Adam Schefter: Rex Ryan to be fired end of season

[Reed83HOF]

I'm sorry what? That made my head explode. I can't tell who is talking to whom, or who is mad about what. I guess it's like reading TSW...

 

LOL. I will try to clean it up a bit more....

[transient]

Yeah, but the key word there is "was", imo, he has been out of the coaching loop too long, it's a totally different game now, I think it's passed him by, kinda like it's passed Rex by.

Yeah, his Steelers blueprint hasn't stood the test of time at all.

[The Wiz]

Interesting. So it sounds like Whaley wasnt involved in the hire but now had the support to do the firing. Also find it odd that Rex had no input on players Whaley brought in but had a few of his old players signed.

Edited December 17, 2016 by The Wiz

[BUFFALOTONE]

I didn't want to believe Schefter's report about Shaq Lawson's shoulder needing surgery.

 

I want to believe him that Rex will be let go at the end of the season.

 

Any ACC fan knew Lawson needed shoulder surgery. It wasn't a limb he went out on.

[bobobonators]

Whaley missed on EJ

 

mortgaged the future by using 2 first round picks on Sammy. Could have had Mack at #5 or sat at #9 and taken Odell Beckham or DT Aaron Donald and kept the second first rounder.

 

overpaid on long term deals for underperforming Dareus, Clay, A. Williams, Hughes. re-did shady's deal.

 

NOT in good cap shape for 2017

 

Whaley hasn't done anything special at all.

I think the only glaring miss there was EJ.

 

Everything else you listed is hindsight. Dareus has probably hurt this team more than anyone else you listed on there (contract + underperformance) due to his own stupidity. Coming off a 10 sack season for a DT, having been drafted by the Bills, not resigning him wouldve been ridiculous. Imo

[Mr. WEO]

 

This might possibly add to the conversation:

 

John Wawrow ‏ Dec 16 Just to clarify based on tweets, having missed Whaley on @WGR550 this AM. So GM with big say in Rex's future not asked about Rex's future?

nickellion79 Their stance is that he didn't choose him and doesn't decide his future.

John Wawrow ‏ Dec 16 Excuse me. My head just exploded.

 

John Wawrow ‏ Dec 16 To be clear as i thought this was common knowledge: The decision on Rex's future is in the hands of Doug Whaley and Pegulas. Period.

Daryl Smith I thought he reported directly to Pegula?

John Wawrow ‏ Dec 16 Not in this case.

 

Suplex City Is this new or has it been that way since day 1?

John Wawrow Dec 16 It's how it was explained to me this past week.

Loreto Barbone sounds like Whaley is gaining the confidence and trust of the Pegula's

John Wawrow ‏ Dec 16 Did the 3-year contract extension in January not tip people off?

 

In Response to jw questioning why WGR didn't ask Whaley about the Rex Report:

Sal Capaccio B/c we have limited time and the rumors were unfounded. He wasn't fired Monday. And my understanding is TP makes ultimate call

John Wawrow Dec 16 Of course Terry makes the call, and based on input he receives from Whaley. The decision, as i've been told, is in Terry and Doug's hands.

 

Mark Ryan ‏it's interesting that DW seemed to have little to do with the hire but will have say in the future

John Wawrow Dec 16 Oh. Right. Given that he was the one Pegulas entrusted in running the search.

 

John Wawrow 1d1 day ago Also, since Pegulas are well known for not leaking information, these leaks are coming from somewhere. And certainly not from Rex.

 

Paul Hamilton That is def the case this time and def wasn't the case when Rex was hired. Terry and Kim did the interviewing and the hiring.

John Wawrow 22h22 hours ago Right. Whaley was credited in identifying the candidates and running the interview process, however. He wasn't a "bit" player.

Paul Hamilton actually he was. At the time they weren't even sure they were keeping him.

John Wawrow 21h21 hours ago They were based on Russ' backing

 

John Wawrow 19h19 hours ago Real tired of #Bills reacting and not acting to whims of popular opinion. It's selling tickets that's gotten them into this mess.

