jms62 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Oh, OK. I misunderstood. They need to draft another QB this year, again, and keeping drafting until you get someone. IMO How about some wide receivers that can stay on the field so we can judge the QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I am not ready to give up on Rex, however I do have to admit having a combo of Hue and Schwartz sounds pretty good right about now. What Schwartz is doing for Philly is exactly what we need right now on defense and ironically is exactly what he did for us in his one year here too. I don't think I have ever missed a Coordinator as much as I miss Schwartz. Hue tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 How about some wide receivers that can stay on the field so we can judge the QB A big thing about this is you cannot just dismiss the fact that this team is missing key important players......on both sides of the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 A big thing about this is you cannot just dismiss the fact that this team is missing key important players......on both sides of the ball With all the hooplah about Sammy folks missing that the Clay signing looks atrocious at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 With all the hooplah about Sammy folks missing that the Clay signing looks atrocious at this point. I agree with this one. Think it is the biggest mistake we have made personnel wise the last 3 or 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I like Whaley overall. Instead of hiring a football czar I would like to see Pegula hire a quarterback czar. Use Pegula bucks to bring in the best quarterback scout in the country and empower him to recommend players to Whaley and assist in finding the right prospect or player. Other than not having found a QB we have a good roster when healthy. Tyrod could be the guy but we need to start looking now in case he doesn't perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I agree with this one. Think it is the biggest mistake we have made personnel wise the last 3 or 4 years. He needs to start getting the ball no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Hue tho Based on what Schwartz did with our defense I cannot fathom anyway that he was going to stay here and remain a coordinator if they hired another coach. I believe that based upon what he did with the Bills D that he felt that he deserved another shot at head coach. I can't fault him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Whaley has been an average GM. We've seen better(Polian/Butler/Donahoe) and worse (Marv/Russ/Buddy) in the past 25 years. They could do better but the main difference is that the others all got to choose their coach. Russ essentially chose the Bills current coach. And I'm not one of those who thinks that Rex is hopeless but I think Whaley has had to adapt to what Rex wants and not so much the other way around. The proper way to critique the Bills is as an ORGANIZATION. They are a bad organization. It's undeniable. Hopefully that changes, and most of it is because Ralph was a terrible football man and the losing culture he created lingers.........but two decades without a playoff game at the Ralph, 16 with none AT ALL and 50+ years without a SB title pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 How about some wide receivers that can stay on the field so we can judge the QB A quality QB will make average WR look good . Above average WR will look below average with a bad QB. We can still judge Taylor with whoever the Bills have available to line up on Sunday. So far, he has been unable to consistently get the ball to his best WR and TE. He's going to need to be even better now. We didn't see it last Sunday. Whaley' s worst failure to date is still not finding a good QB. I hope Taylor proves it on the field and makes picking up his contract the obvious choice. If the season ended today, the Bills would be crazy to commit nearly $ 40 million over next two years to Taylor. Based on what Schwartz did with our defense I cannot fathom anyway that he was going to stay here and remain a coordinator if they hired another coach. I believe that based upon what he did with the Bills D that he felt that he deserved another shot at head coach. I can't fault him for that. And yet he is a D coordinator in 2017. I believe Schwartz would have stuck around with the right head coach ( aka an Offensive HC that believed in JS system and didn't want to tinker with the best part of the team ) and padded his resume for another year to seek a HC position in 2017 or beyond. He left because his philosophy on D was like oil and water with Rex's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Agree with some of this but don't agree with the statement that this young talented GM needs some help in the form of an older, experienced football man. Here is IMO how it works if a GM is "young and taleneted" has been with the franchise for years. growing up under the watchful eye of gm Buddy Nix as assitant GM, promoted to gm. And called young and talented but still needs a older football mind for HELP. IMO it is an indictement of just how poor of a GM he is today. These guys are replaceable. For a recent example I give you the Eagles. And their possible turnaround in ONE year. At least