dubs Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 So making all votes equal will disenfranchise the middle of the country? Thats funny Point one - There is a reason why we have the electoral college. It's not just because in the 1700s it was easier than counting individual votes. Contrary to popular believe, we don't live in a pure democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. It was set up specifically this way to provide check and balances and multiple levels, within the federal government and between federal government and the states. It's a pretty genius framework that ensures the vast majority of the country from an area standpoint is not de-facto governed by the population centers of the coasts. Point two - the election was not "hacked". No votes were changes, no machines were tampered with. Point three - it always amazes me when people cite the popular vote as evidence that Hillary would have won a popular election if that was in fact the system we used to elect the president. Not a single person can project what would happen. The best barometer for that would be the battleground states, which trump won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Trump said during the campaign that if I voted for Hillary, I'd be stuck with a criminal president under constant federal investigation from day one. Turns out he was right. I voted for Hillary and I'm stuck with a criminal president under constant federal investigation since day one. Most people understood that being stuck with a criminal president under constant federal investigation was inevitable. It's only massive !@#$ing retards like you that think either of these two was a saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Most people understood that being stuck with a criminal president under constant federal investigation was inevitable. It's only massive !@#$ing retards like you that think either of these two was a saint. I understand hating Trump. I don't for one second understand worshiping Bill's lovely wife Bluto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'd also like it if Trump's SPOILED ROTTEN KIDS stayed the f___ out of world affairs.... He's just following the Clinton precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 He's just following the Clinton precedent. Trump's 10-year old son was dragged into it by comedians gleefully joking about murdering him, how is that his fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 As I understand, he needs to report any foreign government overtures to FBI He needs to report foreign associations as part of the security clearance process. Until he fills out his SF86 and gets his clearance, as a private citizen he can talk to whoever he pleases. Even if working for a political campaign. And even then...there's some ambiguity as to what a "foreign association" is. Business associates certainly are; I'm not sure a single 20 minute chat with an attorney is (though any travel to a foreign country must be reported.) Trump's 10-year old son was dragged into it by comedians gleefully joking about murdering him, how is that his fault? That's not "world affairs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Without the electoral college why would a candidate ever care about, or visit, any other state but NY, CA, TX and FL? Why do you want to disenfranchise a huge swath of the population? Do you really want to leave the matters of governance soley to NY, CA? Because that's what would happen. First off, people that saying Hillary won the popular vote is about as useful as a hockey team losing even though they had more shots. Both campaigns new the rules going in so I'm sick of hearing about it. I've always been back and forth on this issue. On the one hand, we're a Republic and not a Democracy and forcing a president to actually pretend to give a crap about middle America and have campaign rallies in New Hampshire makes the people there feel like the president actually cares about them. On the other hand, my vote counting less than a person from Iowa's has always bothered me. I'd be even more ticked off voting in NY if I was a Republican given NYC is a liberal bastion. Plus, Hawaii and California have the same number of Senators so it's not like the smaller states aren't adequately represented. There's not a perfect system, but I still think the electoral college needs to stay just so I can see pictures like this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 LOL, Those are pretty much the only states they care about NOW! As the US becomes more populous, the strangle-hold the "big" states have on the process is diminished.... Every vote should count... If it did, we wouldn't be taking in the circus we currently have now. You're talking about a massive change not only to our electoral process, but also the basic design of our Federal government away from what the Founders intended. You need to be aware that the President doesn't represent you. He is not intended to represent you. He is the figurehead representative of our Federal Government, The only person who represents you at the Federal level is your Congressperson in the House. The President represents the blended interests of the States comprising the Federal Government. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Yes, we will have the Constitution changed immediately to meet your demands because you don't like the way the last election turned out. (wait till they find out that there is an Amendment process, they'll insist that get changed immediately to suit their demands...) Edited July 12, 2017 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 You're talking about a massive change not only to our electoral process, but also the basic design of our Federal government away from what the Founders intended. You need to be aware that the President doesn't represent you. He is not intended to represent you. He is the figurehead representative of our Federal Government, The only person who represents you at the Federal level is your Congressperson in the House. The President represents the blended interests of the States comprising the Federal Government. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 This is pretty much how it shakes out anyway. This is just not true not matter how you try to spin it. Saying it's true only shows how little you understand the constitution and the American electoral process itself. And I'll point it out again, if you're worried someone is going to rob your house do you think it's best to burn your house to the ground first? Is that an effective solution to the potential problem? Of course not. But it's what you're suggesting. I think a popular vote is more representative of a true democracy.... 48.5% of the popular vote should have trumped Trumps 46.5% Yes, we live in a republic founded on representative government... And yes, in that system sometimes millions of votes just don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Yes, we will have the Constitution changed immediately to meet your demands because you don't like the way the last election turned out. (wait till they find out that there is an Amendment process, they'll insist that get changed immediately to suit their demands...) "We didn't get our way, so we need to change things IMMEDIATELY! I'm sure there will be no future repercussions from our short-sightedness." -Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I think a popular vote is more representative of a true democracy.... 48.5% of the popular vote should have trumped Trumps 46.5% Yes, we live in a republic founded on representative government... And yes, in that system sometimes millions of votes just don't count. So, again, your solution to protect America from hackers is to fundamentally alter the form of government we are living under. Isn't that doing the hackers' job for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Yes, we live in a republic founded on representative government... And yes, in that system sometimes millions of votes just don't count. Which was the specific intent of the Founding Fathers. Changing it now would be a disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 This is pretty much how it shakes out anyway. I think a popular vote is more representative of a true democracy.... 48.5% of the popular vote should have trumped Trumps 46.5% Yes, we live in a republic founded on representative government... And yes, in that system sometimes millions of votes just don't count. Again, the President doesn't represent you. Further, he's not supposed to represent you. That's a feature, not a flaw. That's the reason for the Electoral College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 This is pretty much how it shakes out anyway. I think a popular vote is more representative of a true democracy.... 48.5% of the popular vote should have trumped Trumps 46.5% Yes, we live in a republic founded on representative government... And yes, in that system sometimes millions of votes just don't count. Thus demonstrating that we're not a true democracy, we're a democratic republic. You want true democracy? Read Thucydides and get back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 He's just following the Clinton precedent. ONE incredibly well-mannered brat who knew her place... Is different from five loudmouth, entitled, political know-nothings born to a guy who made his LIVING ripping people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The obvious solution: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 ONE incredibly well-mannered brat who knew her place... Is different from five loudmouth, entitled, political know-nothings born to a guy who made his LIVING ripping people off. Her place being...ordering the !@#$ing Navy around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Her place being...ordering the !@#$ing Navy around? She's a rear admiral for a reason, ain't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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