Mets fans?

[Gugny]

12 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Braves crew said he hasn't finished 5 innings in 11 straight heading into last night, and they quipped he was well on his well to #12, and lamenting the sudden downfall of a great pitcher

 

 

 

I think Matt Harvey being a great pitcher is even more of a myth than David Wright being a great 3B.

 

Harvey has never pitched 200 inning in a season and he's never struck out 200 batters in a season.  Like so many Mets pitchers before him, he's turned out to be Mr. Potential.  He's only pitched two complete seasons in his six year career, the last of which being 2013.

 

He could have been great, but he never got there.  It's a sad story, because I really like the guy.

[row_33]

Harvey was a big deal for a short term

 

That puts him in a rare atmosphere these days

 

But pales in comparison to immortals

 

 

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Harvey was a big deal for a short term

 

That puts him in a rare atmosphere these days

 

But pales in comparison to immortals

 

 

 

Yeah, man.  When he was healthy (physically and mentally), he was awesome to watch.  Unfortunately, it's clear (clearer, now) that he depends solely on velocity.  He's not good enough to adjust his game without it.  If he's not throwing high 90s, he's basically throwing batting practice pitches.  But when he was throwing high 90s, he was dominant ... but it was only for a couple years.

[row_33]

at least he got through 5 perilous innings last night

 

 

 

they let him bat in the top of the 5th

 

[SinceThe70s]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Yeah, man.  When he was healthy (physically and mentally), he was awesome to watch.  Unfortunately, it's clear (clearer, now) that he depends solely on velocity.  He's not good enough to adjust his game without it.  If he's not throwing high 90s, he's basically throwing batting practice pitches.  But when he was throwing high 90s, he was dominant ... but it was only for a couple years.

 

When he first hit the scene he had both the talent and the swagger and showed the potential for greatness. Now he has neither. 

 

Does anyone remember when Mets fans big fear was him signing with the Yankees when he hit free agency? 

 

I don't know what the roster implications are, but when Vargas is ready he should be sent to the minors. I don't think he'll ever resurrect his career with the Mets, best bet for him is a fresh start with a new team. Unfortunately his value is probably so slow it doesn't pay for the Mets to cut ties. 

[SmokinES3]

2 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

When he first hit the scene he had both the talent and the swagger and showed the potential for greatness. Now he has neither. 

 

Does anyone remember when Mets fans big fear was him signing with the Yankees when he hit free agency? 

 

I don't know what the roster implications are, but when Vargas is ready he should be sent to the minors. I don't think he'll ever resurrect his career with the Mets, best bet for him is a fresh start with a new team. Unfortunately his value is probably so slow it doesn't pay for the Mets to cut ties. 

I would imagine he can refuse the assignment with his service time... I'd take nothing for him at this point. Losing him is a net positive in team morale and in the clubhouse. Nobody has ever had a good word to say about him as a teammate that I've heard...

If he figures it out elsewhere, good for him.

Edited April 20, 2018 by SmokinES3

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, SmokinES3 said:

I would imagine he can refuse the assignment with his service time... I'd take nothing for him at this point. Losing him is a net positive in team morale and in the clubhouse. Nobody has ever had a good word to say about him as a teammate that I've heard...

If he figures it out elsewhere, good for him.

 

I second this emotion.

[Misterbluesky]

His comments were piss poor when he was asked about a possible move to the pen,no way would he take a plane out west.I won't pound on the guy because of his drunk/love triangle bs meltdown...but when he comes out and pretty much tells everybody he's not a team player...he can pack his bags and kiss my as s.Trade him,he's done.

[SinceThe70s]

6 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

His comments were piss poor when he was asked about a possible move to the pen,no way would he take a plane out west.I won't pound on the guy because of his drunk/love triangle bs meltdown...but when he comes out and pretty much tells everybody he's not a team player...he can pack his bags and kiss my as s.Trade him,he's done.

