Jerry Jones is a better GM than Whaley

[thebandit27]

Well Jerry isnt picking players now, but for quite awhile he did pick players. Was an unmitigated disater and he finally wised up and hired some real football people.

 

Although, i believe, didnt he pull Romo out of basically nowhere?

No, that was Sean Payton. He was an Eastern Illinois alum, and remained close with the program, so he convinced the organization to give Romo a shot.

[TSOL]

No, that was Sean Payton. He was an Eastern Illinois alum, and remained close with the program, so he convinced the organization to give Romo a shot.

Oh, i was under the impression that was Jerry. Oh well.

[BringBackFergy]

Well Jerry isnt picking players now, but for quite awhile he did pick players. Was an unmitigated disater and he finally wised up and hired some real football people.

 

Although, i believe, didnt he pull Romo out of basically nowhere?

Am I missing something or is Jerry the GM?? Sorry if this has been said but I thought the GM calls the shots on who is brought in to play.

[TSOL]

Am I missing something or is Jerry the GM?? Sorry if this has been said but I thought the GM calls the shots on who is brought in to play.

I dont frickin know, i believe, in title he is, but apparently hes got some good advisors. All i know is he seems to have two QB's that are better than anything we have seen in awhile.

 

Id rather have good/great QB evaluation than someone who hits on a few defensive players every now and again. That dosent seem that hard to do. I feel like i could pick defensive players if i had the resources available. Its the QB's that are the elusive ones.

[msw2112]

First line of my earlier post: "I have not read the entire thread, and I apologize if this has already been said, but my understanding is that Stephen Jones, Jerry's kid, is the real mastermind...."

 

Comment on the post:

 

 

No.

 

Stephen Jones is the person that convinced Jerry to step back and let the football people operate.

 

Will McClay is the mastermind.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4750668/scouting-director-will-mcclay-refuses-to-shrink-when-jerry-jones-challenges-him

 

To further my point (perhaps from a different angle) - Stephen Jones is the mastermind who convinced Jerry to step back and let the football people operate. The Bills could use this kind of mastermind and have needed it for years.

Edited November 5, 2016 by msw2112

[CountryCletus]

I really miss Buddy Nix... Right when he was assembling the top talent, this happens...

[BringBackFergy]

First line of my earlier post: "I have not read the entire thread, and I apologize if this has already been said, but my understanding is that Stephen Jones, Jerry's kid, is the real mastermind...."

 

Comment on the post:

 

 

To further my point (perhaps from a different angle) - Stephen Jones is the mastermind who convinced Jerry to step back and let the football people operate. The Bills could use this kind of mastermind and have needed it for years.

So what you're saying is the Cowboys (and their GM and advisors) are better than the Bills (and their GM and advisors)?

[Cripple Creek]

Regarding the Shaq/Jaylon comparison

 

What exactly is the difference....and as a matter of fact wouldnt Whaley deserve big time credit for finding a replacement while Shaq was on the mend?

 

Lets see Jerrah find a Lorax type player for peanuts.....(which is also a GM job not just the draft)

Is this a serious post or a joke?

[BaaadThingsMan]

According to Deion Sanders the Zeke pick was a bust so that means Jurrah sucks

Ask Jurrah, he'll tell you he's the GM. Idk but either way it was his decision to pick Zeke. You could see that one coming from a mile away but the experts kept trying to give the Boys a D player. Nah. Jurrah said heck no, gimme Zeke.

[Cripple Creek]

DC our post is confusing to me

 

 

 

 

[folz]

Is Whaley perfect? Of course not, but if nothing more, he's the best GM we've had in 16 years (Donahoe, Marv, Brandon, Nix).

Why would you want to get rid of him unless you were absolutely sure that you could get someone much better. Something tells

me that the list of unemployed GMs that would be much better than Whaley is very short. It may not be showing up on the field

right now for whatever reason (injuries, losing culture, coaching, etc.) and we're all disappointed, but this is the most talent we have

had since the late 90s. I wouldn't just throw that away in the hopes of landing some top 10 GM who actually wants to come to Buffalo.

I honestly think if you look at the roster objectively, not just at those last two disappointing loses, Whaley (and Monos) have done a

really solid job.

And no offense OP, I'm totally disappointed in the little impact that Sammy has had thus far too, but it used to drive me crazy when people

said we gave up two first rounders for Sammy, let alone three. Yes we gave them that year's first rounder and the following year's first and

fourth rounder (2 first rounders). But we also got a first rounder back from them that we used on Sammy. So, the reality is we gave a first

and fourth rounder to the Browns to swap picks. We didn't even give away two first round picks because we got one back (at a higher slot).

