FireChan Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I've gone back and forth a lot on the QB debate. But now I've decided. If you cannot say "yes" to this question, you have to dump him. It doesn't have to be a resounding yes, but if you can't say one or the other, you have to dump him. There is no point wasting years on paying a QB you cannot believe will win you a championship and scrambling to put a team around him. You're better off trying to find the next great top 10 QB by playing in the cellar. QB's that I personally think pass this test in no particular order (including ones that already have, so you have to keep them too basically): Brady Rodgers Big Ben Rivers Romo Eli Flacco Dalton Bridgewater Carr Brees Winston Mariota Dak Wentz Newton Smith Palmer Luck Cousins Stafford Ryan QB's that I am iffy on/cannot say Yes: Bradford Cutler McCown Tannehill Bortles Taylor Fitz Kaep Goff Now you may say, "how is Alex Smith in the yes category?" To be honest, I am biased by his recent streak of making the postseason. QB's can get hot and get lucky once they make the dance, and he's shown he can make it repeatedly. If some of the iffy QB's were on that KC team, that list may change, but we can't know that for sure. Obviously lots of those guys are works in progress. Wentz may suck by his next contract, and so could Dak. Goff coul dbe a star in 2 years. But judging today, this is what really matters There's a group of guys that the answer is yes, and a group of guys that you can't answer, and that's how you should dictate who you pay. Good enough to squeak into the playoffs and always being a bridesmaid is not the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'm certain that Johnny Flameout won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Nice. We needed another one of these. My topics stimulate such thought provoking and lively debates that they are each individually considered a precious gift to the TBD community and as such, they are not subject to the multiple threads on the same topic moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 No he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Maybe if he goes to Denver. Otherwise, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Keep Taylor as a bridge till someone better is here. $27.5M next season needs to be replaced by incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Shouldn't the question be whether Taylor will wil ANOTHER Super Bowl? I think he already has a ring with the Ravens. Maybe there should be a third question: will he win a championship as a starter or a backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Who the hell knows? It's a team game. Heck, Matt Ryan is an elite QB, IMO, and I'm not certain that he will ever win a SB in his career. Kelly, Marino, Moon, Fouts...never won a SB. Elite QB play does not necessarily equate to championships, just like having a mediocre "game manager" type QB does not necessarily exclude a team from winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Snafu nailed it. I took the question above to mean as a starter & not a back-up. NEXT Go Bills!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Keep Taylor as a bridge till someone better is here. $27.5M next season needs to be replaced by incentives. If Taylor would rework his deal, then I'd definitely be on board with keeping him as a bridge. But I see him leaving and not looking back if his extension isn't picked up by the Bills. It already looks like there are some hard feelings about week 17 and we aren't likely to be the highest bidder with our cap situation. Some team will way overpay for him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Who the hell knows? It's a team game. Heck, Matt Ryan is an elite QB, IMO, and I'm not certain that he will ever win a SB in his career. Kelly, Marino, Moon, Fouts...never won a SB. Elite QB play does not necessarily equate to championships, just like having a mediocre "game manager" type QB does not necessarily exclude a team from winning a championship. It's not about if he does or not. It's about the belief that he can. Every GM in the NFL believed that guys like Kelly, Marino etc would win a Super Bowl, even if they never had it all come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 There have been plenty of good QBs who don't have a super bowl ring. Some guy named Jim Kelly comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 It's not about if he does or not. It's about the belief that he can. Every GM in the NFL believed that guys like Kelly, Marino etc would win a Super Bowl, even if they never had it all come together. Then the answer is obvious. Yes, I think he CAN win a super bowl in his career. Dilfer, McMahon, Hostetler, and Brad Johnson all won rings. All for reasons other than stellar QB play. And I would take Tyrod over all of