 

Pretty sure I saw a quote from Calloway on the broadcast crawl tonight to the effect "We're here to help players get better. As long as they're willing to be helped". Anyone see that? I was half watching and did a double take. If I got the quote and context right that's damning. And it's a +1 on the Calloway ledger. 

 

EDIT: they just mentioned this on the broadcast. Calloway said he's had success sending pitchers to the bullpen and bringing them back as starters....but the player has to be willing. 

 

Message sent. Love that Calloway did it publicly. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by SinceThe70s

[Gugny]

16 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

His comments were piss poor when he was asked about a possible move to the pen,no way would he take a plane out west.I won't pound on the guy because of his drunk/love triangle bs meltdown...but when he comes out and pretty much tells everybody he's not a team player...he can pack his bags and kiss my as s.Trade him,he's done.

 

10 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Pretty sure I saw a quote from Calloway on the broadcast crawl tonight to the effect "We're here to help players get better. As long as they're willing to be helped". Anyone see that? I was half watching and did a double take. If I got the quote and context right that's damning. And it's a +1 on the Calloway ledger. 

 

EDIT: they just mentioned this on the broadcast. Calloway said he's had success sending pitchers to the bullpen and bringing them back as starters....but the player has to be willing. 

 

Message sent. Love that Calloway did it publicly. 

 

Agree with both of you.  Awesome bullpen performance last night. Bruce owes Thor a dinner!

[row_33]

17 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

His comments were piss poor when he was asked about a possible move to the pen,no way would he take a plane out west.I won't pound on the guy because of his drunk/love triangle bs meltdown...but when he comes out and pretty much tells everybody he's not a team player...he can pack his bags and kiss my as s.Trade him,he's done.

 

He’s a star in his mind and has to realize the party is over.

 

Stars in obvious decline who have sucked it up and reinvented themselves included Eckersley, Mike Flanagan, Sabathia and Frank Tanana.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by row_33

[Tierlifer]

1st - Gonzo with a 0 WAR and 770's ops
SS - Rosario with a 0 WAR and a 660's ops
LF - Cespy with a 0 WAR and a 650's ops
RF - Bruce with a -.3 WAR and a 610's ops
C - 0 WAR and a 580's ops

That's below avg production from 5 of the 8 positions (primary starters).....and yet, the team has the best record in the National League.

Imagine when these guys (mainly Bruce and Cespy) level off to their career norms....and Rosario gets some time under his belt and starts to develop (fingers crossed) and we hopefully make a move at C......1st base, who knows

and hell, the pitching staff hasn't even shaken out just yet.

Either that start was a fluke, or this team could be something special when it starts firing on all cylinders

57 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

He’s a star in his mind and has to realize the party is over.

 

Stars in obvious decline who have sucked it up and reinvented themselves included Eckersley, Mike Flanagan, Sabathia and Frank Tanana.

 

 

Good list. I am sure there are more...doing yard work today and will try and think of more. Great point!!

[row_33]

Flanagan and Tanana played pivotal roles in the 80s in games involving Toronto during their many post-peak useful seasons.

 

 

And the monetary rewards for getting extra years out of your arm are miraculous today

 

 

[Gugny]

Fun fact:  If the Mets play .500 ball for the rest of the season, they'll end up with 90 wins.

[SmokinES3]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

He’s a star in his mind and has to realize the party is over.

 

Stars in obvious decline who have sucked it up and reinvented themselves included Eckersley, Mike Flanagan, Sabathia and Frank Tanana.

 

 

Bartolo Colon is a fantastic example off the top of my head. 

[SinceThe70s]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Fun fact:  If the Mets play .500 ball for the rest of the season, they'll end up with 90 wins.

 

Not true...and I only know this because I was checking it out last week. 9 over is 85-76. Still a good point. Average baseball the rest of the way keeps us in the mix.

[row_33]

4 hours ago, SmokinES3 said:

Bartolo Colon is a fantastic example off the top of my head. 

 

Has he changed from flamethrower to junkman?

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Not true...and I only know this because I was checking it out last week. 9 over is 85-76. Still a good point. Average baseball the rest of the way keeps us in the mix.

