Foles will be a FA after Chiefs unlikely to pick up option

[C.Biscuit97]

so are we tanking?

It's hilarious how people act like if we don't sign Taylor, we are tanking. He's been the Qb of 8 and 7 wins. EJ and Thad won 6. Orton and EJ won 9. JP won 7. Trent won 7. Let's stop pretending like Taylor is some wild difference maker in our record.

 

That said, I have little interest in Foles. Draft 2 qbs, sign an old vet backup, & let them battle it out in camp. And if they crap the bed, it's much better to go 4-12 than 7-9 or 8-8, like we do every year no matter who the qb is.

[Maury Ballstein]

It's hilarious how people act like if we don't sign Taylor, we are tanking. He's been the Qb of 8 and 7 wins. EJ and Thad won 6. Orton and EJ won 9. JP won 7. Trent won 7. Let's stop pretending like Taylor is some wild difference maker in our record.

 

Thank you.

 

I cringe every time someone says it's a tankjob if we don't keep the 25th best passer.

 

Such a ridiculous statement

[The Frankish Reich]

It's hilarious how people act like if we don't sign Taylor, we are tanking. He's been the Qb of 8 and 7 wins. EJ and Thad won 6. Orton and EJ won 9. JP won 7. Trent won 7. Let's stop pretending like Taylor is some wild difference maker in our record.

 

That said, I have little interest in Foles. Draft 2 qbs, sign an old vet backup, & let them battle it out in camp. And if they crap the bed, it's much better to go 4-12 than 7-9 or 8-8, like we do every year no matter who the qb is.

Agreed. It reminds me of the Dolphins last year. Tanny out, capable career backup Matt Moore in. Arguably they were better with Moore. But to be honest, kind of a wash. Tanny/Tyrod do some things Moore/Foles (or Orton?) can't do, but Moore/Foles/Orton do some things Tanny/Tyrod haven't been able to do, at least not with any consistency. They're all deeply flawed NFL QBs, but any of them can, in the right situation, lead a team to the playoffs and a one-and-done.

 

Having said that, if Foles is considerably cheaper/brings a shorter commitment, count me in. He's been worse than Tyrod the last couple years, but Tyrod never came close to what Foles did in 2013.

[BADOLBILZ]

Only 25 players are currently under contract in 2018. That $70M or so has to be used for 28 more active players, all of the practice squad and any players on IR.

 

Correct........but irrelevant.

 

Currently, the Bills have only 21 players that consume over $1M in cap space(they have 45 under contract)...........that's not uncommon, the back half of the roster is usually minimum contracts.........the bottom 28 of the roster will eat up less space than the Bills GAIN in the inevitable cutting those older players that I mentioned.

 

So basically.........even with Tyrod you would be looking at starting out with $70M plus in cap room for 2018.

 

 

 

 

Now, they could spend some future money this offseason..........or even pass on Taylor and otherwise be too cheap in FA again, like last offseason............and have $80M+ in cap room going into 2018 and basically nobody on their own roster to spend it on.

 

Keep in mind.......the 2013 draft class would normally be up for pay this year and next.......but EJ, Woods and Kiko aren't going to be getting big extensions from the Bills.

 

Then you have Sammy.......he's up after the 2018 season so they COULD try to ink him ahead.......but they can't do it this year and they can wait until after 2018 and franchise him for the 2019 season if they wish. Kujo and Preston Brown are unlikely to get second contracts from that draft either.

 

Then there is no 2015 first round pick to pay in 2019...........Darby and Miller haven't looked like they will be in any danger of getting franchised after 2018 either.

Edited February 20, 2017 by #BADOL

[JohnC]

 

Correct........but irrelevant.

 

Currently, the Bills have only 21 players that consume over $1M in cap space(they have 45 under contract)...........that's not uncommon, the back half of the roster is usually minimum contracts.........the bottom 28 of the roster will eat up less space than the Bills GAIN in the inevitable cutting those older players that I mentioned.

 

So basically.........even with Tyrod you would be looking at starting out with $70M plus in cap room for 2018.

