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Debate: Round I - 26 Sept 20:00 EST on Fox

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Debate Round I  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Who won

    • Clinton
      23
    • Trump
      17

  2. 2. Did the first debate affect your vote

    • Yes - I was leaning Trump but am now leaning Clinton
      2
    • Yes - I was leaning Clinton but am now leaning Trump
      0
    • Yes - I was leaning Clinton but am now leaning 3rd Party
      0
    • Yes - I was leaning Trump but am now leaning 3rd Party
      0
    • Yes - I was leaning 3rd Party but am now leaning Clinton
      2
    • Yes - I was leaning 3rd Party but am now leaning Trump
      2
    • No - I was leaning Clinton and still am
      7
    • No - I was leaning Trump and still am
      15
    • No - I was leaning 3rd Party and still am
      12

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Prickly Pete Veteran

Prickly Pete

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

And that sentiment is wrong. On this issue, both American political parties should be in lockstep on border security and orderly legal immigration except that one party

 

Explain it to Magox, Benny, and Dr. K.

 

People of Color are being used as pawns.

Edited by HoF Watkins
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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

Posted
Posted

He sure kills a lot of non-whites.

 

To be fair, ISIS has its share of whites, as well. Not all Islamic fundamentalists are brown.

 

You know what was one of the biggest fears for a long time after 9/11? Blond-and-blue Islamic fundamentalists from the Balkans, with a decade's training and experience in terrorism and an extreme hatred of the west from the mess the breakup of Yugoslavia caused. Turns out it's tough to profile a Bosnian Muslim, since Americans are idiots who think all terrorists are sand !@#$s.

People of Color are being used as pawns.

 

When hasn't that been true? (Hint: See "War, Civil.")

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

Posted
Posted

 

Only if you apply the a priori assumption of "he hates white and Christians" to every action, then ignore the vast amount of stupid **** he does that has nothing to do with whites or Christians.

 

Case in point of "stupid **** he does that has nothing to do with whites or Christians"...

We also have to look east, because increasingly the center of gravity in this world is shifting to Asia. Japan has been an outstanding ally of ours for many years, but obviously China is rising, and it’s not going away. They’re neither our enemy nor our friend. They’re competitors.

 

Obama, 2008

 

 

Navy Times, September 26
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B-Man Hall of Famer

B-Man

Posted
Posted

Many will disagree, but he is arguing from a different angle.

 

 

How Donald Trump Won the Debate

by Scott Pinkser

 

FTA:

 

Trump’s genius is in branding. He’s probably the best branding expert in modern political history. He’s astonishingly good at it.

Jeb Bush is “low energy.” Donald Trump is a “winner.” Ted Cruz is “lyin’.” Hillary Clinton is “crooked.” Marco Rubio is “little” and a “choker.”

We could argue about the accuracy of his branding, but that’s irrelevant. Political campaigns are a perception-driven enterprise. And in the first presidential debate, Donald Trump out-branded Hillary Clinton.

 

It wasn’t even close.

 

Throughout the GOP primaries, all the so-called political experts on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and the major networks were dumbfounded: How is it that Trump could perform so poorly in the dozen-or-so TV debates, yet continue to win when ballots are cast? The New York billionaire never won a debate in the eyes of these experts – but inexplicably kept winning elections! What gives?

 

It’s because Trump recognizes that the goal isn’t to “win” a second-by-second, or minute-by-minute, or point-by-point policy debate. It’s to brand yourself – and also brand others – in a way that positions your candidacy for electoral success.

 

In the first presidential debate, Hillary Clinton won a healthy plurality of the minute-by-minute political barbs, especially in the second-half. She had Trump on the defense. She stuck to her talking points like her husband sticks to an intern; Trump went off-message and was prone to rambling.

 

So if you were scoring this debate like Luntz did – or if you were scoring it like a Las Vegas boxing judge – then Hillary Clinton won in a landslide.

But ask yourself this question: How did Trump brand himself?

 

Well, he’s certainly the nontraditional candidate on the ballot. He’s new. He’s an outsider. He’s exciting. He doesn’t talk or act like a traditional politician. He’s a businessman – and he strongly believes that America is heading in the wrong direction, and desperately needs change.

 

How was Hillary Clinton branded?

 

She’s the politician who has been talking about the same issues for 30 years… without solving any of them. She’s a member of the political elite. She talks and sounds just like all the other politicians. She’s smug, smart and self-satisfied, and clearly believes that those of us who are not members of the political elite are beneath her.

 

Yes, Hillary Clinton is prepared – but she’s prepared to continue the status quo.

 

Now, ask yourself: After the debate, which of these aforementioned brand attributes were cemented?

For Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump… pretty much all of ‘em.

 

In politics – and in branding – it’s not what you say, but how you make people feel.

 

Trump understands this. He’s a genius at destination branding.

 

This is why Trump tends to do poorly when people like Luntz grade a debate mere moments after it’s over, but does much better a few days later, when voters can reflect on their impressions: When we remember all that what was said and done, we recall the emotive elements more clearly than the second-by-second comparisons.

 

This is the gap that will decide the election: An empathy gap.