 

Currently 14-5, so they've played 19 games.

 

162-19 = 143 games left.

 

143/2 = 71.5 (I rounded to 71).

 

Playing .500 over the next 143 games would result in 71 wins.  Add that to the 14 wins they currently have and that would total 85.

 

I wrote that out to show how I got 90.  And I soon recognized that I stupidly added 71 to 19, instead of 14.

 

So you are correct, sir!  Playing .500 for the rest of the season would get them to 85 wins.  Not good enough.  So please disregard my previous post!

 

LET'S GO METS!

 

 

 

 

[SmokinES3]

Harvey is going to the pen per Callaway...

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Has he changed from flamethrower to junkman?

Yep. In his Cy Young days 15 years ago he was 95-97 with hard slider to match. Big strikeout guy.

[Gugny]

Pathetic loss.  That's two in a row that the bullpen !@#$ed deGrom over on.

[SmokinES3]

27 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Pathetic loss.  That's two in a row that the bullpen !@#$ed deGrom over on.

Callaway did some weird ****...Not pinch running for Wilmer, not pinch hitting for Lobaton and then double switching Nido in? That's only a couple of them...

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, SmokinES3 said:

Callaway did some weird ****...Not pinch running for Wilmer, not pinch hitting for Lobaton and then double switching Nido in? That's only a couple of them...

 

I agree, Smoke.  But this one came down to Ramos and Familia throwing strikes against subpar hitters and trusting their defense.  It was disgraceful.

[SmokinES3]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree, Smoke.  But this one came down to Ramos and Familia throwing strikes against subpar hitters and trusting their defense.  It was disgraceful.

Agreed. They are getting used an awful lot though. Did you happen to see Harvey shown sitting in the pen right before the game started? Talk about a picture being worth a thousand words...

[Gugny]

12 minutes ago, SmokinES3 said:

Agreed. They are getting used an awful lot though. Did you happen to see Harvey shown sitting in the pen right before the game started? Talk about a picture being worth a thousand words...

 

He's a bum.  They need to cut that cord, ASAP.

[SinceThe70s]

Reyes had a nice night

 

WRT the bullpen, here's where I play both sides of the fence. I didn't like bringing in Famiglia for a 4 out save. He just hasn't done it that much. He's used to coming  in to a clean 9th. At the same time, I grew up in an era where "closers" were expected to come in to high stress situations, put out the fire and finish the game. Which seems more in line with Calloway's plan.  

 

Overall I agree with you guys, bullpen management is a big concern. Not sure where I stand yet. Should Famiglia adapt or be coddled? And what's better for the arms?

 

Always end on a high note: Little League team is 3-0. There's a kid on the team that is a HUGE Mets fan. He is pint size. Ripped a bases loaded line drive to get us rolling mid-game  and me (coaching first) and him did the pepper shaker thing. He's a gamer.  Good times.

 

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

Reyes had a nice night

 

WRT the bullpen, here's where I play both sides of the fence. I didn't like bringing in Famiglia for a 4 out save. He just hasn't done it that much. He's used to coming  in to a clean 9th. At the same time, I grew up in an era where "closers" were expected to come in to high stress situations, put out the fire and finish the game. Which seems more in line with Calloway's plan.  

 

Overall I agree with you guys, bullpen management is a big concern. Not sure where I stand yet. Should Famiglia adapt or be coddled? And what's better for the arms?

 

Always end on a high note: Little League team is 3-0. There's a kid on the team that is a HUGE Mets fan. He is pint size. Ripped a bases loaded line drive to get us rolling mid-game  and me (coaching first) and him did the pepper shaker thing. He's a gamer.  Good times.

 

 

I honestly don't put this one on bullpen management.

 

I trust Callaway, given his experience as a MLB pitcher and successful pitching coach, to manage them properly.  I do think he's dipped into the well a bit more than I'd have liked; but I see that as him recognizing the importance of a good start and seizing the moments early on.

 

He's been stretching the starters and they've done incredibly well.  Ironically, it seems to be those games in which the bullpen has not done their job.

