3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Not if he can still play which, last time I saw, he could. And at a high level. I look for him to restructure. I hope it is his decision to make. Seems he got plenty of reps last season. Who is the upgrade? and why exactly do i need the money ? I loathe corporate themes. If he wants to play, he know he must be willing, again to restructure. Which in this case means a pay cut on this years hit. I have been open and honest. Kyle Williams has been my favorite Bill for nearly a decade. so my bias is full on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You cut a player if he's not worth the money you're paying him or if you have a cheaper replacement that plays at a similar level. He's missed very little time over his total career and when he's not in there's a clear drop off as we clearly experienced in 2015. Someone is going to have to convince me Washington is there before I'm comfortable cutting Kyle. I also think in a traditional 4-3 Kyle is at his best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I might be wrong but I think he wants to get this team he has sweat blood and tears for for over a decade there. I don't think getting there just to say he has been with another team would hold any interest at all for him. If the Bills say "no more" my guess is Kyle hangs them up. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You cut a player if he's not worth the money you're paying him or if you have a cheaper replacement that plays at a similar level. He's missed very little time over his total career and when he's not in there's a clear drop off as we clearly experienced in 2015. Someone is going to have to convince me Washington is there before I'm comfortable cutting Kyle. I also think in a traditional 4-3 Kyle is at his best. I think that the new Coaches defensive scheme being brought in has him excited. to just "pin the ears" in the middle is my favorite D. Both Kyle and mD do that very very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Kyle is 34 and in the last year of his contract. He has played well and it goes without saying he's at or near the top of the list of most Bills fans favorite players. The Bills could save 8.3 million the cap by cutting him. Yet, I don't think its a Fred Jackson situation. Kyle may have been the best player on the defense last year. The cap number looms large, however, as we approach FA with more than a few holes and new systems on both sides of the ball to accomodate. I am torn. I want him to just restructure or take a pay cut, but not sure how realistic that is. How dare you!!!! turn in your fancard and your post total goes to zero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 If we extend him, don't we lower his hit? Cutting Freddy proved to be a mistake and he was on his last legs. Cutting a leader who is still playing at a high level would be crazy. He may be the best influence on Dareus in that locker room. Cutting Kyle would lose us Dareus, potentially. You can indeed lower his hit. This year. But you then raise it down the road. Extensions with very low cap hits in the first year aren't generally a great idea for 34 year old players. Cap aside, no way you cut Kyle Williams. It would cause major problems. But we're in cap trouble, most particularly if we keep Tyrod. I absolutely hate this idea, and I'd give it a pretty high chance of happening if we do say yes to Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) I'm not sure that's a feather in his cap, based on how Dareus has behaved over the years. But i'd like to restructure and keep him. Cut Graham and Carpenter saves us around $9mm right there. Restructure a few more deals and we have plenty of space. $9 mill is overstating it for Graham and Carpenter. You calculate the money you save by taking the money you'd give him this year in salary and roster bonuses, workout bonuses etc and then subtracting the dead cap money that will hit the cap if you cut the guy. For Carpenter that's $2.4 mill (minus what you have to give the new place kicker) and then for Graham it's $3.775 mill minus $1.6 mill, around $2.1 mill from what I can tell on Spotrac. They might draft a safety so replacing him might not be expensive but the roster spot will have to be filled. They could delay a bit of the dead cap costs to next year but even ignoring that the savings won't be anywhere near $9 mill. We don't have plenty of space. And yeah, we can kick the problem down the road a bit by re-structuring a few deals. But that is emphatically NOT what a team that won seven games last year and not expecting to truly hit their stride for two or three years should do. You don't shovel the driveway by moving the snow near the garage a few feet towards the street, but dumping it in the driveway, and that's what re-structuring in large numbers does. It just means you have to deal with the same problem again very soon. Re-structuring has it's place. But if it's the main part of a team's strategy, especially when they're already in such cap trouble, that team is headed for bigger trouble down the road. Edited February 25, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 If it's a rebuild year, then the Bills should move on. If they are pushing for a playoff appearance, then they should keep him. It would be a $6.8M savings if his roster bonus is not paid and he's in the last year of his deal. The Bills will probably ask him to take a pay cut rather than just release him. Notably, there's no one on the team that can fill his spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I can't say yes or no until the QB situation is resolved. That being said, I'd vote restructure. He's still a valuable piece of our defense imo. Everyone keeps talking about restructure. Restructuring usually does not usually mean taking less money. It just means kicking the money into guarantees. Which means mortgaging the future, for the now. That might be justifiable if this team had any kind of reasonable chance of winning the Superbowl this year. But it does not. It just extends the cap misery for another year and it just turns into an endless string of misery year after year, as you can't build a real winning team again that year because of past decisions. It is