 

John Wawrow 19h19 hours ago And it's keeping them there. One panic move, follows another, and another. There seems to be no one bold enough there to say enough.

 

John Wawrow 19h19 hours ago Can't stop. Won't stop. It's 17 years i've been covering this rinse and repeat team.

 

John Wawrow ‏ 19h19 hours ago And it's this morning's interview on @WGR550 that continues to set me off. How, in this time of crisis, does Whaley get a pass.

 

John Wawrow ‏ 19h19 hours ago A 20-minute interview, and the first question is about dodgeball. And of course Whaley dodged it. Of course.

 

Also from Vic:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/16/vic-caruccis-bills-wake-call-whaley-no-safer-ryan/

 

"It's well known within the Bills that Terry and Kim Pegula have a great affinity for Whaley. They enjoy his company in social settings, and there have been almost no instances when Terry is on the sidelines before a game or at training camp when you don't see Whaley right by his side. One franchise insider told me Whaley "walks on hallowed grounds" with the Bills' owners, and that was at least partly why it took little convincing from team president Russ Brandon to give Whaley a contract extension after last season.

...

 

One, they turned to Whaley and Brandon to oversee the coaching search that led them to Ryan. The Pegulas leaned on Whaley's and Brandon's extensive NFL experience to manage the process that included a lengthy list of interviews all over the country.

 

It's fair to say Whaley mainly liked the choice because he knew Ryan, unlike his predecessor, Doug Marrone, would pretty much stay out of Whaley's way. Ryan would let him know what positions he wanted addressed and Whaley would find them and there would be nothing approaching the hands-on involvement that Marrone insisted on having in areas beyond coaching.

 

It's also fair to say that Brandon mainly liked the choice of Ryan because he knew that, at least in his first season, he would have a significantly positive impact on the sale of tickets. And he did. The Bills set a franchise record with 60,000 season-tickets sold in 2015.

 

The other obvious reason Whaley can't be allowed to stick around if the Pegulas proceed with another coaching search is that his presence would be a handicap. No top-level candidate is going to want to be forced to work with a GM whose track record is spotty, at best, and who has proven to have issues working successfully with not one but two head coaches."

Also:

 

ricky 4h4 hours ago any update on Rex Ryan being fired? If so has Whaley hired his own coach yet?

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago No one getting even interviewed until Rex gets fired. All expectations at OBD remain that he gets fired, but final games count.

ricky 3h3 hours ago has Whaley hired any coaches yet?

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago He was for hiring Rex.

 

 

 

Finally....an end to the Whaley didn't get to hire "his own HC" nonsense.

 

Rex was his guy. Period.

[bobobonators]

Interesting. So it sounds like Whaley wasnt involved in the hire but now had the support to do the firing. Also find it odd that Rex had no input on players Whaley brought in but had a few of his old players signed.

There are so many smoke screens right now that its impossible to know with 100% certainty who did what when.

[bobobonators]

lol.

 

How bout a defense?

Im with you. I still fail to comprehend the notion that if you remove TT from this offense we're automativally going from top 10 in pts scored to top 5 in pts scores. Bc thats what people are saying essentially. This offense isnt good enough. So plug in Joe B from the street and all of a sudden we're competing with the Saints and Falcons for the best scoring offense in the NFL. Ill just wait for the "who cares about points" crowd to chime in.

[Mr. WEO]

lol.

 

How bout a defense?

 

And Brandon's guy. Those ticket sales really took off.

 

I think they took off because of the new ownership.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

Finally....an end to the Whaley didn't get to hire "his own HC" nonsense.

 

Rex was his guy. Period.

Interesting...I didnt read it that way at all. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

 

To me it sounds like Whaley found the candidates......but the Pegs actually made the decision out of those candidates.

Im with you. I still fail to comprehend the notion that if you remove TT from this offense we're automativally going from top 10 in pts scored to top 5 in pts scores. Bc thats what people are saying essentially. This offense isnt good enough. So plug in Joe B from the street and all of a sudden we're competing with the Saints and Falcons for the best scoring offense in the NFL. Ill just wait for the "who cares about points" crowd to chime in.