their future seems brighter today than the Bills. Good young execs, or GM's typically don't need some hire to look over his shoulder and essentially take away some if not all of Whaley's GM power. No confident GM would even stay if that happened. To me that is saying Whaley is a pay grade above where he should be. Whaley like the entire franchise is medicore but at times approaches average. We need the older experienced football man as a GM. Not a babysitter. Yes i am fully aware of the several good acquisitions he has made. Most GM's grab a few good players. he cannot fnd a QB to save his life. Among other positions. That is on him. Sorry Whaley is well entrenched in this franchises culture from top to bottom of fail. Pegula needs to get the broom out. no time to babysit a gm who has had the gig for a few years. An assistant before being annointed GM. a scout for a nice part of this 16+ year losing cycle. then I question the committment of this owner too truly build a winning powerhouse NFL team for years to come. By keeping executives that are regressing not turning this around. My reasoning in that Whaley needed help from an actual experienced NFL above him is because he was being taught by not so bright people. Just look at his tenure with the Buffalo Bills and in that time who was teaching him the right moves in building an NFL winning team? Marv Levy who was a good NFL HC but never meant to be an NFL team GM. Buddy Nix who might have been a decent chief scout but if the man reaches 70 years old and retires while not ever being offered an NFL GM job you have to think why? Ralph Wilson hired Nix out of retirement and I can only think it's because the man was easily manipulated by the owner in doing his bidding without much debate. Simply looking Buddy Nix's idea of how to build an offensive line leads me to believe he wasn't very bright. Any OT can play OG and how did that work with Erik Pears at RG? OG's are a dime a dozen and bigger is better so how did that work with Colin Brown, Sam Young, and Cornell Green? How did finding the franchise that elite NFL starting QB work out? How many games did the team win with Nix as GM? That baby was stillborn at 6-10! Then looking at the last two head coaching hires and while we know that Whaley was involved we also know that neither was his actual choice for head coach. If the team wouldn't allow the GM to make the choice on the HC it makes me wonder what other choices he wasn't allowed to make as GM? To me, it's rather unsettling to see the team's president / managing partner and ex-CEO sitting in the teams cut room meetings and on the phone to UDFA's. Isn't that the GM's job or perhaps even the assistant GM's job? So, at this point, us fans really don't know exactly how much of the GM's choices were actually the GM's choices. I would like to see the man get another season with just him making the all the GM decisions and keep the owners, the HC and the marketing / finance president out of those football decisions. Mostly because I would really not like it to see him fired in Buffalo and go on to be successful with another team because he was being held back here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 And what about the backup QB situation that year? They sat on their hands and were satisfied with Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel behind EJ.... It essentially cost them the season. They handled that badly...of that there is no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I think the opposite. The way he is playing makes that deal look very sensible. I'd like you to expand on your thoughts on the contract. The team essentially threw money at TT for this season and then inflated the numbers on his new contract. In doing so they not only gave away 6 or so million for this season they threw away their ability to go into camp next year with a serviceable QB who at the worst provides a floor at the position. Say TT had a great year...which no one outside of Buffalo was fearful of....then pay him. Why push these gigantic numbers in year two for a player that had so much to prove? Hope it wasn't because he is a nice guy and comes to work each day.... Now next year you bank up or bust out and then the team is sitting there staring at Cardale in TC as the presumed starter. The other side of the coin was TT not improving and continuing to show the same symptoms of an athlete playing QB and not a QB playing QB...then you could have bumped him up a few million and offered your team an acceptable floor heading into TC. I like Cardale, I wanted him drafted. He may or may not be ahead of TT next TC but I wouldn't have thrown away millions so I could find that out so soon. I think the opposite. The way he is playing makes that deal look very sensible. I'd like you to expand on your thoughts on the contract. The team essentially threw money at TT for this season and then inflated the numbers on his new contract. In doing so they not only gave away 6 or so million for this season they threw away their ability to go into camp next year with a serviceable QB who at the worst provides a floor at the position. Say TT had a great year...which no one outside of Buffalo was fearful of....then pay him. Why push these gigantic numbers in year two for a player that had so much to prove? Hope it wasn't because he is a nice guy and comes to work each day.... Now next year you bank up or bust out and then the team is sitting there staring at Cardale in TC as the presumed starter. The other side of the coin was TT not improving and continuing to show the same symptoms of an athlete playing QB and not a QB playing QB...then you could have bumped him up a few million and offered your team an acceptable floor heading into TC. I like Cardale, I wanted him drafted. He may or may not be ahead of TT next TC but I wouldn't have thrown away millions so I could find that out so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I was thinking of starting another Whaley sucks thread, but I can't think of an angle or title that hasn't been used at least once. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) And what about the backup QB situation that year? They sat on their hands and were satisfied with Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel behind EJ.... It essentially cost them the season. Who was available that year that did better? The only one I see is Hoyer. 3,326 yards 12 tds 13 ints in 14 games Orton had 3,018 yards 18 tds 10 ints in 12 games. Orton was essentially better than all of the free agent QBs (not saying much) Edit (my bad I grabbed a 2013 list) Quarterbacks 1. Michael Vick (Signed one-year, $5M deal with NYJ) 2. Mark Sanchez (Signed one-year, $2.25M deal with PHI) 3. Josh McCown (Signed two-year, $10M deal with TB) 4. Matt Cassel (Re-signed two-year, $10M deal with MIN) 5. Josh Freeman (Signed one-year deal with NYG) 6. Shaun Hill (Signed one-year, $1.75M deal with STL) 7. Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $7.5M deal with HOU) 8. Jason Campbell (Signed one-year, $1.5M deal with CIN) 9. Chad Henne (Re-signed two-year, $8M deal with JAX) 10. Tarvaris Jackson (Re-signed one-year, $1.25M deal with SEA) 11. Kevin Kolb 12. Brandon Weeden (Signed two-year, $1.53M deal with DAL) 13. Colt McCoy (Signed one-year, $795K deal with WAS) 14. Matt Flynn (Re-signed one-year deal with GB) 15. Kellen Clemens (Signed two-year, $3M deal with SD) 16. Luke McCown (Re-signed one-year, $920K deal with NO) 17. Derek Anderson (Re-signed two-year, $2.564M deal with CAR) 18. David Garrard 19. Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $920K deal with DET) 20. Rex Grossman 21. Curtis Painter (Re-signed one-year, $795K deal with NYG) 22. Charlie Whitehurst (Signed two-year, $4M deal with TEN) If you are talking trade then let's talk trade - who was available to trade for and what are you willing to give up for him? Edited October 2, 2016 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Who was available that year that did better? The only one I see is Hoyer. 3,326 yards 12 tds 13 ints in 14 games Orton had 3,018 yards 18 tds 10 ints in 12 games. Orton was essentially better than all of the free agent QBs Matt Moore [/size]Tarvaris Jackson [/size]Jason Campbell [/size]David Garrard [/size]Josh Johnson [/size]Byron Leftwich [/size]Brady Quinn [/size]Vince Young [/size]Matt Leinart [/size]Rex Grossman [/size]David Carr [/size]Derek Anderson [/size]Drew Stanton [/size]Chase Daniel [/size]Brian Hoyer [/size]Charlie Batch [/size]Bruce Gradkowski [/size]Kellen Clemens [/size]Tyler Thigpen [/size]Josh McCown [/size]Sage Rosenfels [/size]Seneca Wallace [/size]Donovan McNabb [/size]A.J. Feeley [/size]Troy Smith [/size]Luke McCown [/size]Chris Redman [/size]John Beck [/size]Jordan Palmer [/size]J.P. Losman [/size]Kevin O'Connell[/size] If you are talking trade then let's talk trade - who was available to trade for and what are you willing to give up for him? You left me out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) I was thinking of starting another Whaley sucks thread, but I can't think of an angle or title that hasn't been used at least once. Any suggestions?You could always talk about his poor communication skills. Also, it's been awhile since anyone ranted about his inability to get along with coaching staffs. Whatever you do end up with, I will definitely check it out. Edited October 2, 2016 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. How anyone can disagree with this post is beyond me; what is the color of the sky on your planet? Ten years of terrible drafting and sub par play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Who was available that year that did better? They CUT.....Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tarvaris Jackson.........two notably better NFL QB's than Tuel and Thad. You are just a silly, silly poster. So much effort while COMPLETELY missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) They CUT.....Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tarvaris Jackson.........two notably better NFL QB's than Tuel and Thad. You are just a silly, silly poster. So much effort while COMPLETELY missing the point. Lol Tarvaris Jackson? Seriously? I'll agree on Fitzpatrick but then we should never have released him. He wasn't the future, but he certainly wasn't worse than Kolb. There is no way they resign him a year after they cut him and are still recouping from the dead money though. But yeah, I am missing the point haha. Edited October 2, 2016 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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