Estro Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think a sign of good GM's is having a keen sense of what a players worth is and knowing when to let a player walk. I have my concerns about Doug Whaley, like many on this board, but I do have to give him credit where credit is due. Given the benefit of hindsight, he has done a stellar job of not overpaying many payers that have left Buffalo: Jairus Byrd Andy LeVitre C.J. Spiller Da'Norris Searcy All 4 of these players were very good to good players for the Bills, but you can't keep everybody. I view Gilmore as the same type of player. He's good, not great. He's not a blue chip, game breaking defensive player, IMO....and if you're not that, then you don't deserve the money Gilmore will get on the open market. I will be happy to take the 3rd round comp pick in '18 and save the $14M-$15M per year and redistribute that money elsewhere on the roster. Side note: I'll also be happy to take the 5th round comp. pick in '18 for losing Robert Woods. Woods defines an average/replaceable player. There is no reason to pay a player like that $5+M per year, which is what I think he will get on the open market. If we could get him back for $3.5M or so per year I'd be okay with that, but I think he and the Bills both know that won't be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 Won't we get a comp pick for him? Doesn't always seem like he wants to win. Doesn't seem like much of a loss.yes we will get a comp pick. Big part of the formula is size of the deal he signs, so should be a 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think a sign of good GM's is having a keen sense of what a players worth is and knowing when to let a player walk. I have my concerns about Doug Whaley, like many on this board, but I do have to give him credit where credit is due. Given the benefit of hindsight, he has done a stellar job of not overpaying many payers that have left Buffalo: Jairus Byrd Andy LeVitre C.J. Spiller Da'Norris Searcy All 4 of these players were very good to good players for the Bills, but you can't keep everybody. I view Gilmore as the same type of player. He's good, not great. He's not a blue chip, game breaking defensive player, IMO....and if you're not that, then you don't deserve the money Gilmore will get on the open market. I will be happy to take the 3rd round comp pick in '18 and save the $14M-$15M per year and redistribute that money elsewhere on the roster. Side note: I'll also be happy to take the 5th round comp. pick in '18 for losing Robert Woods. Woods defines an average/replaceable player. There is no reason to pay a player like that $5+M per year, which is what I think he will get on the open market. If we could get him back for $3.5M or so per year I'd be okay with that, but I think he and the Bills both know that won't be happening. Doug Whaley offered Byrd and Spiller contracts. Spiller got offered $5M per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Doug Whaley offered Byrd and Spiller contracts. Spiller got offered $5M per. So.....he offered them LESS than other teams would offer. Maybe that was the actual market rates, or closer to it. Never know how they might have been used in another system. What have we learned by that? Doug offered them less than others. You also want to blame him for offering less? Blame him for who he signs, AND for who he doesn't. I like the consistency. Maybe you deserve the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 So.....he offered them LESS than other teams would offer. Maybe that was the actual market rates, or closer to it. Never know how they might have been used in another system. What have we learned by that? Doug offered them less than others. You also want to blame him for offering less? Blame him for who he signs, AND for who he doesn't. I like the consistency. Maybe you deserve the job! They pulled Spillers contract when they traded for McCoy. CJ was on the set on NFL Network live when it got announced, kind of awkward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) So.....he offered them LESS than other teams would offer. Maybe that was the actual market rates, or closer to it. Never know how they might have been used in another system. What have we learned by that? Doug offered them less than others. You also want to blame him for offering less? Blame him for who he signs, AND for who he doesn't. I like the consistency. Maybe you deserve the job! Spiller's market rate has always been and is zero dollars to anyone with eyes. The only reason we didn't sign CJ was because drunk Chip called Doug. Edited March 1, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I view Gilmore as the same type of player. He's good, not great. He's not a blue chip, game breaking defensive player, IMO....and if you're not that, then you don't deserve the money Gilmore will get on the open market. I will be happy to take the 3rd round comp pick in '18 and save the $14M-$15M per year and redistribute that money elsewhere on the roster. Side note: I'll also be happy to take the 5th round comp. pick in '18 for losing Robert Woods. Woods defines an average/replaceable player. There is no reason to pay a player like that $5+M per year, which is what I think he will get on the open market. If we could get him back for $3.5M or so per year I'd be okay with that, but I think he and the Bills both know that won't be happening. Whether you get comp picks depends of number of free agents you sign and "quality". If Bills concentrated on not getting free agents at end of contracts but those cut, etc. Bills might get cuts but they have not been successful recently and they have a lot of players they need to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Spiller's