Jerry Jones is a better GM than Whaley

[Nihilarian]

Do you mean "some posts" or some of MY posts?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2014/1/14/5305218/a-deeper-look-at-will-mcclay-role-with-the-dallas-cowboys-jerry-jones-jason-garrett

 

"Last week, it was announced that Will McClay would now be the person in charge of preparing the draft board."

 

Doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

If you're going to fall back on "Jones has final say", well, I'll only ask this:

 

Do you really believe that Stephen is making his own calls on players, and not sticking to the board, and that's why they've been more successful since McClay was placed in charge of the board?

 

The answer is obvious.

If you took the time to read my post I said he sets up the draft board and leads the scouts. The board during the draft is fluid and not set in stone and it is there by a consensus of discussion by the entire staff previous to the draft! Do you not understand that the board changes after the first few selections and the team is constantly working trades to move around during the entire draft. The man who is working those 31 phone lines ls none other than Stephen Jones.

 

I also said that change started in the basic philosophy of the team in drafting while McClay was the director of "football research". Which means he was not in power to change the entire philosophy of the team or have much involvement in anything other than football research. This promotion for McClay occurred in 2013 and the change had already started in 2011.

 

1) You said the team has no GM in name and I proved you wrong by listing the team's official website that states Jerry Jones is the GM!

2) McClay is the "assistant" director of player personnel because again, on the official website it lists Stephen Jones as the actual director of player personnel.

 

From another source, http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/ranking-2016-nfl-general-managers

 

11. Jerry Jones / Stephen Jones, Cowboys

"It’s hard to know for sure who’s running things in Dallas. Jerry Jones has the official GM title, but his son Stephen Jones appears to be the one making the decisions. Whoever is in charge has done a fantastic job building this roster over the last few years. The current team was wisely built from the inside-out, as the front office spent considerable resources building up the league’s best offensive line. It’s also avoided the splash moves that crippled the team’s cap in the past."

Again, this change started before McClay was in any kind of power to have a say over the entire draft. If you actually knew anything about the Dallas Cowboys other than an article you quoted that doesn't even get the man's title correct. All McClay is the "assistant" director of player personnel and nothing more! You also would know that Jerry Jones has been making the actual draft selections for the longest time. The last few years his son Stephen has been making the selections and is the one solely responsible for changing the foundation of how the team was going to build through the draft.

 

 

Hey man, believe what you want to believe as I listened to an in-depth interview with Stephen Jones about the draft process and who has had the control over the team the last few years and he himself stated that although Jerry is still involved, just not to the extent he was a few years ago as he is now 73 years old and passing the torch to his sons.

 

This is basically why I avoided initial quoting or direct confrontation because even confronted with direct evidence from several sources you refuse to change opinion even though proven incorrect on several things. Continue to argue if you must as I've made my points.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Nihilarian

[thebandit27]

If you took the time to read my post I said he sets up the draft board and leads the scouts. The board during the draft is fluid and not set in stone and it is there by a consensus of discussion by the entire staff previous to the draft! Do you not understand that the board changes after the first few selections and the team is constantly working trades to move around during the entire draft. The man who is working those 31 phone lines ls none other than Stephan Jones.

 

I also said that change started in the basic philosophy of the team in drafting while McClay was the director of "football research". Which means he was not in power to change the entire philosophy of the team or have much involvement in anything other than football research. This promotion for McClay occurred in 2013 and the change had already started in 2011.

 

1) You said the team has no GM in name and I proved you wrong by listing the team's official website that states Jerry Jones is the GM!

2) McClay is the "assistant" director of player personnel because again, on the official website it lists Stephen Jones as the actual director of player personnel.

 

From another source, http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/ranking-2016-nfl-general-managers

 

11. Jerry Jones / Stephen Jones, Cowboys

Its hard to know for sure whos running things in Dallas. Jerry Jones has the official GM title, but his son Stephen Jones appears to be the one making the decisions. Whoever is in charge has done a fantastic job building this roster over the last few years. The current team was wisely built from the inside-out, as the front office spent considerable resources building up the leagues best offensive line. Its also avoided the splash moves that crippled the teams cap in the past.

Again, this change started before McClay was in any kind of power to have a say over the entire draft. If you actually knew anything about the Dallas Cowboys other than an article you quoted that doesn't even get the man's title correct. All McClay is the "assistant" director of player personnel and nothing more! You also would know that Jerry Jones has been making the actual draft selections for the longest time. The last few years his son Stephen has been making the selections and is the one solely responsible for changing the foundation of how the team was going to build through the draft.

