Kirby Jackson Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Sounds like you should be a recruiter for NFL billionaires! Keep a small piece of the action, and entire whenever the hell you want.I'm telling you Aug, there are some morons. I am not talking about morons at the entry level, I am talking senior management. The league is filled with idiots. Part of the reason is that it runs itself and hasn't required talented people. They get the absolute minimum out of the product that they have. Every time a situation arises they do the exact opposite of what makes sense. That's why these issues spin out of control. It's not just the popularity of the league but the idiots controlling the story. The flip side of it is that the NBA is paying about double for most of their staff. Senior management is probably similar but if you have an employee making $70K in the NFL, their counterpart in the NBA is making $140K. They take all of the talent. Edited October 22, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I'm telling you Aug, there are some morons. I am not talking about morons at the entry level, I am talking senior management. The league is filled with idiots. Part of the reason is that it runs itself and hasn't required talented people. They get the absolute minimum out of the product that they have. Every time a situation arises they do the exact opposite of what makes sense. That's why these issues spin out of control. It's not just the popularity of the league but the idiots controlling the story. The flip side of it is that the NBA is paying about double for most of their staff. Senior management is probably similar but if you have an employee making $70K in the NFL, their counterpart in the NBA is making $140K. They take all of the talent. Take me along as a gopher! I'm not proud! My youngest son is a new CPA with PWC in Atlanta. His dream job is to get into sports management. It's actually very interesting to hear about what goes on behind the scenes. He's quite bright, but works harder than anyone I've known besides my wife. He was blessed with the right side of the gene pool. Maybe he needs to channel his inner PG rather than the QB that led to all the ice baths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Even if NFL fans aren't discussing it, it is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room. Furious outrage at the NFL for allowing pervasive domestic violence in its culture by giving light or minimum punishments to perpetrators, but prosecutors whose job it is to pursue cases such as these and ensure that people who commit crimes are punished isn't shown in a bad light at all. Almost like it is up to their discretion to charge people or not, but the NFL does it and SCANDAL!!! It just seems so backwards. Worse...the attitude that, since the burden of proof is high for criminal cases, and DV cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute, the league should be responsible for enforcement because the burden of proof is lower. Which is a common, lazy, and stupid attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I'm telling you Aug, there are some morons. I am not talking about morons at the entry level, I am talking senior management. The league is filled with idiots. Part of the reason is that it runs itself and hasn't required talented people. They get the absolute minimum out of the product that they have. Every time a situation arises they do the exact opposite of what makes sense. That's why these issues spin out of control. It's not just the popularity of the league but the idiots controlling the story. The flip side of it is that the NBA is paying about double for most of their staff. Senior management is probably similar but if you have an employee making $70K in the NFL, their counterpart in the NBA is making $140K. They take all of the talent. It doesn't shock me to read similar. How often have people typed "it's a $9B business... how are they cutting this corner?!?" I have to imagine that includes management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 This is slightly off topic, but why is the NFL so bad at running their business? They can't keep up with the times. I've been reading about the move to legalize sports gambling and the NBA (by miles the best run league) is all for it. Baseball and hockey are a little indifferent and the NFL is pushing back. They have ZERO foresight. They have a product that is idiotproof run by a bunch of idiots. If you took the NBA leadership from owners, gms, presidents and commissioner and flip flopped them with the NFL group the NBA would be out of business and the NFL would be twice as big. I've worked in both leagues and know 1,000+ people in both and the quality of mind in the NBA is so far superior to the morons around the NFL. Fortunately the Bills are an exception and have really intelligent people calling the shots (this may exclude the Pegulas). I'm telling you Aug, there are some morons. I am not talking about morons at the entry level, I am talking senior management. The league is filled with idiots. Part of the reason is that it runs itself and hasn't required talented people. They get the absolute minimum out of the product that they have. Every time a situation arises they do the exact opposite of what makes sense. That's why these issues spin out of control. It's not just the popularity of the league but the idiots controlling the story. The flip side of it is that the NBA is paying about double for most of their staff. Senior management is probably similar but if you have an employee making $70K in the NFL, their counterpart in the NBA is making $140K. They take all of the talent. That the NFL is "so bad at running their business" (especially over something like this issue) compared to the NBA is an interesting argument to make. The NFL brought in nearly 3 times the revenue that the NBA did last year (the NBA is much closer to the struggling NHL in revenue) and is by far the most popular sport in the country. It's revenue will likely double from 2010 to 2018. It has massive TV deals. It produces, consistently, the top rated network television shows every year. The NBA is a star-centered league that depends on front runner fans to follow about a dozen legitimate top players (stars) as they jump around the