[Cripple Creek]

 

 

LMAO...first no one is right 100% of the time...not me, not you, not anyone...in fact GM's are WRONG way more then they are right. Bill Walsh said JJ Stokes, who he traded up for, was the next Jerry Rice. He also drafted Jim Drunkenmiller calling him the next great 49er QB and compared him to Young and Montana.

 

Second, Spiller was coming off a monster year and people wanted to dump him. I defended him being on this team because we were completely devoid of playmakers on this roster and he was literally the single only explosive weapon we had who just averaged 6 YPC the previous season in a BIG season. Him and Freddie made a great combo and our crappy HC Gailey knew how to use him and get production. Spiller would follow that great season with an injury filled one and then moved on. The biggest knock on him wasnt his talent, it was whether he could stay on the field if he was a featured runner. I wasnt ready to call him injury prone as he was still young then and most injuries were minor tweaks up to that point. Obviously, he proved to be very injury prone and barely saw the field because of it the last 2 years.

 

And I didn't tell the poster in the post your are commenting on to "never comment on football again". I said that comment to no one if you read it. I, not the poster, brought up Alfred Morris and said he would be at the top of this league in rushing behind this offensive line too, which is why the Zeke pick was unneccessary. The comment I made was that if anyone wants to respond that Alfred would not be having a great season behind this OL in Dallas too shouldn't comment on football because that would be a ridiculous statement considering Alfred had a monster preseason behind this OL, is a perennial 1000 yard rusher for his previous bad teams, has a 4.4 YPC career average on bad teams, and is in his prime still.

 

So dont spin that to say I told the original poster not to comment on football again, I used that directly at no one and only in support of the Alfred statement before someone said something ridiculous that Alfred wouldn't be good behind this OL too.

I get lost in posts like this, but, what I get from you is that you believe that at the end of their careers Morris and Elliot will have similar statistics. That is not likely to be true.

 

Jones is GMing for the long haul...it would be nice to see the Bills follow suit rather than signing stopgap players like Alexander.

[Cripple Creek]

While some might credit Jerry Jones for the team's recent turnaround. If had his way he would have drafted Johnny Manziel

You're right, Manziel's.250 winning percentage is dwarfed by fellow first rounder EJ Manuel, a Doug Whaley pick, who checks in with a whopping .375. We should be so !@#$ing proud.

Because there were a lot of famine years

It is nice to see you finally be critical of the Bills.

This is mostly correct and some choose to not believe it. Perhaps from Jerry Jones own mouth about how he was talked out of drafting Manziel by Stephen.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000408696/Martin-best-choice-Jones-could-have-made

 

 

From another story.

 

"So what happened to convince the billionaire owner that his Cowboys were better off selecting Notre Dame offensive lineman Zack Martin than Manziel?"

 

But Longtime scout Walter Juliff's ringing pre-draft endorsement of Martin has proven accurate for a team that's now 5-1 and running the ball better than any team in the league while reducing the burden on Romo.

 

"Walter said, 'I'm going to make a statement that's going to make everybody drop because we've had a couple of Hall of Fame guards, especially Larry Allen,' " Stephen Jones recalled. "Walter said, 'Zack Martin is the most high-level ready offensive lineman I've ever seen since I've been scouting here.

 

"That doesn't mean he has Larry's upside. But as far as ready to start from Day 1, Zack was truly plug and play." It helped that Martin started 52 games for Notre Dame. Stephen Jones said Cowboys coach Jason Garrett "had a huge influence on selecting Martin," who has the quick feet of a left tackle (his primary position for the Irish) but is a mauling finisher as a guard."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2014/10/17/zack-martin-jerry-jones-johnny-manziel-dallas-draft/17444699/

 

I've not read anywhere that anyone other than Jerry Jones and his son Stephen are the people that make the ultimate choice on who to draft and they listen to everyone in the draft room for advice. Although, the rest of the people in the draft room besides the Jones family are just cogs in the wheel.

You're not the only one doing it, so no offense, but, isn't a sign of a superior leader that she/he surround her/himself with quality people who make it possible for the entire organization be successful?

 

Your point will have some merit when Whaley's son is the brains under the throne.

[Nihilarian]

Nice passive aggressive call out!

 

Because they have no GM in title, you (notice I said "you" and not "some people"...see how that works? ) may choose to interpret that as the Joneses making personnel decisions (frankly that wouldn't surprise me given some of the opinions you've taken with regard to who makes personnel decisions on this team ).

 

But that's not what they're doing, and nowhere in that link does it say that Stephen made the decision on Martin. It's widely known around the league that McClay is the head of personnel. It's his staff that's providing the scouting reports, and his staff that's making the recommendations.

 

As I said earlier, the best compliment we can pay to Stephen Jones is that he's gotten out of the way and let the football guys do their jobs.

I was merely attempting to avoid the condescending arrogance that exudes in some posts.