I know this

 

We did not expect to be top 10 in the league in points

 

We DID expect to have a very good defense which we do not

 

Now which of those is Rex Ryan.....who is supposed to be a D guru......fault?

[bobobonators]

The whole premise of hiring Rex was playing excellent defense and run the ball, not turn it over and score just enough points. The offense did its part. Rexs defense has failed miserably.

 

Seems like a lot of people forget why we hired Rex...

100000000% agree.

 

It still boggles my mind actually. Who here thought when rex was hired and TT named starting QB that we were going to have a top 10 scoring offense in buffalo for TWO consecutive years, and with two different coordinators?? A rex team. NO. ONE.

 

This defense is an abomination compared to what it should be. This offense has been a revelation compared to what it was expected to be

Edited December 17, 2016 by bobobonators

[Gugny]

Interesting...I didnt read it that way at all. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

 

To me it sounds like Whaley found the candidates......but the Pegs actually made the decision out of those candidates.

 

 

Same here. Whaley narrowed it down. They weighed pros/cons for each. Decided ticket sales ruled the day. Then told Whaley who they wanted. Young GM at his first gig. New owner. What the hell is supposed to do? I hardly qualify this as Rex being "Whaley's guy."

[Mr. WEO]

Interesting...I didnt read it that way at all. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

 

To me it sounds like Whaley found the candidates......but the Pegs actually made the decision out of those candidates.

I know this

 

We did not expect to be top 10 in the league in points

 

We DID expect to have a very good defense which we do not

 

Now which of those is Rex Ryan.....who is supposed to be a D guru......fault?

 

 

It's fair to say Whaley mainly liked the choice because he knew Ryan, unlike his predecessor, Doug Marrone, would pretty much stay out of Whaley's way. Ryan would let him know what positions he wanted addressed and Whaley would find them and there would be nothing approaching the hands-on involvement that Marrone insisted on having in areas beyond coaching.

 

It's also fair to say that Brandon mainly liked the choice of Ryan because he knew that, at least in his first season, he would have a significantly positive impact on the sale of tickets. And he did. The Bills set a franchise record with 60,000 season-tickets sold in 2015.

 

The other obvious reason Whaley can't be allowed to stick around if the Pegulas proceed with another coaching search is that his presence would be a handicap. No top-level candidate is going to want to be forced to work with a GM whose track record is spotty, at best, and who has proven to have issues working successfully with not one but two head coaches."

 

Also:

 

ricky 4h4 hours ago any update on Rex Ryan being fired? If so has Whaley hired his own coach yet?

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago No one getting even interviewed until Rex gets fired. All expectations at OBD remain that he gets fired, but final games count.

ricky 3h3 hours ago has Whaley hired any coaches yet?

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago He was for hiring Rex.

 

 

As I said, all owners chose the HC. The Pegulas chose Rex based on Whaley's input. Rex was the guy Whaley wanted.

[26CornerBlitz]

Interesting...I didnt read it that way at all. Maybe I am reading it wrong?

 

To me it sounds like Whaley found the candidates......but the Pegs actually made the decision out of those candidates.

I know this

 

We did not expect to be top 10 in the league in points

 

We DID expect to have a very good defense which we do not

 

Now which of those is Rex Ryan.....who is supposed to be a D guru......fault?

 

Yep.

[bobobonators]

If Whaley was given full autonomy to bring in his DC of his choosing would anyone want to keep Rex as the HC? And go into next year with Rex, new DC, and Lynn?

 

Rex would have to be made aware he no longer has control of defense and the new DC is in charge of that unit. I dont think Rex would be down for that anyway.

Edited December 17, 2016 by bobobonators

[26CornerBlitz]

The whole premise of hiring Rex was playing excellent defense and run the ball, not turn it over and score just enough points. The offense did its part. Rexs defense has failed miserably.

 

Seems like a lot of people forget why we hired Rex...