league. They were blessed with the perfect storm of LeBron vs Curry in the finals last year again. And in 2015, Game 6 of the Finals was the ONLY NBA game that cracked the top 50 sports broadcasts of the year (it was #40). The NFL had 43 of the top 50. The NBA owners are forced to pay insane guaranteed contracts to incredibly mediocre players. The NFL pays rookies--first rounders even, essentially nothing. Even the NFL players' "second contract" or free agent bonanza is a joke compared to some crappy 6th man's contract in the NBA. So how is it that the NBA is run so much better than the NFL? How did you conclude that? Also, why it is intuitive that paying the same level employee 140K gets you a better employee than the same level employee making 70K? And can we agree that neither group at that level is "running" either league? The NFL is run by 32 owners, their bag man Goodell and a handful of lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 But... "The Giants did nothing!" What do you fancy they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 What do you fancy they did? I was reproducing a comment by another poster. Scroll up/back. I don't care what they do with him. He's not AP, he's the friggin kicker. Surprised the Giants clung to this a-hole for so long. Old money is usually dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) That the NFL is "so bad at running their business" (especially over something like this issue) compared to the NBA is an interesting argument to make. The NFL brought in nearly 3 times the revenue that the NBA did last year (the NBA is much closer to the struggling NHL in revenue) and is by far the most popular sport in the country. It's revenue will likely double from 2010 to 2018. It has massive TV deals. It produces, consistently, the top rated network television shows every year. The NBA is a star-centered league that depends on front runner fans to follow about a dozen legitimate top players (stars) as they jump around the league. They were blessed with the perfect storm of LeBron vs Curry in the finals last year again. And in 2015, Game 6 of the Finals was the ONLY NBA game that cracked the top 50 sports broadcasts of the year (it was #40). The NFL had 43 of the top 50. The NBA owners are forced to pay insane guaranteed contracts to incredibly mediocre players. The NFL pays rookies--first rounders even, essentially nothing. Even the NFL players' "second contract" or free agent bonanza is a joke compared to some crappy 6th man's contract in the NBA. So how is it that the NBA is run so much better than the NFL? How did you conclude that? Also, why it is intuitive that paying the same level employee 140K gets you a better employee than the same level employee making 70K? And can we agree that neither group at that level is "running" either league? The NFL is run by 32 owners, their bag man Goodell and a handful of lawyers. I don't know where to begin on this but it's a direct result of the interest in the product not the decisions being made and the quality of people making them. Domestically the NFL is "idiotproof" as I have said. They are making a lot of money but leaving a ton on the table. If they had the same quality of people they would have a wider gap. NBA franchise values have tripled over the last 4 years!! They are capitalizing on opportunities with technology, internationally and by marketing their stars. They are recruiting the business folks from the same pool in most cases. If you were targeted by both and someone was going to pay you double, you go there. That's is what happens. WEO, I know that you are a smart guy and like to be the contrarian but this isn't that hard to figure out. They aren't starting with the same hand. If it were a poker game the NFL is holding Ace, King, the NBA and MLB maybe Jack, 9 and the NHL 7,2 (off suit). The NFL is more likely to win the pot because they are holding better cards. That isn't from good decisions that they made, its what the dealer (or the public in my example) gave them. Having Ace, King in your hand doesn't mean that you are a better poker player than the guys sitting next to you. In this example the NBA would get far more out of their Jack, 9 in the long run than the NFL would if dealt Jack, 9. The foresight, adaptability and quality of people being the reason. If you were to speak with a president at at NFL team I don't even think that they would argue it. The other point that I made earlier is that the NFL has it easy. They don't need the best people because the product keeps them going. They miss A LOT of opportunities though because they don't have the creators to stay out in front of what's next -they react, they don't innovate. They built a powerhouse of a league at the hands of the weakest union (or player's association) in sports. They have been able to push them around to line the owners pockets. It has created a league that is more evenly balanced (at least in theory) than the others. At the same time, it has led to far less money for the players while still facing the same risks. The game isn't heading in the right direction. At the exact same time that NBA team values have tripled. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/01/20/new-york-knicks-head-the-nbas-most-valuable-teams-at-3-billion/#748e0ceb2d3a I'd be happy to go further down the rabbit hole but don't want to bore everyone here. I try not to say this often but you need to trust me on this. I have 1st hand experience in both and know lots and lots of people around both leagues. This isn't really debated; it is accepted. FWIW, when I am talking about "the league" I am not referring just to the commissioner. In large part I am referring to the leadership of the franchises. The last thing is that the Bills are a bit of an exception. They have really, really strong people across the board. In part because they have had to be creative with their market and old stadium. They get about as much as they can out of it. If you handed Jim Irsay and company (as an example) the exact same situation they would do far worse. Edited October 22, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 The fact that idiot Goodell still has a job blows my mind. No human being would be given as chances to screw up in a major way like he has. He's awful. But Weo will defend him because he somehow gets the most popular American sport to "make money." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 The fact that idiot Goodell still has a job blows my mind. No human being would be given as chances to screw up in a major way like he has. He's awful. But Weo will defend him because he somehow gets the most popular American sport to "make money." The WEO argument is simple- he's doing what the 32 want and acting as the lightning rod.... now you get to hate on him instead of your owner. How much he freelances or sways the discussions, I'm not sure, but his continued employment seems to indicate he's not out of line with the expectations coming from the teams. Which may feed into kirbys statement that top leadership in most cities is lacking ability and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 @Eric_Edholm Owners reportedly unhappy with NFL over handling of Josh Brown case ... but why should they remain anonymous? http://sports.yahoo.com/news/owners-unhappy-with-nfl-over-josh-brown-but-why-do-they-remain-anonymous-175101140.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Kirby, your description of the NFL sounds like Florida. They were dealt a nice hand (warm, sunny beaches, Disney, ports, etc.) so they mostly just lived off the tourists for decades with gas taxes, sales taxes, bed taxes, etc. The current Governor (hated by many) thinks more like the NBA and has tried to expand the tax base with investment in new medical schools and other opportunities to bring in investment resulting in high paying jobs in growth industries. Sorry if that is an odd tangent, but it just jumped out....and makes a lot of sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I don't know where to begin on this but it's a direct result of the interest in the product not the decisions being made and the quality of people making them. Domestically the NFL is "idiotproof" as I have said. They are making a lot of money but leaving a ton on the table. If they had the same quality of people they would have a wider gap. NBA franchise values have tripled over the last 4 years!! They are capitalizing on opportunities with technology, internationally and by marketing their stars. They are recruiting the business folks from the same pool in most cases. If you were targeted by both and someone was going to pay you double, you go there. That's is what happens. WEO, I know that you are a smart guy and like to be the contrarian but this isn't that hard to figure out. They aren't starting with the same hand. If it were a poker game the NFL is holding Ace, King, the NBA and MLB maybe Jack, 9 and the NHL 7,2 (off suit). The NFL is more likely to win the pot because they are holding better cards. That isn't from good decisions that they made, its what the dealer (or the public in my example) gave them. Having Ace, King in your hand doesn't mean that you are a better poker player than the guys sitting next to you. In this example the NBA would get far more out of their Jack, 9 in the long run than the NFL would if dealt Jack, 9. The foresight, adaptability and quality of people being the reason. If you were to speak with a president at at NFL team I don't even think that they would argue it. The other point that I made earlier is that the NFL has it easy. They don't need the best people because the product keeps them going. They miss A LOT of opportunities though because they don't have the creators to stay out in front of what's next -they react, they don't innovate. They built a powerhouse of a league at the hands of the weakest union (or player's association) in sports. They have been able to push them around to line the owners pockets. It has created a league that is more evenly balanced (at least in theory) than the others. At the same time, it has led to far less money for the players while still facing the same risks. The game isn't heading in the right direction. At the exact same time that NBA team values have tripled. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/01/20/new-york-knicks-head-the-nbas-most-valuable-teams-at-3-billion/#748e0ceb2d3a I'd be happy to go further down the rabbit hole but don't want to bore everyone here. I try not to say this often but you need to trust me on this. I have 1st hand experience in both and know lots and lots of people around both leagues. This isn't really debated; it is accepted. FWIW, when I am talking about "the league" I am not referring just to the commissioner. In large part I am referring to the leadership of the franchises. The last thing is that the Bills are a bit of an exception. They have really, really strong people across the board. In part because they have had to be creative with their market and old stadium. They get about as much as they can out of it. If you handed Jim Irsay and company (as an example) the exact same situation they would do far worse. Kirby I know you have been in the business and know more than me or probably anyone else here, so I do read carefully your comments on these these topics and respect them. Yes the NFL "sells itself", but it has been challenged by the rise of the popularity if the NBA (the second rise, I would say--it's heyday being the early Bird/MJ to the later Shaq days) and has really blown away the NBA in terms of revenue and viewers. Team valuations are tricky to use as benchmarks as so few teams change hands in either league. Revenue, however, is revenue. The NBA is bringing annually what the NFL was making 15 years ago. There is no question that, despite "selling itself" and having a reputation of being "idiot proof", the league has accelerated the power of its brands revenue making by 3 fold. That's not by accident or by poor management. It can't be. As for the valuation of the Knicks (for example), NBA teams (and MLB) are able to secure their own TV deals--even have their own networks. That is why the Knicks (and the Dodgers) are valued so high. What would happen to the Cowboys value (or the Steelers) if it could show its games exclusively on its own network? The fact that the NFL consistently extracts more money for themselves and limits that available for players is proof of the power and skill of the people who run the league--it's certainly not indicative of incompetence. Same for the guaranteed contracts