 

 

 

 

Now, they could spend some future money this offseason..........or even pass on Taylor and otherwise be too cheap in FA again, like last offseason............and have $80M+ in cap room going into 2018 and basically nobody on their own roster to spend it on.

 

Keep in mind.......the 2013 draft class would normally be up for pay this year and next.......but EJ, Woods and Kiko aren't going to be getting big extensions from the Bills.

 

Then you have Sammy.......he's up after the 2018 season so they COULD try to ink him ahead.......but they can't do it this year and they can wait until after 2018 and franchise him for the 2019 season if they wish. Kujo and Preston Brown are unlikely to get second contracts from that draft either.

 

Then there is no 2015 first round pick to pay in 2019...........Darby and Miller haven't looked like they will be in any danger of getting franchised after 2018 either.

So what you are basically saying is that by drafting so poorly in a number of consecutive years that you benefit from a cap standpoint because your drafted players are not worth keeping and spending on when their contracts are up? Or another way of saying it is that there is an upside from being so inept.

 

The repeated poor drafting is at the core why this is a failed franchise. Because of the disproportionate misses when drafting the talent base is shrunk and you don't have to deal with the more expensive second contracts. The Bills should have the motto: Being Dumb is actually Being Smart.

[BADOLBILZ]

So what you are basically saying is that by drafting so poorly in a number of consecutive years that you benefit from a cap standpoint because your drafted players are not worth keeping and spending on when their contracts are up? Or another way of saying it is that there is an upside from being so inept.

 

The repeated poor drafting is at the core why this is a failed franchise. Because of the disproportionate misses when drafting the talent base is shrunk and you don't have to deal with the more expensive second contracts. The Bills should have the motto: Being Dumb is actually Being Smart.

 

 

Yeah, that's kinda' the way it's worked out.

 

Not coincidentally, there was a lot of "drafting for need" in those picks..........and while not all busts.....they simply haven't materialized into front-line players.

 

And the problem is that tons of team have a lot of cap room..........so not having to issue second contracts to most of the 2013/2014/2015 draft classes doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to make good use of that money in FA.

 

In short, they f'd up their cap situation for 2016 and 2017........but the long term outlook is that there is not much to spend on in-house.

 

They probably should try to field a winner by filling needs this year thru free agency..........trade back, acquire some more picks if they can find partners and NOT draft for need. BPA's at impact positions early and values mid-late.

 

Some people think not tanking means Romo........I don't.

 

But it's not a great time to tank with a Nick Foles or Brian Hoyer......because it's a veteran team and the long term supporting young talent is not in place right now for a quick turnaround from tanksville.

 

If they try to use the draft to patch holes again they will likely be in the same boat and just end up with another bunch of JAGs to show for early picks.

 

Either way they will need FA help infused in the next couple of offseasons and getting good FA talent to join a bad team is not a good place to be shopping from in FA.

 

Tyrod isn't franchise but he is the best option this year and probably next.

[CommonCents]

Another interesting FA is AJ Bouye. Smaller sample size but I'd pay him over Gilmore in a heartbeat.

[JohnC]

 

 

Yeah, that's kinda' the way it's worked out.

 

Not coincidentally, there was a lot of "drafting for need" in those picks..........and while not all busts.....they simply haven't materialized into front-line players.

 

And the problem is that tons of team have a lot of cap room..........so not having to issue second contracts to most of the 2013/2014/2015 draft classes doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to make good use of that money in FA.

 

In short, they f'd up their cap situation for 2016 and 2017........but the long term outlook is that there is not much to spend on in-house.

 

They probably should try to field a winner by filling needs this year thru free agency..........trade back, acquire some more picks if they can find partners and NOT draft for need. BPA's at impact positions early and values mid-late.

 

Some people think not tanking means Romo........I don't.

 

But it's not a great time to tank with a Nick Foles or Brian Hoyer......because it's a veteran team and the long term supporting young talent is not in place right now for a quick turnaround from tanksville.

 

If they try to use the draft to patch holes again they will likely be in the same boat and just end up with another bunch of JAGs to show for early picks.

 

Either way they will need FA help infused in the next couple of offseasons and getting good FA talent to join a bad team is not a good place to be shopping from in FA.