 

 

Hey man, believe what you want to believe as I listened to an in-depth interview with Stephen Jones about the draft process and who has had the control over the team the last few years and he himself stated that although Jerry is still involved, just not to the extent he was a few years ago as he is now 73 years old and passing the torch to his sons.

 

This is basically why I avoided initial quoting or direct confrontation because even confronted with direct evidence from several sources you refuse to change opinion even though proven incorrect on several things. Continue to argue if you must as I've made my points.

I've quoted just as many sources that you've ignored, so glass houses and such.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidethestar.com/cowboys-headlines/dallas-cowboys-win-big-with-will-mcclay-declining-lions-gm-invite/amp/

 

"McClay has been the guy behind all of the decisions."

 

Ignore the obvious if you so choose, but if you're daring enough, ask yourself this: what makes more sense--the owner is making picks, or the personnel guy is making picks?

 

I have to admit that I don't expect much in regard to that question--you have something of a history in assuming that non-football guys make the football decisions

 

You've also managed to ignore the entire crux of the discussion, which is that Jones should get credit for stepping back and letting the football guys make decisions.

 

That you have somehow managed to devise from that idea that I don't know or understand the history of the Cowboys' personnel hierarchy is amazing. Anyone that follows the game knows that Jones felt he didn't need a personnel guy post-Gil Brandt, but at least he gets it now.

[Cripple Creek]

Do you mean "some posts" or some of MY posts?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2014/1/14/5305218/a-deeper-look-at-will-mcclay-role-with-the-dallas-cowboys-jerry-jones-jason-garrett

 

"Last week, it was announced that Will McClay would now be the person in charge of preparing the draft board."

 

Doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

If you're going to fall back on "Jones has final say", well, I'll only ask this:

 

Do you really believe that Stephen is making his own calls on players, and not sticking to the board, and that's why they've been more successful since McClay was placed in charge of the board?

 

The answer is obvious.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidethestar.com/cowboys-headlines/dallas-cowboys-win-big-with-will-mcclay-declining-lions-gm-invite/amp/

 

"McClay has been the guy behind all of the decisions."

Why are you grasping at this silly straw? The title states that JJ is a better GM than Whaley and you keep falling back on this one thin thread...but, but, but, Jerry isn't in charge of the draft!!!!! He calls the shots and he is in charge of whatever the heck he wants to be. Just like Jones has outperformed Whaley he has also outperformed our owners, but, that's a thread for another day. (please don't bring up history with Jones...ours is much, much worse)

[Nihilarian]

I've quoted just as many sources that you've ignored, so glass houses and such.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insidethestar.com/cowboys-headlines/dallas-cowboys-win-big-with-will-mcclay-declining-lions-gm-invite/amp/

 

"McClay has been the guy behind all of the decisions."

 

Ignore the obvious if you so choose, but if you're daring enough, ask yourself this: what makes more sense--the owner is making picks, or the personnel guy is making picks?

 

I have to admit that I don't expect much in regard to that question--you have something of a history in assuming that non-football guys make the football decisions

 

You've also managed to ignore the entire crux of the discussion, which is that Jones should get credit for stepping back and letting the football guys make decisions.

 

That you have somehow managed to devise from that idea that I don't know or understand the history of the Cowboys' personnel hierarchy is amazing. Anyone that follows the game knows that Jones felt he didn't need a personnel guy post-Gil Brandt, but at least he gets it now.

I've read every article posted and it doesn't change anything in my view simply because both writers have things wrong. The ESPN article doesn't even get the title of McClay correct as he is simply the assistant of director of player personnel. The last article states that Tryon Smith was drafted in 2011 was McClay's choice and yet all he was at that time was the director of football research and not in any sort of power to make the final decision on any player selection.

 

Do you simply not believe that Jerry Jones was the one making the final decisions on who to draft for years and years long before McClay was even hired by the Cowboys?

 

Did you not read the article that stated that a scout other than McClay had direct influence over drafting Zack Martin with his opinion during the draft! That Stephen Jones himself stated that the HC Jason Garrett was also directly responsible for the team drafting Zack Martin?

 

Read the last line in that article you quoted in which the writer actually gets it right "McClay is going to be at the table to chip in with decision-making, as he should be." and that's all he does is chip in with the decision making as the owner and his son make the final decisions on everything! The one person that old power mad Jerry Jones will actually listen to and concede to... is his own son.