 

Four pitch walks, nursing a 3-0 lead in the 8th inning, are inexcusable.  That's not being overworked.  That is simply sucking.  

 

Familia is going to have his stinkers.  This one was poorly timed.  I'm not crazy about 4 out saves, either.  But he should be able to perform better than that.

 

It's been a bad series.  We need to end it with a win this afternoon, rest on the day off, then set our sights on STL.  The key in that series is to not let Molina beat us.  Without that little bastard, we sweep them all day long.  Keep the ball down, hope he chases or grounds out and be okay with a walk.  We have to stop letting him crush the ball against us.

 

Let's Go Mets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

EDIT:  That is awesome that the team is 3-0 and the salt/pepper shaker thing must have been a riot!!!

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Gugny

[Misterbluesky]

Vargas still has the green light for Vegas tonight.Fingers Crossed!

[Misterbluesky]

Vargas got touched...3 earned in 4 innings.

[Gugny]

9 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Vargas got touched...3 earned in 4 innings.

 

Looks like a couple walks may have done him in.  Would be nice to know if the hits were solid shots or bloops.  Either way ... he'll be better than Harvey.

 

Player	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA
Jason Vargas (L, 0-1)	4.0	3	3	3	2	4	0	6.75

[SmokinES3]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Looks like a couple walks may have done him in.  Would be nice to know if the hits were solid shots or bloops.  Either way ... he'll be better than Harvey.

 

Player	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA
Jason Vargas (L, 0-1)	4.0	3	3	3	2	4	0	6.75

Look at last year, I believe he led the AL in wins with 18, even with a sub 4 ERA... That would generally suggest he knows how to pitch to minimize the damage. If the offense ever gets going he'll give up 3-4 which is a helluva lot better than Harvey's 6 runs... Never should have traded him 8 or 9 years ago IMO...

[Gugny]

Gritty win last night.

 

Bottom line:  Matz needs to have a solid season in order for the Mets to compete.  Wheeler just isn't good.  If we can get solid, complete seasons from Jake, Thor and Matz, the Mets are in business.

 

Sandy needs to go out and get a real catcher, IMO.  Every single catcher on our roster sucks.

 

Harvey looked decent out of the bullpen, but I fear that it won't last - primarily because of his attitude ... and his flat fastball that he keeps floating over the middle of the plate.

 

I still see the Mets as a real-deal team who is easily good enough to win the pennant.

 

Let's Go Mets!

[Misterbluesky]

18 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Gritty win last night.

 

Bottom line:  Matz needs to have a solid season in order for the Mets to compete.  Wheeler just isn't good.  If we can get solid, complete seasons from Jake, Thor and Matz, the Mets are in business.

 

Sandy needs to go out and get a real catcher, IMO.  Every single catcher on our roster sucks.

 

Harvey looked decent out of the bullpen, but I fear that it won't last - primarily because of his attitude ... and his flat fastball that he keeps floating over the middle of the plate.

 

I still see the Mets as a real-deal team who is easily good enough to win the pennant.

 

Let's Go Mets!

I thought for sure the Realmuto trade would have happened by now,guess the price was to high? I was darn ready to call it a early night when we were down 4-1..nice to see the bombs by the big boys. The Bruce HR  challenge was odd.

[SmokinES3]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Gritty win last night.

 

Bottom line:  Matz needs to have a solid season in order for the Mets to compete.  Wheeler just isn't good.  If we can get solid, complete seasons from Jake, Thor and Matz, the Mets are in business.

 

Sandy needs to go out and get a real catcher, IMO.  Every single catcher on our roster sucks.

 

Harvey looked decent out of the bullpen, but I fear that it won't last - primarily because of his attitude ... and his flat fastball that he keeps floating over the middle of the plate.

 

I still see the Mets as a real-deal team who is easily good enough to win the pennant.

 

Let's Go Mets!

I agree. The level of grit has improved multitudes over last year. Wheeler still may improve with all the time he's missed. He didn't completely implode, so there's that. 