those guys in their prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Time for another message from our sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Keep Taylor as a bridge till someone better is here. $27.5M next season needs to be replaced by incentives. Yet his contract only counts 16 million against the cap. The only number that really matters. I believe around the 20th highest QB salary in 2017. I think he's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I've gone back and forth a lot on the QB debate. But now I've decided. If you cannot say "yes" to this question, you have to dump him. It doesn't have to be a resounding yes, but if you can't say one or the other, you have to dump him. There is no point wasting years on paying a QB you cannot believe will win you a championship and scrambling to put a team around him. You're better off trying to find the next great top 10 QB by playing in the cellar. QB's that I personally think pass this test in no particular order (including ones that already have, so you have to keep them too basically): Brady Rodgers Big Ben Rivers Romo Eli Flacco Dalton Bridgewater Carr Brees Winston Mariota Dak Wentz Newton Smith Palmer Luck Cousins Stafford Ryan QB's that I am iffy on/cannot say Yes: Bradford Cutler McCown Tannehill Bortles Taylor Fitz Kaep Goff Now you may say, "how is Alex Smith in the yes category?" To be honest, I am biased by his recent streak of making the postseason. QB's can get hot and get lucky once they make the dance, and he's shown he can make it repeatedly. If some of the iffy QB's were on that KC team, that list may change, but we can't know that for sure. Obviously lots of those guys are works in progress. Wentz may suck by his next contract, and so could Dak. Goff coul dbe a star in 2 years. But judging today, this is what really matters There's a group of guys that the answer is yes, and a group of guys that you can't answer, and that's how you should dictate who you pay. Good enough to squeak into the playoffs and always being a bridesmaid is not the goal. I've gone back and forth a lot on the QB debate. But now I've decided. If you cannot say "yes" to this question, you have to dump him. It doesn't have to be a resounding yes, but if you can't say one or the other, you have to dump him. There is no point wasting years on paying a QB you cannot believe will win you a championship and scrambling to put a team around him. You're better off trying to find the next great top 10 QB by playing in the cellar. QB's that I personally think pass this test in no particular order (including ones that already have, so you have to keep them too basically): Brady Rodgers Big Ben Rivers Romo Eli Flacco Dalton Bridgewater Carr Brees Winston Mariota Dak Wentz Newton Smith Palmer Luck Cousins Stafford Ryan QB's that I am iffy on/cannot say Yes: Bradford Cutler McCown Tannehill Bortles Taylor Fitz Kaep Goff Now you may say, "how is Alex Smith in the yes category?" To be honest, I am biased by his recent streak of making the postseason. QB's can get hot and get lucky once they make the dance, and he's shown he can make it repeatedly. If some of the iffy QB's were on that KC team, that list may change, but we can't know that for sure. Obviously lots of those guys are works in progress. Wentz may suck by his next contract, and so could Dak. Goff coul dbe a star in 2 years. But judging today, this is what really matters There's a group of guys that the answer is yes, and a group of guys that you can't answer, and that's how you should dictate who you pay. Good enough to squeak into the playoffs and always being a bridesmaid is not the goal. I don't know how many games you watch, but I would not place Dalton, Bridgewater, Mariota, Wentz, & Palmer as QB's that are better than TT. Perhaps, some of them might become so, but not at this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Then the answer is obvious. Yes, I think he CAN win a super bowl in his career. Dilfer, McMahon, Hostetler, and Brad Johnson all won rings. All for reasons other than stellar QB play. And I would take Tyrod over all of those guys in their prime. Okay, maybe I'm not explaining this well. Obviously lots of QB's CAN. But it's the belief that they WILL. That belief does not necessarily have to coincide with what actually happens. But the distinction is I believe Blake Bortles COULD win a Super Bowl. I don't believe he WILL. I believed that Kelly/Marino COULD and WOULD eventually win a title and even though they did not, they were good enough that you believed in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) I've gone back and forth a lot on the QB debate. But now I've decided. If you cannot say "yes" to this question, you have to dump him. It doesn't have to be a resounding yes, but if you can't say one or the other, you have to dump him. There is no point