Marshall Faulk traded to Rams for 2nd & 5th.

[dave mcbride]

You are right trading McCoy has never been a thread on here... Not even a 20+ page thread.

Do you think the Colts made the right move?

Edited April 7, 2017 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Fair argument, but I respectfully disagree. First, Faulk was significantly better when you consider more than just rushing yards: 19,154 yards from scrimmage for Faulk, 15,610 for James. Faulk had 136 total TDs, James had 91. Faulk's AV (not the be-all end-all, but a decent metric) is 166 to James' 136. Faulk also fumbled 8 fewer times in 28 more games. James does have him on average rushing yards per game, but Faulk's average yards from scrimmage per game is higher. Faulk's career 4.3 yards per carry beats James' 4.0, and Faulk averaged over 5 yards/carry 3 times, whereas James' career high was 4.6.

 

Second, you're not including the opportunity cost of trading Faulk. Yes, they got 2 good players and replaced him pretty well (James was arguably just as good his first 2 years; he just didn't have as much staying power), but they had to use the #4 overall pick to replace Faulk. If they had instead kept Faulk, they presumably would have drafted one of the other consensus top prospects - Torry Holt or Champ Bailey. Would you rather have Mike Peterson and Brad Scioli or one of Torry Holt or Champ Bailey? I'd understand if you still prefer Peterson/Scioli, but I'd rather have the borderline Hall of Famer at WR or CB than 2 role players, one of whom left after his rookie contract.

 

Oh, as an afterthought, the contract stuff doesn't sway me much either, since this was before the days of the rookie cap. Edge James actually made more in each of his first 3 years than Faulk did in that same time span - i.e., the Rams payed less for 3 years of MVP-caliber Faulk than the Colts did for almost-as-good James. It wasn't till Faulk got a new deal in 2002 that he overtook James.

 

 

That's the mic drop.

 

Bad deal by Polian.......careless use of assets that cost them down the line.

[Heavy Kevi]

You're a sensitive one. If that upsets you so much then I might suggest avoiding direct sunlight until your skin thickens a tad. Also, avoid spicy foods like white bread and milk as they may upset your delicate constitution.

 

Tenured members here are still taking crap for threads they started 5 years ago or longer and you want to whine about one month and comment not even directed toward you? Tell Buffalo Barbarian about your one month statute of limitations.

 

Thanks for all the tips about how to navigate TBD. It means a lot to me coming from someone with an illustrious posting history such as your own, but a sensitive guy like you should probably concern yourself with your own budding reputation.

Gee, kettle, you are awfully black, said the pot.

 

Some of you "tenured members" (as if that freakin matters) like to pretend like some of us are sensitive because we respond to your (collective) delusions of superiority. That, in itself is laughable. Once you folks realize we are all Bills fans here to talk about the same things it will be much easier to carry on real football talk. You will find enough Bills related things to disgree on, of that I am sure.

 

But I guess I should just tuck my tail until I reach your suggested "illustrious posting history". Lol I don't get my self worth from a post count.

[papazoid]

shady was last seasons best player on team

 

I love 2nd round picks.........and you could save a bunch of money doing it....

 

 

but I still wouldn't.....shady is a superstar

[bbb]

Well that was a pretty horrible trade for Indy so not sure I want the Bills to use that as a model. Not to mention the prospect of spending the #10 pick to replace the guy we just traded for a 2d round pick + Ed Wang doesn't seem very appealing.

 

The weird thing for me was back in '93, I was flying to Boston for the Bills-Pats game. Polian didn't fly with the team and I ended up sitting next to him in the airport when our flight was delayed. He indulged me for at least an hour, talking football. At one point, he said that kid Faulk at San Diego State - he is the real deal................And, then 5 or 6 years later, he has him, and trades him away right away!

[dave mcbride]

That's the mic drop.

 

Bad deal by Polian.......careless use of assets that cost them down the line.

Really? Say what you you will about Polian, but all he did was win. He had a policy of dealing with disgruntled players under contract--my way or the highway. How did it cost them down the line? They were great or near-great for the next dozen seasons, only failing to get to more Super Bowls because they were out-coached by BB a couple of times (they still got to 2 in an 11 year period). James was an integral part of some great teams. Mike Peterson had a very good career too, although his best seasons were with Jax.

 

Also, In his first two seasons, James was BETTER - and not insignificantly so - than Faulk had been for the Colts. The Colts were better too, going from 3-13 in Faulk's last season to 13-3 in James' first season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JameEd00.htm

 

James had three seasons in which his AV was twenty-freaking-one.

Edited April 7, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

Shotgunner Shhhhhhh...

 

 

"But I guess I should just tuck my tail until I reach your suggested "illustrious posting history". Lol I don't get my self worth from a post count."

 

 

You're never gonna get a seat at the cool kids table acting like that. I don't want you to ruin your reputation. Fall in line, dang it!

[NoSaint]

Gee, kettle, you are awfully black, said the pot.