 

Definitely a fair assessment.

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

Finally....an end to the Whaley didn't get to hire "his own HC" nonsense.

 

Rex was his guy. Period.

 

Seems as if enough is out there now that it clearly was the Whaley and Brandon show. Russ helped progress the situation with his 'Red Wine' texts to Rex to help with the selling of Rex to the Pegs. It really helps paint more of a picture as to what was really going on, and it slight shines a different light on Marrone. I am sure this gamesmanship has been going for sometime within Ralph's organization (and it still is Ralph's organization). I am also sure it isn't just Whaley and Brandon either.

[bobobonators]

 

 

It's fair to say Whaley mainly liked the choice because he knew Ryan, unlike his predecessor, Doug Marrone, would pretty much stay out of Whaley's way. Ryan would let him know what positions he wanted addressed and Whaley would find them and there would be nothing approaching the hands-on involvement that Marrone insisted on having in areas beyond coaching.

 

It's also fair to say that Brandon mainly liked the choice of Ryan because he knew that, at least in his first season, he would have a significantly positive impact on the sale of tickets. And he did. The Bills set a franchise record with 60,000 season-tickets sold in 2015.

 

The other obvious reason Whaley can't be allowed to stick around if the Pegulas proceed with another coaching search is that his presence would be a handicap. No top-level candidate is going to want to be forced to work with a GM whose track record is spotty, at best, and who has proven to have issues working successfully with not one but two head coaches."

 

Also:

 

ricky 4h4 hours ago any update on Rex Ryan being fired? If so has Whaley hired his own coach yet?

 

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago No one getting even interviewed until Rex gets fired. All expectations at OBD remain that he gets fired, but final games count.

 

ricky 3h3 hours ago has Whaley hired any coaches yet?

 

Joe Chenelly 3h3 hours ago He was for hiring Rex.

 

 

As I said, all owners chose the HC. The Pegulas chose Rex based on Whaley's input. Rex was the guy Whaley wanted.

"Final games count". So if we finish 9-7 And play well Rex possibly staying. So pretty much we have no inside information other and theres no difference in mindset since the beginning of this year when reports said that depending on how Rex did this yr he may get fired. They reported that back in what january 2016?

[Mr. WEO]

"Final games count". So if we finish 9-7 And play well Rex possibly staying. So pretty much we have no inside information other and theres no difference in mindset since the beginning of this year when reports said that depending on how Rex did this yr he may get fired. They reported that back in what january 2016?

 

 

Final games count in that the Pegulas don't want to see the team embarrass them over the last 3 games even knowing Rex is a goner.

[Reed83HOF]

It feels dirty, but Sully has some good points as well:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/16/fans-direct-ire-toward-top/

 

"The main target wasn't Tyrod Taylor or Rex Ryan this week. The great majority of the tweets and emails pointed higher in the organization, to the general manager, the team president and even the scouting department.

 

Most fans have watched the organization spin in circles long enough to know the problems go deeper than coach or quarterback. Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon have apparently sold ownership the fiction that the Bills have a deep, gifted roster. Discerning customers know better."

 

Nothing like a major Bills crisis to stir the disgruntled masses. This was the busiest week of the year for the Mailbag, perhaps the liveliest since Doug Marrone walked out with $4 million on New Year's Eve two years ago.

 

The submissions were more savvy than normal. Am I suddenly attracting a smarter crowd? The main target wasn't Tyrod Taylor or Rex Ryan this week. The great majority of the tweets and emails pointed higher in the organization, to the general manager, the team president and even the scouting department.

 

Most fans have watched the organization spin in circles long enough to know the problems go deeper than coach or quarterback. Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon have apparently sold ownership the fiction that the Bills have a deep, gifted roster. Discerning customers know better.

 

It's likely that Ryan will be fired after the season, if not sooner. He and his twin brother, Rob, celebrated their birthday last Tuesday. That happy occasion, plus the holiday season, might have given the Pegulas pause.