wasting years on paying a QB you cannot believe will win you a championship and scrambling to put a team around him. You're better off trying to find the next great top 10 QB by playing in the cellar. QB's that I personally think pass this test in no particular order (including ones that already have, so you have to keep them too basically): Brady Rodgers Big Ben Rivers Romo Eli Flacco Dalton Bridgewater Carr Brees Winston Mariota Dak Wentz Newton Smith Palmer Luck Cousins Stafford Ryan QB's that I am iffy on/cannot say Yes: Bradford Cutler McCown Tannehill Bortles Taylor Fitz Kaep Goff Now you may say, "how is Alex Smith in the yes category?" To be honest, I am biased by his recent streak of making the postseason. QB's can get hot and get lucky once they make the dance, and he's shown he can make it repeatedly. If some of the iffy QB's were on that KC team, that list may change, but we can't know that for sure. Obviously lots of those guys are works in progress. Wentz may suck by his next contract, and so could Dak. Goff coul dbe a star in 2 years. But judging today, this is what really matters There's a group of guys that the answer is yes, and a group of guys that you can't answer, and that's how you should dictate who you pay. Good enough to squeak into the playoffs and always being a bridesmaid is not the goal. I voted No and Yes. Your list is WAY TOO long of people that can win a Super Bowl. He's better and more likely to win than multiple people on the list. There are 7 active QBs who have won a Super Bowl (less than 22% of the league). If you believe that Andy Dalton and his horrible playoff record can, than TT can. Carson Wentz was a below average QB as a rookie and flat bad after a hot start. Palmer's window has closed as well and Rivers & Romo aren't far behind. I'm not buying Bridgewater. The answer is that the franchise tier from Gunner's list can and potentially some of the next generation guys. The game managers need the perfect storm like Flacco got. There needs to be more tiers. You have the 7 guys that have won. You have a handful more that can raise a team to do it (Cam, Ryan, Carr, Stafford). There are a bunch of next generation guys like Jameis and Mariota that look like they are going to be good and you have your game managers (where TT falls). Those guys would need the right team around them. The "will he" or "can he" are two different points. I'd say TT (and Wentz for that matter) are more likely to win a Super Bowl than Palmer and Rivers. Edited January 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I've gone back and forth a lot on the QB debate. But now I've decided. If you cannot say "yes" to this question, you have to dump him. It doesn't have to be a resounding yes, but if you can't say one or the other, you have to dump him. There is no point wasting years on paying a QB you cannot believe will win you a championship and scrambling to put a team around him. You're better off trying to find the next great top 10 QB by playing in the cellar. QB's that I personally think pass this test in no particular order (including ones that already have, so you have to keep them too basically): Brady Rodgers Big Ben Rivers Romo Eli Flacco Dalton Bridgewater Carr Brees Winston Mariota Dak Wentz Newton Smith Palmer Luck Cousins Stafford Ryan QB's that I am iffy on/cannot say Yes: Bradford Cutler McCown Tannehill Bortles Taylor Fitz Kaep Goff Now you may say, "how is Alex Smith in the yes category?" To be honest, I am biased by his recent streak of making the postseason. QB's can get hot and get lucky once they make the dance, and he's shown he can make it repeatedly. If some of the iffy QB's were on that KC team, that list may change, but we can't know that for sure. Obviously lots of those guys are works in progress. Wentz may suck by his next contract, and so could Dak. Goff coul dbe a star in 2 years. But judging today, this is what really matters There's a group of guys that the answer is yes, and a group of guys that you can't answer, and that's how you should dictate who you pay. Good enough to squeak into the playoffs and always being a bridesmaid is not the goal. Carson Palmer is going to win a Super Bowl? Is the NFL starting a Senior league like golf did? Romo and Dak both? Makes no sense. Dalton? Cousins? Come on dude, at least be more realistic with your anti-Tyrod stuff. Would it make sense for the Bills to call Roger Staubach be cause he has won it? You have a bunch of old guys on there that had some good seasons, and may have even won one, but won't again. Should their teams keep them only because of what they did in the past? Sadly, Bridgewater may never play again but you know enough to think he will be Super Bowl ready? The whole thing is an attack on Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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