 

Some of you "tenured members" (as if that freakin matters) like to pretend like some of us are sensitive because we respond to your (collective) delusions of superiority. That, in itself is laughable. Once you folks realize we are all Bills fans here to talk about the same things it will be much easier to carry on real football talk. You will find enough Bills related things to disgree on, of that I am sure.

 

But I guess I should just tuck my tail until I reach your suggested "illustrious posting history". Lol I don't get my self worth from a post count.

My friend- the issue is you are walking into an existing party and trying to bring hot takes instead of settling in and figuring out the conventions that have come to be in the room.

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

Keeping up with the BBMBers?

No Saint.. Hot takes like what you see quoted above?

 

I've sat here and minded my P's and Q's, contributed to conversations and have had productive interactions with new and old members. The issue that continually pops up of late is that there is somehow a recommended manner of conducting yourself here. It's either agree with OP's who've been here a long time or your opinion is wrong and not worth reading, especially if your joining date was in the past month.

The blanket "must be a BBMBer" is exclusionary and not productive to the overarching goal which is to discuss the Bills in an open forum. It's tiresome, petty and in a lot of ways sad. For some they may feel silenced by the dog pile mentality of Vet Members who've decided to fight a useless battle against new comers who haven't learned their place in this hierarchy. Frankly, I don't take these little barbs personally and find it amusing but it does tend to detract from the OP's purpose. So this will be the last I speak of it in this thread. Rest assured however, I won't be silenced by a few bad apples that treat their reputation here like a d*** pump for Lil Peter. This isn't Mitch and Murray's playground, put the brass balls away, noones impressed. Coffee is for everyone. Learn to share.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Eric Moulds on my A**

[Alphadawg7]

Would something like this interest you, or make the Bills better in the long term? McCoy for a 2nd and a 5th like this trade? They have Gillisee and could take McCaffrey at 10 or trade down a little and get an extra pick. Not saying I want it to happen, but I feel something is up with McCoy and you never know what McDermott wants.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/04/16/sports/pro-football-colts-trade-faulk-to-rams.html

 

Ok, so you want to trade one of the best RB's in the league to get back a 2nd round pick just so we can draft a RB at 10? Is this a serious post?

 

Let me just showcase what you just proposed in the form of a Trade that includes the trade and draft pick used to get McCaffery:

We trade: McCoy and our first round pick, 10th overall.

We get back: McCaffery, a 2nd round pick, and a 5th round pick.

 

So you seem to think McCaffery and a 2nd rounder (who cares about the 5th) is more valuable than McCoy and a first rounder? Any GM making that trade should be shot on site.

[Bill from NYC]

The Rams' line was a LOT better than Indy's; Pace was better by far than any o-lineman playing for the Colts throughout the Manning era.

Dave I am not splitting hairs. R.Rich doesn't agree (he picks Walter Jones) but Orlando Pace, at the top of his game, was the best blocker I ever saw.

 

That said, Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows were a GREAT pair of offensive tackles. Glenn wasn't as good as Pace but he was only a step below imo, and Meadow was an excellent RT. The Colts had some blockers.

 

Jmo brother.

[row_33]

Thought this was breaking news for a sec!!!

 

Reminded of the time Larry King was brought to NBC for "THE INSIDERS" to demonstrate his total genius on sports stuff. So he was such a tool that his writers sabotaged him and he led off with heavy drumbeats for Kyle Macy getting traded AND YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

 

Trouble was Kyle had been traded 2 weeks earlier, so much for that horrible INSIDERS talk on NBC.

[Elite Poster]

I'll mark you down as a "maybe"

 

Now that was funny.

[Jauronimo]

No Saint.. Hot takes like what you see quoted above?

 

I've sat here and minded my P's and Q's, contributed to conversations and have had productive interactions with new and old members. The issue that continually pops up of late is that there is somehow a recommended manner of conducting yourself here. It's either agree with OP's who've been here a long time or your opinion is wrong and not worth reading, especially if your joining date was in the past month.

The blanket "must be a BBMBer" is exclusionary and not productive to the overarching goal which is to discuss the Bills in an open forum. It's tiresome, petty and in a lot of ways sad. For some they may feel silenced by the dog pile mentality of Vet Members who've decided to fight a useless battle against new comers who haven't learned their place in this hierarchy. Frankly, I don't take these little barbs personally and find it amusing but it does tend to detract from the OP's purpose. So this will be the last I speak of it in this thread. Rest assured however, I won't be silenced by a few bad apples that treat their reputation here like a d*** pump for Lil Peter. This isn't Mitch and Murray's playground, put the brass balls away, noones impressed. Coffee is for everyone. Learn to share.

The OP that I responded to joined the board over a decade ago. He's not a newcomer. You've completely missed the joke.

 

You introduced reputation to the discussion with those oh so topical Pauly Shore comments (which were particularly funny as they immediately followed a suggestion to get new material). I'm not telling you I'm important here and should be treated with any kind of deference, but I do have an established and shameful posting history which is well documented, and the irony of a new member telling me how I'm being perceived and warning me of the reputation I'm earning was not lost on me. Again, you've missed the point.