 

The first wrong item on the agenda is the team has a GM and his name is Jerry Jones. Owner / President / General Manager http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/coaches

 

Stephen Jones, Chief Operating Officer / Executive Vice President / Director of Player Personnel

 

The second item wrong is that I linked three articles that basically state that Jerry Jones wanted to make the choice for Johnny Manziel and he was overruled by his son Stephen. The people that make the actual choices for the Cowboys draft picks are Jerry and his son Stephen and all the rest of the scouts the team employs and coaches just give their input into each selection.

 

In fact, in one article I linked it stated, "But Longtime scout Walter Juliff's ringing pre-draft endorsement of Martin has proven accurate for a team that's now 5-1 and running the ball better than any team in the league while reducing the burden on Romo.

 

That article also goes on to say, It helped that Martin started 52 games for Notre Dame. Stephen Jones said Cowboys coach Jason Garrett "had a huge influence on selecting Martin," who has the quick feet of a left tackle (his primary position for the Irish) but is a mauling finisher as a guard.

 

What is interesting to me is that Will McClay isn't even listed on the Cowboys official website. However, he is listed in another article as the Cowboys assistant director of player personnel. http://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2016/06/18/dallas-cowboys-lionel-vital-director-college-scouting-will-mcclay/

 

The only thing I see McClay "leading" is the scouts and setting up the draft board. Nowhere did I read that he makes any selection on any player and only offers his advice on each individual like the others in the draft room. Also, McClay was the director of football research for the Cowboys in 2012 and was promoted to assistant director of player personnel in 2013.

 

The changes in the drafting philosophy regarding drafting offensive linemen with a first round pick started in 2011 as the team had never drafted an offensive line the entire time Jerry Jones has owned the Cowboys (since 1989)

 

 

 

"I was wrong once...I thought I'd made a mistake, but it turned out I hadn't." ...except you make them all the time and are simply too obstinate to admit it!

[thebandit27]

Do you mean "some posts" or some of MY posts?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2014/1/14/5305218/a-deeper-look-at-will-mcclay-role-with-the-dallas-cowboys-jerry-jones-jason-garrett

 

"Last week, it was announced that Will McClay would now be the person in charge of preparing the draft board."

 

Doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

If you're going to fall back on "Jones has final say", well, I'll only ask this:

 

Do you really believe that Stephen is making his own calls on players, and not sticking to the board, and that's why they've been more successful since McClay was placed in charge of the board?

 

The answer is obvious.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidethestar.com/cowboys-headlines/dallas-cowboys-win-big-with-will-mcclay-declining-lions-gm-invite/amp/

 

"McClay has been the guy behind all of the decisions."

Edited November 5, 2016 by thebandit27

[8-8 Forever?]

Dak might turn out good. Only saw one game but he was OK in it. Elliot and his line for sure help him out

 

Wentz............looks great with no help on that team. Just a really old Darren Sproles, who also looked good

 

All of which makes for me tough to view TT. Give him a pass because he has no weapons, but then watch a guy like Wentz succeed. IDK

their great O Line and Elliot are what make Dak look good. give elliot a bad hammy and witten a bad knee and see what you've got. QBs get too much of the credit for wins. way too much.

Edited November 5, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore

[ALF]

It would be more then worth it if the Bills over paid the best scouts in the league , to get him here.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Dak Prescott (will be stuck in wage scale for four years)

Zeke Elliot (monster RB with four more years)

Jaylon Smith (Top 10 talent...wait and see for 2017)

O Line ...enough said

 

Jerry has assembled a strong young team. Is already re-doing some O line contracts, defense may be suspect, but look what he assembled in one or two years.

 

Meanwhile, in Buffalo:

Tyrod

Old Shady with a lot of $$$

Dareus (3rd pick, lots o' $$$, groin is ouchy)

Sammy (gave away three first round picks for a WR with a hurt foot)

Lorax (love the guy but age will catch up to him)

Shaq (missed 7 games)

Gilmore...(fill in the blank)

 

Jerry has every reason to be named "GM of the Year"

 

Well he did sux for a long time

[jester43]

Why are people taking offense to this?

 

Whoever the GM of the Cowboys is is doing a better job than Whaley. Can we agree on that?

I'm sure not.

 

Whaley looks competent next to Buddy Nix, Russ Brandon and Marv Levy, but that doesn't make him anything special. His dubious decision making with regard to Watkins and McCoy is well documented. And I'd love to know what tackles we passed on for Kouandijo.

 

He's so full of baloney when he talks I can't take him seriously.

[KRT88]

So the guys a better GM because he got lucky on a 4th round QB whom looks good now! This will be truly funny when the league figures him out.

 

Now the strongly built O-line is well done. Having a young RB behind the O-line is also but RB go down. When Shaddy is healthy, he kills it too behind a solid O-line.

 

Then we look back at the last 20 years ...