[Billsman623]

He wanted Johnny Manziel and had to be talked out of it at the last minute. Give me a break and go root for the Cowboys if you love him so much.

[thebandit27]

Why are you grasping at this silly straw? The title states that JJ is a better GM than Whaley and you keep falling back on this one thin thread...but, but, but, Jerry isn't in charge of the draft!!!!! He calls the shots and he is in charge of whatever the heck he wants to be. Just like Jones has outperformed Whaley he has also outperformed our owners, but, that's a thread for another day. (please don't bring up history with Jones...ours is much, much worse)

Um, at what point did I say that McClay hasn't outperformed our GM?

I've read every article posted and it doesn't change anything in my view simply because both writers have things wrong. The ESPN article doesn't even get the title of McClay correct as he is simply the assistant of director of player personnel. The last article states that Tryon Smith was drafted in 2011 was McClay's choice and yet all he was at that time was the director of football research and not in any sort of power to make the final decision on any player selection.

 

Do you simply not believe that Jerry Jones was the one making the final decisions on who to draft for years and years long before McClay was even hired by the Cowboys?

 

Did you not read the article that stated that a scout other than McClay had direct influence over drafting Zack Martin with his opinion during the draft! That Stephen Jones himself stated that the HC Jason Garrett was also directly responsible for the team drafting Zack Martin?

 

Read the last line in that article you quoted in which the writer actually gets it right "McClay is going to be at the table to chip in with decision-making, as he should be." and that's all he does is chip in with the decision making as the owner and his son make the final decisions on everything! The one person that old power mad Jerry Jones will actually listen to and concede to... is his own son.

There's no way you read my last post if you're asking whether or not I believe that jones was making decisions before McClay came along.

[Nihilarian]

Cowboys are about to see the playoffs their second time in three years.

 

We are headed for another .500 season and fourth straight year without the postseason under Whaley.

 

Jerry wins!

The Detroit Lions became relevant again in 2011 after making the playoffs from an 11-year absence . The Oakland Raiders are currently 6-2 and looking to make the playoffs this year after not making the playoffs since 2003.

 

Only Buffalo...

[Cripple Creek]

Um, at what point did I say that McClay hasn't outperformed our GM?

At what point does that have anything to do with this topic? But, please keep on firing those witty responses. Jones is the GM. Whaley is the GM. One GM has outperformed the other. That is what this thread is about. http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/staff/roster/jerry-jones

[thebandit27]

At what point does that have anything to do with this topic? But, please keep on firing those witty responses. Jones is the GM. Whaley is the GM. One GM has outperformed the other. That is what this thread is about. http://www.dallascowboys.com/team/staff/roster/jerry-jones

Good grief.

 

We're comparing a guy with administrative responsibilities to a guy with the definitive role in personnel.

 

Whaley is the chief personnel guy for Buffalo, and McClay plays that role for Dallas.

 

I swear sometimes I think I'm being put on.

 

First off, Fergy is needling with the OP. It's a post that's done in jest.

 

However, since Dallas has performed the role of roster assembly in a superior fashion to Buffalo over the past half decade, I felt it was worth discussing the job that McClay and his staff have done in accumulating talent.

 

I then commented that the Joneses deserve credit for getting out of the way and letting the football people do their jobs.

 

Somehow, a few of you are offended by this, and have somehow managed to morph my argument into some oddly phrased defense of Whaley...or perhaps an equally oddly phrased criticism of the Joneses.

 

Either way, if my point isn't clear by now, then I fear it never will be.

 

Oh well.

[Cripple Creek]

Good grief.

 

We're comparing a guy with administrative responsibilities to a guy with the definitive role in personnel.

 

Whaley is the chief personnel guy for Buffalo, and McClay plays that role for Dallas.

 

I swear sometimes I think I'm being put on.

 

First off, Fergy is needling with the OP. It's a post that's done in jest.

 

However, since Dallas has performed the role of roster assembly in a superior fashion to Buffalo over the past half decade, I felt it was worth discussing the job that McClay and his staff have done in accumulating talent.

 

I then commented that the Joneses deserve credit for getting out of the way and letting the football people do their jobs.

 

Somehow, a few of you are offended by this, and have somehow managed to morph my argument into some oddly phrased defense of Whaley...or perhaps an equally oddly phrased criticism of the Joneses.