market rate has always been and is zero dollars to anyone with eyes. The only reason we didn't sign CJ was because drunk Chip called Doug. Thank you, "zero dollars" offers great insight into your objectivity and the value of the post. Mr Has Always Been a Zero Dollar Guy had a pretty damn good year or two, when used right. But, again, you refuse to be anything but a negative extremist. Consistency is comforting to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I'd have franchised Gilmore and put Dareus on the trading block to try to free up some cash. I have no confidence that Dareus won't find a way to get suspended before September. Gilmore is a professional. Marcel not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 The comp pick formula is technically secret, as it's never been revealed. Per Over the Cap: As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula. https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Thank you, "zero dollars" offers great insight into your objectivity and the value of the post. Mr Has Always Been a Zero Dollar Guy had a pretty damn good year or two, when used right. But, again, you refuse to be anything but a negative extremist. Consistency is comforting to some. CJ Spiller hasn't scored a rushing TD since 2013. Hasn't played a full season since 2012. Has been on 4 teams in 3 years. Hasn't rushed for over 300 yards since 2013. His highest YPC has been 3.8, in 2014. He has had Payton, Chan and whoever Seattle's OC is for the last 3 years and has been absolute trash. He sucks. The flash in the pan year was exactly that. Why this is still a discussion is crazy. Edited March 1, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I would let this guy run out of here. Just draft the next CB this year in the 1st. FA CBs are too expensive. They have good depth in this draft at CB. If they let Woods walk they need to use that pick on WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Looking at my top 50 board for Buffalo, that seems where the value for them at CB in this draft, lots of strong zone corners in that range. Dre Kirkpatrick in FA could be a solid get IMO at a much lesser cost than Gilmore and be a better schematic fit? I like this approach. Get Kirkpatrick (or even bring back Cockrell) and draft Adams in the 1st. No need to break the bank to the tune of 14 million a year on a guy (Gillmore) who only plays 100% sometimes. Use the savings to keep other important guys (Zac Brown, Gory, even keeping R. Woods would be nice). Edited March 1, 2017 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I am of the view that a 1st round CB is the safest least bustable position to draft. Maybe only a guard would be safer. Ask Cleveland about CB bust in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) CJ Spiller hasn't scored a rushing TD since 2013. Hasn't played a full season since 2012. Has been on 4 teams in 3 years. Hasn't rushed for over 300 yards since 2013. His highest YPC has been 3.8, in 2014. He has had Payton, Chan and whoever Seattle's OC is for the last 3 years and has been absolute trash. He sucks. The flash in the pan year was exactly that. Why this is still a discussion is crazy. Maybe, if you'd read more closely, due to your hyperbole. ZERO? He's worth less than some UDFA signed to return kicks? You wouldn't have him for "zero dollars"? Money we could spend elsewhere? He showed more than those guys, and used properly could have continued to do something more than he did. I'm not a staunch CJ supporter by ANY means, but just not big on constant haters. Edited March 1, 2017 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Whether you get comp picks depends of number of free agents you sign and "quality". If Bills concentrated on not getting free agents at end of contracts but those cut, etc. Bills might get cuts but they have not been successful recently and they have a lot of players they need to sign. You're absolutely right, which is why it's imperative that the Bills sign 1 less FA than they lose to ensure they lock in that 3rd round comp. pick. Losing a quality player hurts. Saving all the cash helps. Getting a free 3rd round comp. pick really helps. Let's hope One Bills Drive fully understands that and doesn't blow the free 3rd round comp. pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Maybe, if you'd read more closely, due to your hyperbole. ZERO? He's worth less than some UDFA signed to return kicks? You wouldn't have him for "zero dollars"? Money we could spend elsewhere? He showed more than those guys, and used properly could have continued to do something more than he did. I'm not a staunch CJ supporter by ANY means, but just not big on constant haters. Man oh man, you gotta relax. He's worth vet minimum, okay? I was exaggerating because he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I disagree with this move but at the same time am ok with it. Hope they use the savings on Z. Brown. If they lose Woods, Lorax, and and Brown too they might get 3 picks next year. Of those four Brown is the most valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On the one side this board is populated by people who think they can do OBD better or others who believe themselves to be great journalists. Either way it's just an opinion. As far as Gilmore goes....next man up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Doug Whaley offered Byrd and Spiller contracts. Spiller got offered $5M per.Thank you! It's weird but this is like a "dirty little secret" to a huge number of Bills Fans. Whaley tried hard to keep both of these sub-par players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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