cumulative damage. It it short-sided and is the type of blind vision that will get us to 20 years of consecutive failure. Getting rid of Kyle to keep Tyler is a horrible decision. I would take Kyle and his positive effect on the team any day over TT. We are not going to make it to the Superbowl this year no matter who we have a QB. In order to get a Superbowl achieving QB, you would have no cap space left to fill in the multiple holes we have in the rest of the supporting positions required on the team surrounding that QB capable of achieving a Superbowl . Get rid of TT's crippling contact, and get a reasonably priced bridge QB. Start building the team THIS YEAR for a run next year, or the year after. Before the 20th year of futility arrives. We don't have plenty of space. And yeah, we can kick the problem down the road a bit by re-structuring a few deals. But that is emphatically NOT what a team that won seven games last year and not expecting to truly hit their stride for two or three years should do. You don't shovel the driveway by moving the snow near the garage a few feet towards the street, but dumping it in the driveway, and that's what re-structuring in large numbers does. It just means you have to deal with the same problem again very soon. Re-structuring has it's place. But if it's the main part of a team's strategy, especially when they're already in such cap trouble, that team is headed for bigger trouble down the road. Finally some cap sense on the board. The sentimental side of me say's keep Kyle & hopefully he retires as a Bill. But....we all know what the Hoodie would have done maybe even 2 years ago...that's why the **Pats are the best. Agree the Hoodie is one of the greatest winning coaches, not that I will ever like him,lol. But I think you are wildly underestimating the impact of having that certain player named Tom has had on that winning record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Kyle is 34 and in the last year of his contract. He has played well and it goes without saying he's at or near the top of the list of most Bills fans favorite players. The Bills could save 8.3 million the cap by cutting him. Yet, I don't think its a Fred Jackson situation. Kyle may have been the best player on the defense last year. The cap number looms large, however, as we approach FA with more than a few holes and new systems on both sides of the ball to accomodate. I am torn. I want him to just restructure or take a pay cut, but not sure how realistic that is. Savings from cutting KW would be $6.8M. The other $1.5M would still count as dead money. $8.3M is the total cap charge if he's kept at his current deal. Still would be a significant savings though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Savings from cutting KW would be $6.8M. The other $1.5M would still count as dead money. $8.3M is the total cap charge if he's kept at his current deal. Still would be a significant savings though. Carpenter and Graham would be another $6.175 million. Nearly 13 million to cut those three. Enough to pay Gilmore or cover picking up the option on Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 lets see....should we cut one of the two higher paid guys who is actually playing over the level of his contract ??? umm...no (the other is Incognito) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Carpenter and Graham would be another $6.175 million. Nearly 13 million to cut those three. Enough to pay Gilmore or cover picking up the option on Taylor. I really don't think that's a good way to look at things. For starters, cutting Carp would yield $2.4M in cap space, but about that much would get spent on a new kicker anyway so there really wouldn't be a net gain. You can look at the KW situation similarly as a quality replacement would cost real money. But kickers are pretty interchangeable and comparable talent is easy to find. Quality DTs are a different story. IF the Bills are confident they can replace KW in FA with a younger player of similar ability, then they'd be better off doing that. Let's face it, KW is done after this season and it'd be much better to have a long term solution in place than to be scrambling to find one next offseason. Keeping him at a reduced salary this season while getting a rookie's feet wet is another good way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Kyle is & has been my favorite Bill for years and has earned his contract 100%. Let's keep him as is. Go Bills!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Kyle Williams would a be a Hall of Famer if he played for a better team. Played so many roles, in so many different defenses, on so many bad teams and was a beast no matter where you put him. Need pressure on the QB 10 sack seasons, need to eat up blockers hes pushing the guard and center 5 yards back every play. Truly one of the most underrated players in the league, I hope he goes to a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Carpenter and Graham would be another $6.175 million. Nearly 13 million to cut those three. Enough to pay Gilmore or cover picking up the option on Taylor. From what I can see, it'd be $4.5, not $6.175. We can push a bit of that dead money back a bit, but it doesn't disappear. And cutting Kyle Williams saves $5.3 mill, for a total of $9.8 mill saved. And both Carpenter and Graham are going to need to be replaced by guys not now on the roster. Kyle maybe replaced by Adolphus Washington and maybe Douzable or Bryant as a platoon guy in terms of position, but not production. Still, we wouldn't have to replace Kyle by bringing any new salaries in. But Graham and Carpenter are going to have to be replaced and it will cost money. Not enough money for Gilmore or Taylor. We're in a serious situation with the cap. Particularly if we pick up Taylor's option without getting significant real money savings, we're going to have to make some very painful cuts. I'd guess that Gilmore would be the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I feel for what Kyle has done for the team as far as a leader & the consummate Bill keep him & pay him because we have another way to save much more money & get a draft pick or 2 . Marcel Darius is 1 screw up away from having a 10 game suspension & during that time he will still count against the cap Send him to SF for a top pick that way we wouldn't have to face him 2 times a year . The guy is good but if he screws up the entire team pays for it & he comes back to give some BS I'm sorry sob story plays good for a couple games they forget about it then on to the next suspension . Bellicheck would have him on the first train out to the west coast for draft picks . Seeing as this year is defense heavy the Bills could get another player as good with less baggage !