 

Either way, if my point isn't clear by now, then I fear it never will be.

 

Oh well.

Your point is off point and irrelevant to this topic. (and I am not offended, it takes quite a lot to offend me)

[thebandit27]

Your point is off point and irrelevant to this topic. (and I am not offended, it takes quite a lot to offend me)

We're comparing the job that two people have done assembling rosters.

 

How is that irrelevant?

[BringBackFergy]

We're comparing the job that two people have done assembling rosters.

 

How is that irrelevant?

The comparison originally made is between JJ as GM and Whaley as GM. I understand your position (ie. JJ isn't the only guy selecting players) but as GM, JJ is the winner it appears. Looks like Crippled Creek was saying this as well.

 

And let me make one thing clear...I like Whaley a whole lot. I want him to stay on. But Jones has received criticism from this board and it appears he is doing a pretty good job given the team he assembled.

[John from Riverside]

Cowboys are about to see the playoffs their second time in three years.

 

We are headed for another .500 season and fourth straight year without the postseason under Whaley.

 

Jerry wins!

You dont know that yet

The comparison originally made is between JJ as GM and Whaley as GM. I understand your position (ie. JJ isn't the only guy selecting players) but as GM, JJ is the winner it appears. Looks like Crippled Creek was saying this as well.

 

And let me make one thing clear...I like Whaley a whole lot. I want him to stay on. But Jones has received criticism from this board and it appears he is doing a pretty good job given the team he assembled.

by sitting back and letting football people do their jobs? Yes he should actually get credit for that cuz he is a meddlesome owner

[BringBackFergy]

You dont know that yet

 

by sitting back and letting football people do their jobs? Yes he should actually get credit for that cuz he is a meddlesome owner

Meddlesome successful owner and GM. Yes he is.

[Nihilarian]

Meddlesome successful owner and GM. Yes he is.

and with a franchise now worth 4.2 Billion dollars...

 

In 1989 Jerry Jones paid 140 million for the Cowboys and was told by his advisers it was a bad investment as the team was losing 35k a day coming off three straight losing seasons. Kinda interesting because HR Bum Bright had bought the team for 60 million 5 years earlier. The first ever sports franchise to sell for over 100 million and Jones was told he overpaid for it.

 

And yeah, they will more than likely make the playoffs this year at 6-1, 188 PF-130 PA with the NFL's leading rusher and QB Dak Prescott currently has more passing yards than Aaron Rodgers

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

C

O

N

T

I

N

U

I

T

Y

Ever heard Einsteins definition of insanity?

[Big Turk]

Will McClay, their Director of Player Personnel, is the guy that is drafting players.

 

Not Jerry.

 

If Jerry were in charge, they'd have drafted Manziel.

And Jerry never got much right recently until Stephen started talking him down off the ledge on a lot of his picks...don't forget, he would have drafted Manziel without Stephen there to talk some sense into him. Edited November 5, 2016 by matter2003

[yungmack]

I'm sure not.

 

Whaley looks competent next to Buddy Nix, Russ Brandon and Marv Levy, but that doesn't make him anything special. His dubious decision making with regard to Watkins and McCoy is well documented. And I'd love to know what tackles we passed on for Kouandijo.

 

He's so full of baloney when he talks I can't take him seriously.

Your screen name suggests you're a joker so I guess this post is meant to give us all a laugh.

[BringBackFergy]

And Jerry never got much right recently until Stephen started talking him down off the ledge on a lot of his picks...don't forget, he would have drafted Manziel without Stephen there to talk some sense into him.

Ummm, he still makes the final decision as GM. So your point is understood. He might have picked Manziel but didn't. We might have picked EJ and did.

[Big Turk]

Ummm, he still makes the final decision as GM. So your point is understood. He might have picked Manziel but didn't. We might have picked EJ and did.

Yeah, he might, but he also is being highly influenced by his son now, who is much less prone to jump as the big flash than Jerry is, and it's paying dividends...before that not so much...

 

The difference was we had nothing and he had Romo, so that would have been a wasted pick, and if you've ever heard Jerry talk you know that if it was up to him he would have taken Manziel...clearly he is listening to others now and its helping a lot because when he did it all himself it was pretty terrible for a long time...

 

And who else would they have drafted from that class that was going to be better? They traded down to get an extra second rounder and then took a QB...I don't know what else you wanted them to do...start Fitz again?