 

Tyrod isn't franchise but he is the best option this year and probably next.

After reading your post/s (excellent analysis) I get the suspicion that there is going to be an overhaul of the roster. It certainly is not going to be at the Cleveland level but greater than what most of us are expecting. The timing is right because we are starting with a new coaching staff bringing in players that fit their scheme and character preferences.

 

With respect to Tyrod being our best option for this year and next as an outsider in the DC/MD area I have heard numerous reports that TT is not in the Bills plans and he will be let go. Is it true? I can't say but what I do know is that TT and his representation aren't foolish enough to make contract concessions when there is a market for him outside of Buffalo.

 

I have not been too critical of Whaley. Compared to his unqualified predecessors he is an upgrade. Now I'm starting to become stricter in my assessments. His roster has major gaps and the cap to talent ratio is out of balance. His drafting over the past few years is in general mediocre and the accumulated mistakes from those drafts have weighed this franchise down.

 

Where I am harsh on him and getting harsher by the day is due to the fact that he has failed to adequately address the qb position. His lack of urgency or creativity in focusing on that priority has frustrated me more than any other issue.

 

The Bills roster as it is presently constituted is a 7-9 to 8-8 caliber of team. We're stuck in the muck of mediocrity with no quick fix. One solution is to go Trumpian and divert attention: Blame Jerry Sullivan and the BN. That will buy time until the next new plan is introduced.

[purple haze]

 

I would expect the Bills to have an interest in Nick Foles when he becomes a FA, to at least fill EJ's spot. He is a good fit for WCO, and familiar with David Culley. Drafted in Philly and later signed in KC by Andy Reid, who mcdermott trusts. Went to playoffs with Shady in Philly, who had a 1300 yards the year he played with foles.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785994/article/chiefs-likely-will-pass-on-nick-foles-option?campaign=Twitter_atn

As a backup, playing for cheap? Fine. As a potential starter? Yuck. For me there are three options:

 

1. Keep Tyrod and draft a QB early.

 

2. Let Tyrod walk, trade for Romo and draft a QB.

 

3. Let Tyrod walk, draft a QB early, let him and Cardale battle it out for starter. Sign a

vet for cheap to be around just in case.

 

Under no circumstances do I want to see the Bills sign a Hoyer, McCown or Foles to be a "bridge" starting QB. If they aren't keeping Tyrod or getting a legit starter (Romo), then go young and let them learn on the field.

 

No matter who they line up, they will be relying on the same paradigm to win games as they

have been subscribing to. Defense, ST's and run the rock.

[Marty McFly]

 

As a backup, playing for cheap? Fine. As a potential starter? Yuck. For me there are three options:

 

1. Keep Tyrod and draft a QB early.

 

2. Let Tyrod walk, trade for Romo and draft a QB.

 

3. Let Tyrod walk, draft a QB early, let him and Cardale battle it out for starter. Sign a

vet for cheap to be around just in case.

 

Under no circumstances do I want to see the Bills sign a Hoyer, McCown or Foles to be a "bridge" starting QB. If they aren't keeping Tyrod or getting a legit starter (Romo), then go young and let them learn on the field.

 

No matter who they line up, they will be relying on the same paradigm to win games as they

have been subscribing to. Defense, ST's and run the rock.

 

This.

[gr8billsfan]

I'd take Foles anyday over TT to be honest. He had a good run w/ the Eagles.

[Billsman623]

I'd take Foles on a cheaper deal and let Tyrod walk. Draft a kid and groom him for the permanent gig in a year or two max.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

 

Bills expected to cut Tyrod Taylor, start over with Nick Foles

The Buffalo Bills to cut quarterback Tyrod Taylor, "chug along with a Nick Foles-ish" type player in 2017, "and start over," Bleacher Report's Ty Dunne expects.

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/player-news/37355/bills-expected-to-cut-tyrod-taylor-start-over-with-nick-foles

 

 

I am going to say that the worst part of this is that Ty Dunne went over to Bleacher Report. Damn, he used to be good too.