 

Evan Gibson asks: I understand all the talk about Rex and Tyrod being cut loose, but how in the world does Doug Whaley get a pass? Why do you believe he's safe in all this?

 

Sully: I've had several emails from people saying the media has been too soft on Whaley. I've called him stubborn and reckless. I said he allowed his defense to regress while fawning over EJ Manuel. I've said more than once that he should be fired for the Sammy Watkins trade alone.

 

But the Pegulas, who need to believe in someone, think otherwise. Presumably, Whaley is on solid ground with ownership, maybe because he's so good at schmoozing them in public settings. Whaley has a roster that's top-heavy in overpaid players, lacking in depth, and short on value picks from his drafts.

I can't think of a single Whaley draft pick who has outperformed his draft position. Ronald Darby, perhaps, but he regressed in his second season.

 

You can credit Whaley for some decent free-agent pickups, like Zach Brown, Lorenzo Alexander and Mike Gillislee. But the defense has been a disaster in its last five losses, so how great do those defensive pickups seem now? And there's nothing easier to find these days than a serviceable backup running back.

It's not as if Whaley has been a disaster, but he has been no better at his job than Ryan. He has been at odds with two coaches (Ryan and Doug Marrone) in his three full years as GM. His team is bound to get worse before it gets better. He won't be the Pegulas' Golden Boy for long.

 

Bill Perry asks: Do you think Doug Whaley should be deciding on Rex Ryan's future? I believe he is too tied to "his guys" on the roster and may blame Rex for their ineffectiveness.

 

Sully: Well said, Bill. No, I do not believe Whaley – or Brandon – should be involved in picking the next head coach. They're the ones who led Pegula to Ryan in the first place – soon after the owner was considering handing control of the operation to Bill Polian.

 

If the Pegulas trust Brandon and Whaley to deliver another head coach, they deserve to fail. Pegula's instincts were right when he looked for a veteran outside football man to help lead the Bills in a new direction. But when he lost Polian, he took the lazy way out, and he's back where he started.

 

You're right about Whaley being loyal to his own players. That's typical of weak general managers, who hold on to their mistakes in an attempt to justify an earlier mistake. The entire saga of EJ Manuel is a regrettable example.

 

@EWSchultzLaw asks: Time for a complete Bills housecleaning? As in, include Russ Brandon in a purge? He has been the "continuity" of this drought.

 

Lou Speranza asks: Is Brandon, who has sat in on all Bills weekly meetings for 20 years, getting a pass on blame for 17-year nightmare?

 

Sully: I've probably gotten as many of those Brandon comments as questions about Tyrod's inability to throw from the pocket. Fans realize that Brandon has been around for the entire drought – and that despite the franchise's chronic dysfunction, he has become promoted and increasingly empowered along the way.

When the Pegulas made Brandon president of both the Bills and Sabres, it was assumed that his role in the football operation would diminish. Evidence suggest that he's still very much involved with the Bills.

 

Brandon is a jock to the core, a competitor. His dream when he worked under John Butler was to become a general manager some day. He got his chance to be GM in 2008-09, with modest success, then stepped aside for Buddy Nix – in the words of the late Ralph Wilson, "a general manager of football."

You're right. It's high time for a housecleaning, which would involve actually separating Brandon from the football side. The Pegulas rely on him. He's been very good for business. But there's no denying that Brandon has also been a constant in the longest playoff drought in major pro sports.

 

@EricEsch asks: This "source" that keeps feeding Jason LaConfora all of these tips on the Bills. What is that?

 

Sully: These leaks generally originate in the front office of the team involved. Sometimes, it's agents who are talking. But I know from experience that national writers spend a lot of time talking with general managers and other personnel guys over the phone.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that Whaley is talking, but from what I understand, he's not averse to running his mouth in public. He and Ryan are not on good terms, so it's no surprise that national writers would put out the notion that Whaley had provided his head coach with playoff talent.

 

I learned early in the profession to be wary of these source relationships. It often results in the writer getting most of his "inside" stuff from management, and being

favorable to the GM's side in a crisis.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Reed83HOF