NBA owners are saddled with and will never get rid of in CBA. And the salary cap for the NBA next season will be nearly 100 million---for a roster of 14 guys! Compare that for the NFL with 53. NBA cost of doing business vs revenue is inferior to the NFL. The fact that idiot Goodell still has a job blows my mind. No human being would be given as chances to screw up in a major way like he has. He's awful. But Weo will defend him because he somehow gets the most popular American sport to "make money." You only prove over and over that you don't, in a very basic sense, understand the role of Goodell. Why do the owners remain anonymous? Simple--this way they get to say "something" about the scourge or domestic violence without exposing their own team's skeletons in the closet to scrutiny. They are all a bit dirty and don't want to go through what squeaky clean Mara is dealing with now. Speaking of Goodall (and Mara), who do you think was telling "the League" to keep the Giants kicker's problems quiet. Hint: it wasn't Goodell.... None of this is really that hard to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Kirby I know you have been in the business and know more than me or probably anyone else here, so I do read carefully your comments on these these topics and respect them. Yes the NFL "sells itself", but it has been challenged by the rise of the popularity if the NBA (the second rise, I would say--it's heyday being the early Bird/MJ to the later Shaq days) and has really blown away the NBA in terms of revenue and viewers. Team valuations are tricky to use as benchmarks as so few teams change hands in either league. Revenue, however, is revenue. The NBA is bringing annually what the NFL was making 15 years ago. There is no question that, despite "selling itself" and having a reputation of being "idiot proof", the league has accelerated the power of its brands revenue making by 3 fold. That's not by accident or by poor management. It can't be. As for the valuation of the Knicks (for example), NBA teams (and MLB) are able to secure their own TV deals--even have their own networks. That is why the Knicks (and the Dodgers) are valued so high. What would happen to the Cowboys value (or the Steelers) if it could show its games exclusively on its own network? The fact that the NFL consistently extracts more money for themselves and limits that available for players is proof of the power and skill of the people who run the league--it's certainly not indicative of incompetence. Same for the guaranteed contracts NBA owners are saddled with and will never get rid of in CBA. And the salary cap for the NBA next season will be nearly 100 million---for a roster of 14 guys! Compare that for the NFL with 53. NBA cost of doing business vs revenue is inferior to the NFL. You only prove over and over that you don't, in a very basic sense, understand the role of Goodell. Why do the owners remain anonymous? Simple--this way they get to say "something" about the scourge or domestic violence without exposing their own team's skeletons in the closet to scrutiny. They are all a bit dirty and don't want to go through what squeaky clean Mara is dealing with now. Speaking of Goodall (and Mara), who do you think was telling "the League" to keep the Giants kicker's problems quiet. Hint: it wasn't Goodell.... None of this is really that hard to follow. The NFL isn't challenged and doesn't have an equal. The point that I am making is if you flip flopped the leadership, you would see larger growth in the NFL. A lot of the ability by the NBA (and now Manfred's MLB) is out of necessity. Of course they can negotiate local TV deals. If the NFL didn't have a national TV contract and revenue sharing it wouldn't be as popular. The league playing once a week, on the weekend, make it much easier to execute this. The NFL has inherent advantages (as does college football). I think that Augie's Florida argument is really, really strong. Florida has inherent advantages vs. Oregon as an example. That doesn't mean that they are better operating the state. Necessity has driven a lot of these things. There is some arrogance on the NBA side as well. They will take some chances because they believe in their leadership. As they are proven right, others follow suit. The way that they have embraced social media and the rest of the world are examples. The daily fantasy and gambling are the same. Those things are coming, the public wants them. Stop trying to fight the inevitable and get on board. Get ahead of it don't always be playing catch up. The NFL has the luxury of reacting because of their inherent advantages. You don't need the same quality of people though when you aren't creating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 @SurvivinAmerica Why I couldn't "shut up" about Mara's callous stance on domestic violence... https://t.co/vKEjNOeOfN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Giants have released Josh Brown http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/giants-kicker-josh-brown-struck-wife/story?id=43047684&cid=abcn_tco Edited October 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Guess they finally got enough blowback Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m7 minutes ago In statement, Giants prez John Mara says: “Our beliefs, our judgments and our decisions were misguided. We accept that responsibility." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Guess they finally got enough blowback Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m7 minutes ago In statement, Giants prez John Mara says: “Our beliefs, our judgments and our decisions were misguided. We accept that responsibility." You mean they caved in to mob rule mentality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 You mean they caved in to mob rule mentality? Lost money and in his statement made a point to talk about a Shelter they are partnered with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Guess they finally got enough blowback Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m7 minutes ago In statement, Giants prez John Mara says: “Our beliefs, our judgments and our decisions were misguided. We accept that responsibility." Ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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