[Bill from NYC]

I have not been too critical of Whaley. Compared to his unqualified predecessors he is an upgrade. Now I'm starting to become stricter in my assessments. His roster has major gaps and the cap to talent ratio is out of balance. His drafting over the past few years is in general mediocre and the accumulated mistakes from those drafts have weighed this franchise down.

 

Where I am harsh on him and getting harsher by the day is due to the fact that he has failed to adequately address the qb position. His lack of urgency or creativity in focusing on that priority has frustrated me more than any other issue.

Indeed

 

Let's face it, Whaley doesn't have a solid plan for this team. He appears to be like a dog chasing his tail. Would you really be surprised if he traded away more picks in this draft? I expect him to.

[ice2145]

Indeed

 

Let's face it, Whaley doesn't have a solid plan for this team. He appears to be like a dog chasing his tail. Would you really be surprised if he traded away more picks in this draft? I expect him to.

I wouldn't be surprised if Whaley makes some moves on draft day. I like the idea of us moving up or down and not just being stagnant like past GM's. Granted, he has made some errors that seem to be inexcusable. However, he has made some pretty good moves as well. Both are well documented. This organization is poorly run and Whaley has to shoulder some of the blame.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

It's hilarious how people act like if we don't sign Taylor, we are tanking. He's been the Qb of 8 and 7 wins. EJ and Thad won 6. Orton and EJ won 9. JP won 7. Trent won 7. Let's stop pretending like Taylor is some wild difference maker in our record.

 

That said, I have little interest in Foles. Draft 2 qbs, sign an old vet backup, & let them battle it out in camp. And if they crap the bed, it's much better to go 4-12 than 7-9 or 8-8, like we do every year no matter who the qb is.

Great point.

[JohnC]

Indeed

 

Let's face it, Whaley doesn't have a solid plan for this team. He appears to be like a dog chasing his tail. Would you really be surprised if he traded away more picks in this draft? I expect him to.

One of my main criticisms of Whaley is that he has a patchwork mentality to roster building rather than a conceptual approach to building a roster. As Badol has smartly observed the short-sighted approach to drafting at the expense of the best talent available is a failed strategy. He acts more like a scout akin to Country Buddy rather than having a road map to building a roster with balanced contracts commensurate with talent level.

 

There is simply no excuse for an organization to go 20 years without a legitimate franchise qb. It's comparable to a baseball GM not dedicating any resources to assembling a pitching staff. Without it you can't compete no matter what else you have done with the roster. It's just stupid. And I'm tired of it.

 

What's odd about this upcoming season is that we don't know what the direction of the franchise is. Is there going to be a mini-rebuild or is the approach going to be the standard patchwork and fix it as you go? The approach that has gotten this franchise nowhere meaningful. What's the qb situation going to be? There will be good prospects in this draft but will this front office act in its normal cowardly way and go with a retread approach? I have no problem with the retread approach if a qb is selected in this draft. My leanings are toward Mahomes but I am open to other players.

 

This is an unsettling time in that we don't know what is being planned. What makes it more unsettling is that this ramshackle organization has never demonstrated an ability to competently execute any plays other than make it up as you go along. It's so sad.

[GunnerBill]

I don't agree that Whaley has no plan. He has explained his plan a couple of times. You need to acquire and then pay premium players at #1 WR, #1 CB, pass rusher, left tackle and Quarterback and then you can afford one additional "playmaker" on each side of the ball.

 

I my view (and others may disagree) in Watkins, Glenn, Hughes, Dareus they have some of those cornerstones and I'd add Gilmore too (because I would not let him walk). McCoy is this roster's 'luxury item' if you want to put it like that.

 

The one thing he hasn't done yet of course is find the Quarterback and it is undoubtedly the case that the clock is ticking on Whaley in terms of finding that guy.

 

In terms of the rest of the roster he has been hamstrung a little by the constant change of systems. There have been some 'need' selections - normally in the 2nd round (Koundjio, Woods, Ragland) and his overall draft record is average. Luckily he has been very adept at finding those scrap heap UFAs at vet minimum which has offset some of the misses on mid to late round system fits - Ross Cockrell comes immediately to mind.