 

Speaking of useless and misguided battles, the fight not to be silenced has got to top the list. Who is silencing you and how are they doing it? Whoever they are, they are failing miserably. You're all TBDers now. You're not being forced to wear a scarlet letter. The only way I or anyone else would know who is a former member of BBMB is if you continue to self-identify as one and #BBMBLivesMatter at every inconsequential joke.

[BADOLBILZ]

Really? Say what you you will about Polian, but all he did was win. He had a policy of dealing with disgruntled players under contract--my way or the highway. How did it cost them down the line? They were great or near-great for the next dozen seasons, only failing to get to more Super Bowls because they were out-coached by BB a couple of times (they still got to 2 in an 11 year period). James was an integral part of some great teams. Mike Peterson had a very good career too, although his best seasons were with Jax.

 

Also, In his first two seasons, James was BETTER - and not insignificantly so - than Faulk had been for the Colts. The Colts were better too, going from 3-13 in Faulk's last season to 13-3 in James' first season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JameEd00.htm

 

James had three seasons in which his AV was twenty-freaking-one.

 

 

Forget about Faulk for a minute.

 

Would you even trade Champ Bailey to get Edge James?

 

That was a dumb choice in itself.

 

It later got repeated when Champ got traded for Clinton Portis.

 

James was not part of the team in Indy that finally won a SB.........Bailey was still a superstar then and LONG after.

 

Now add Faulk into the deal and it's just awful.......awful.

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

The OP that I responded to joined the board over a decade ago. He's not a newcomer. You've completely missed the joke.

 

You introduced reputation to the discussion with those oh so topical Pauly Shore comments (which were particularly funny as they immediately followed a suggestion to get new material). I'm not telling you I'm important here and should be treated with any kind of deference, but I do have an established and shameful posting history which is well documented, and the irony of a new member telling me how I'm being perceived and warning me of the reputation I'm earning was not lost on me. Again, you've missed the point.

 

Speaking of useless and misguided battles, the fight not to be silenced has got to top the list. Who is silencing you and how are they doing it? Whoever they are, they are failing miserably. You're all TBDers now. You're not being forced to wear a scarlet letter. The only way I or anyone else would know who is a former member of BBMB is if you continue to self-identify as one and #BBMBLivesMatter at every inconsequential joke.

You win bud... Your 12 months of Dareus calendar is in the mail. I'd recommend months July and August, Speedo season.

[iinii]

Is this an anti-Whaley thread?

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Forget about Faulk for a minute.

 

Would you even trade Champ Bailey to get Edge James?

 

That was a dumb choice in itself.

 

It later got repeated when Champ got traded for Clinton Portis.

 

James was not part of the team in Indy that finally won a SB.........Bailey was still a superstar then and LONG after.

 

Now add Faulk into the deal and it's just awful.......awful.

Forget about super bowls for a second because that just gets into mike vanderjagt and belichick territory. The colts were dominant when James played there.

 

Also, the Redskins actually improved after the Bailey Portis trade, and the Broncos didn't really improve with Bailey over the next half decade relative to where they were with Portis. I'm not saying the Redskins improved because of the trade, but all this diminishing of RB importance runs up against the fact that both James and Portis were elite-level performers. We're not talking Trent Richardson or CJ Spiller here.

Edited April 7, 2017 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

Forget about super bowls for a second because that just gets into mike vanderjagt and belichick territory. The colts were dominant when James played there.

 

Also, the Redskins actually improved after the Bailey Portis trade, and the Broncos didn't really improve with Bailey over the next half decade relative to where they were with Portis. I'm not saying the Redskins improved because of the trade, but all this diminishing of RB importance runs up against the fact that both James and Portis were elite-level performers. We're not talking Trent Richardson or CJ Spiller here.

 

My point regarding the SB was that his career was OVER FAST by comparison to Bailey. Most people probably forget that Joseph Addai was the lead RB on that squad.

 

You know my opinion of using top assets on a RB........doesn't equate to success......... and it really wasn't working then either.

 

Last rushing champ to win a SB was in the 90's.

[dave mcbride]

 

My point regarding the SB was that his career was OVER FAST by comparison to Bailey. Most people probably forget that Joseph Addai was the lead RB on that squad.

 

You know my opinion of using top assets on a RB........doesn't equate to success......... and it really wasn't working then either.

 

Last rushing champ to win a SB was in the 90's.

 

I hear you about longevity at the rb position, but i also bet you that the longevity at the cb position is no greater. Lose a step and you start getting toasted regularly. Bailey was a real anomaly - if memory serves, he never made the shift to safety at all. That was impossible to predict in 04, when that trad went down. Portis did average 1100 yards per season over a 9 year career, and in a couple of those seasons he missed a lot of games because of injury.

Edited April 7, 2017 by dave mcbride