Hopefully that was Bruce breaking out, he can carry a team when he's hot.

[Gugny]

Just now, Misterbluesky said:

I thought for sure the Realmuto trade would have happened by now,guess the price was to high? I was darn ready to call it a early night when we were down 4-1..nice to see the bombs by the big boys. The Bruce HR  challenge was odd.

 

Glad you brought this up.

 

Two points of observation with regard to last night's challenges:

 

1.  The first hit of the game (Kid Conforto) was challenged.  They reviewed that FOREVER!!!  There needs to be a clock on reviews.  If they have to look at it that long, there is NO WAY it can be conclusive enough to overturn.  Give them 30 seconds.  If they can't overturn it by then, let the call stand.

 

2.  The Cardinals should be fined for challenging the Bruce homerun.  Complete waste of time.

 

3.  The first base ump should ALSO be fined because he could have not granted the challenge .... IF HE WAS WATCHING THE BAG.

[Misterbluesky]

28 minutes ago, SmokinES3 said:

 

Hopefully that was Bruce breaking out, he can carry a team when he's hot.

Now if we could only jump start Conforto...

[SmokinES3]

3 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Now if we could only jump start Conforto...

I think he's ok. He's getting on base, I think the rest will come. This team really could win a pennant like Gug said.. Great to see Cabrera healthy for once too, he's been sensational.

[Misterbluesky]

1 minute ago, SmokinES3 said:

I think he's ok. He's getting on base, I think the rest will come. This team really could win a pennant like Gug said.. Great to see Cabrera healthy for once too, he's been sensational.

Conforto needs to start putting the wood to the ball imo.He's looking for free passes,pitchers are going to figure that out sooner than later. Hey...Cabrera looks great..seems really comfortable and is having fun doing it. We have a solid record and haven't even clicked on all cylinders yet.. this team is fun to watch,no doubt about it.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Conforto needs to start putting the wood to the ball imo.He's looking for free passes,pitchers are going to figure that out sooner than later. Hey...Cabrera looks great..seems really comfortable and is having fun doing it. We have a solid record and haven't even clicked on all cylinders yet.. this team is fun to watch,no doubt about it.

 

Cabrera went into last night's game as the league leader in batting average (he's 3rd today).  What a nice start.

 

Conforto will be fine.  I think being patient at the plate is a good thing and he'll get more aggressive as the year progresses.  The kid's got it.

 

This is a very fun team to watch, I agree!!

[Tierlifer]

Looks like during the 2 off days was the time the pecking order of the bullpen changed.  Mickey is still a work in progress but he seems to be adapting well at each sign of adversity of hiccup and that is a good sign.  Wish Swarzak did not suffer a setback because that will make the pen that much better and deeper.  My guess is Memorial Day.

 

 

Stole one in STL last night! What  win..I made it up for the entirety of that one too. Set up with Noah and Jake in the next 2 to at least take the series. I love how tomorrow is an afternoon game so we can focus completely on the draft tomorrow night.

 

Vargas comes back Saturday and even if he pitches to career norm it's a huge upgrade from Harvey. He will really stabilize the rotation. I think last nights outing by Wheeler is what we will get from him occasionally. It happens. No way I want Lugo coming out of his role to enter the rotation. He's too valuable where he is now. 

 

LGM!

 

 

Edit: Whoops its Matz tonight. My bad. Not Noah. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Tierlifer

[Gugny]

Guys ... we're in trouble.  We are down to two decent starters in Syndergaard and deGrom.   Amazingly, this doesn't concern me as much as our catcher situation.  Whether it's Nido or Lobaton, that position in the batting order is an automatic out.  So that means we have two automatic outs (pitcher) out of every nine at bats.

 

Matz, like Harvey and Wheeler, can't get through the batting order more than once before being predictable and, subsequently, rocked.

 

Sewalt looked really good in the spring.  I loved to see him tonight .... until he pitched.  Holy ****.  We have a bunch of batting practice pitchers.

 

And three errors (so far)???  Time to tighten the screws, Mick.