 

Anyway... I am sure Foles is not a long term plan.

[JohnC]

I wouldn't be surprised if Whaley makes some moves on draft day. I like the idea of us moving up or down and not just being stagnant like past GM's. Granted, he has made some errors that seem to be inexcusable. However, he has made some pretty good moves as well. Both are well documented. This organization is poorly run and Whaley has to shoulder some of the blame.

Let's examine two moves by Whaley that brought in two talented players to the roster. Whaley gave up a first round pick to move up a few spots to acquire Watkins in a receiver rich draft year. Watkins is a sterling talent and is capable of being an elite receiver. The problem is that he hasn't had the caliber of qb that can maximize his talent. So the player that was costly was under-utilized. Is that smart and forward thinking? Atlanta gave up a lot of picks to draft Julio Jones. He's one of the best, if not the best, receivers in the game. The Falcons had Matt Ryan at qb so Jones's talents could be exploited to the max.

 

Another example is that Whaley gave out a above market contract to sign Clay. I have no problem with that move because we needed a TE who can go downfield as a receiver. Clay on a team with a good qb can be a very good receiving TE. With the Bills he is neutered because of the caliber of qbing. Again, the talent is wasted so the value is diminished.

 

When judging a GM you have to look at the body of work. Not all moves are going to be successful and not all moves are going to fail. At best I would give him a C grade, and with him I have had a history of being an easy grader. No longer. I'm becoming more stern with him, and that isn't going to change until he adequately addresses the qb position.

[JohnC]

I don't agree that Whaley has no plan. He has explained his plan a couple of times. You need to acquire and then pay premium players at #1 WR, #1 CB, pass rusher, left tackle and Quarterback and then you can afford one additional "playmaker" on each side of the ball.

 

I my view (and others may disagree) in Watkins, Glenn, Hughes, Dareus they have some of those cornerstones and I'd add Gilmore too (because I would not let him walk). McCoy is this roster's 'luxury item' if you want to put it like that.

 

The one thing he hasn't done yet of course is find the Quarterback and it is undoubtedly the case that the clock is ticking on Whaley in terms of finding that guy.

 

In terms of the rest of the roster he has been hamstrung a little by the constant change of systems. There have been some 'need' selections - normally in the 2nd round (Koundjio, Woods, Ragland) and his overall draft record is average. Luckily he has been very adept at finding those scrap heap UFAs at vet minimum which has offset some of the misses on mid to late round system fits - Ross Cockrell comes immediately to mind.

 

Anyway... I am sure Foles is not a long term plan.

What you are essentially saying is that the boat is well-designed with the exception that it has a gaping hole in the bottom. You know as well as I do that the NFL of today is not the NFL of 10-15 years ago. The game is built around the qb. You can have roster flaws and still be successful if you have a franchise qb. You can have a solid roster but without a legitimate franchise qb you go nowhere. It's been that way for years.

 

What's perplexing to the point of being weird is that this organization continues to act almost to the point of indifference toward finding a solution at qb, a solution that will diminish many of the other problems plaguing this clueless organization. Where's the urgency? No one is arguing that finding a franchise qb is easy, because it's not. But this organization has let opportunities go by only to let other teams prosper by our passivity on this issue. It's not only crazy----it is an act of malfeasance.

 

What is the point of making a bold and expensive draft day maneuver to acquire Watkins, a receiver in a receiver rich draft class when you don't have a good enough qb to utilize his sterling talents? If you are going to make a bold move why not do it for a qb who when developed can elevate a roster?

 

As I said in other posts this sleepy front office has had opportunities to select good qb prospects. They let the opportunities slip by to the benefit of other franchises. If an organization has failed for more than a generation one would think that more urgency would be demonstrated to correct the problem that would give you the best opportunity to be successful.

 

With respect to your comment that he has been hamstrung by changing systems and coaches my response is simple and blunt: Bullshiiit! Doug Whaley is the GM. It doesn't matter what fool is coaching his team and what ill-fitting system he is running. The priority for the GM is to acquire a legitimate franchise qb to give his team the best chance to succeed. No more excuses.