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 From what I can see, it'd be $4.5, not $6.175. We can push a bit of that dead money back a bit, but it doesn't disappear. And cutting Kyle Williams saves $5.3 mill, for a total of $9.8 mill saved. And both Carpenter and Graham are going to need to be replaced by guys not now on the roster. Kyle maybe replaced by Adolphus Washington and maybe Douzable or Bryant as a platoon guy in terms of position, but not production. Still, we wouldn't have to replace Kyle by bringing any new salaries in. But Graham and Carpenter are going to have to be replaced and it will cost money. Not enough money for Gilmore or Taylor. We're in a serious situation with the cap. Particularly if we pick up Taylor's option without getting significant real money savings, we're going to have to make some very painful cuts. I'd guess that Gilmore would be the first. This year is tough salary wise. But pinching pennies with Kyle is just wrong for me. Maybe right for business. But f the profit margin. He is key to getting ROI with the Bills. Bills or No one Kyle !!! Kyle Williams would a be a Hall of Famer if he played for a better team. Played so many roles, in so many different defenses, on so many bad teams and was a beast no matter where you put him. Need pressure on the QB 10 sack seasons, need to eat up blockers hes pushing the guard and center 5 yards back every play. Truly one of the most underrated players in the league, I hope he goes to a contender. I agree till you said contender. I just don't see him rolling that way I feel for what Kyle has done for the team as far as a leader & the consummate Bill keep him & pay him because we have another way to save much more money & get a draft pick or 2 . Marcel Darius is 1 screw up away from having a 10 game suspension & during that time he will still count against the cap Send him to SF for a top pick that way we wouldn't have to face him 2 times a year . The guy is good but if he screws up the entire team pays for it & he comes back to give some BS I'm sorry sob story plays good for a couple games they forget about it then on to the next suspension . Bellicheck would have him on the first train out to the west coast for draft picks . Seeing as this year is defense heavy the Bills could get another player as good with less baggage !! and eat the dead money ? Imagine what it is like to be the other DT, as Kyle is. MD getting paid getting accolades as some great player ( when he is one the field ) and getting paid soo much more than the guys he gives it his all every play and every day i would imagine. Must kinda suck. I would walk over and kick MD in the nuts on my way out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I feel for what Kyle has done for the team as far as a leader & the consummate Bill keep him & pay him because we have another way to save much more money & get a draft pick or 2 . Marcel Darius is 1 screw up away from having a 10 game suspension & during that time he will still count against the cap Send him to SF for a top pick that way we wouldn't have to face him 2 times a year . The guy is good but if he screws up the entire team pays for it & he comes back to give some BS I'm sorry sob story plays good for a couple games they forget about it then on to the next suspension . Bellicheck would have him on the first train out to the west coast for draft picks . Seeing as this year is defense heavy the Bills could get another player as good with less baggage !! I'm not suggesting that Dareus is a bad dude. Because I don't believe that. But what is known about him based on his behavior over the past few years is that he is immature and undisciplined. He is the type of player who has to be closely supervised and hectored in order to keep him in line. He has deservedly lost the benefit of the doubt with his teammates and organization. What is his value on the market knowing that he is hanging by a thread for future severe disciplinary action because of prior conduct? Not as great as many people believe. Dareus has all pro talent. Interior pass rushers are a highly prized commodity. But his history of trouble has diminished his value on the market. I'm hoping that with a new coaching staff he can start fresh and more consistently actualize his abundant talents. From what I understand the defensive line coach is an arse kicking former Marine who is not going to allow any player he is coaching to be a wayward player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I'm not suggesting that Dareus is a bad dude. Because I don't believe that. But what is known about him based on his behavior over the past few years is that he is immature and undisciplined. He is the type of player who has to be closely supervised and hectored in order to keep him in line. He has deservedly lost the benefit of the doubt with his teammates and organization. What is his value on the market knowing that he is hanging by a thread for future severe disciplinary action because of prior conduct? Not as great as many people believe. Dareus has all pro talent. Interior pass rushers are a highly prized commodity. But his history of trouble has diminished his value on the market. I'm hoping that with a new coaching staff he can start fresh and more consistently actualize his abundant talents. From what I understand the defensive line coach is an arse kicking former Marine who is not going to allow any player he is coaching to be a wayward player. Why would Dareus care? What will the Bills do ? Sit him for being late to meetings or not attentive? I don't think they will. Maybe they could take the mini fridge he inherited from whats his puss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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