 

Long after the debate is over, you “feel” that Trump understands that the country is headed in the wrong direction. You “feel” that Trump is genuinely outraged by America’s decline, and come hell or high water, he’ll dedicate his presidency to making America great again. You “feel” that Trump is an authentic, one-of-a-kind outsider with unbridled bravado. You “feel” that Trump will shake-up the status quo and implement real, long-lasting changes. From immigration to trade, from waging war on ISIS to renegotiating trade bills, from creating jobs to restoring law and order, Donald Trump “feels” what we feel.

 

That’s the brand he built – and is continuing to build.

 

It’s an eye-popping contrast to the brand Hillary Clinton is building (both on her own and with Trump’s support): Hillary is the ultimate DC insider who knows everything better than we do. She looks down on people like us. Yes, she knows all of the issues and all of the problems facing our country… but only because she’s been talking about them for 30 years, instead of actually solving them. She deserves the White House, dammit… and shame on those racist, sexist, xenophobic “deplorables” for making her work so hard for it!

 

Her utter lack of empathy is Mrs. Clinton’s fatal flaw: We don’t care how much she knows, because we know she doesn’t care about us.

 

On a visceral, emotive level, we’ve felt this all along about Hillary. It’s why a junior senator from Illinois came out of nowhere and beat her in 2008. It’s why an over-aged socialist nearly toppled her in 2016: Say what you want about Bernie Sanders, but he was 100 percent authentic in his beliefs – because he genuinely desired to transform America.

 

But Hillary Clinton is all about Hillary Clinton. Always has been. Always will be.

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/28/how-donald-trump-won-the-debate/

 

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Magox Hall of Famer

Magox

Posted
Posted

 

They feel it is their land, and it was taken from them. And they feel any and all Mexicans should be able to live in the US. This is their sentiment, across the board.

 

 

Thanks for this post, now I know not to take anything you say moving forward seriously.

 

And that sentiment is wrong. On this issue, both American political parties should be in lockstep on border security and orderly legal immigration except that one party sees it as the greatest voter registration program of all time.

 

 

 

Yes, both parties should be for strengthening border security and orderly legal immigration. The problem is twofold:

 

Progressives don't care about border security and just want to pander to Latino's for votes, and Right wingers don't want to address the issue of all the illegals are here, and to boot they talk down of them as if they are some sort of cockroach infesting and invading their home.

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

Posted
Posted

 

You have the gall to criticize one dumbass comment from Johnson, yet you are one of the biggest Trump humpers on this board?

 

Really?

 

Really????

 

 

:w00t:

 

 

For being a Doc, you are one dim light bulb. It is clear as day to anyone who isn't a raging right wing partisan that Ben is a straight down the middle voter who would be inclined to vote for a R if that candidate showed himself to hold some moderate values.

 

No, it makes YOU sound like the moron.

 

And you're one dim light bulb if I haven't made it clear as day to you by now that I support Trump because he is the lesser of two evils. And make no mistake about it, there are only 2 choices in this election. I know you fancy that voting 3rd party makes you one of the cool kids (:lol:), but it doesn't. It's a wasted vote at best, and one less vote to prevent LIAR from getting into office and continuing Barry's 3rd and 4th terms. So you need to ask yourself which is more important to you.

 

As for Johnson, I've heard him and I have no idea what anyone sees in him except that he's not Trump or LIAR. But again, he has no shot.

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Magox Hall of Famer

Magox

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

And you're one dim light bulb if I haven't made it clear as day to you by now that I support Trump because he is the lesser of two evils. And make no mistake about it, there are only 2 choices in this election. I know you fancy that voting 3rd party makes you one of the cool kids ( :lol:), but it doesn't. It's a wasted vote at best, and one less vote to prevent LIAR from getting into office and continuing Barry's 3rd and 4th terms. So you need to ask yourself which is more important to you.

 

As for Johnson, I've heard him and I have no idea what anyone sees in him except that he's not Trump or LIAR. But again, he has no shot.

 

 

Nope, not buying it and I don't give a **** if you don't care that I'm not buying it. I've seen your posts, they aren't just anti Hillary, they are pro Trump and consistently so. Don't be ashamed about it, own it. Go with it!

 

And if I had to vote between Hillary or Trump, I'd rather have Hillary than Trump because

 

A) he literally is a know-nothing

B) he's a narcissistic clown

C) he is much more liberal than you believe him to be

D) you can't trust anything he says

E) he's an embarrassment to the country

F) I don't trust him with Nukes

G) he'd end up being impeached for overreach of power

H) he's an authoritarian and would have absolutely no regard for the constitution

I) he's a demonizing boob

J) he isn't an inclusive person

K) he's a racist

L) he's a misogynist

M) he's a bigot

N) he's thin-skinned and would rather talk about himself than the issues at hand

 

I could go on for hours.

 

Thank your lucky stars that my vote won't go to her, because I can't stand her either.

 

Johnson does have no shot at winning, but people like me don't identify with either progressive or the right wing. I practically dislike both equally.

 

I want there to be more choices and I believe that the two party system is broke.

 

So yeah, although Johnson is a poor candidate, in my view he's better than either of the other two.

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grinreaper Veteran

grinreaper

Posted
Posted

 

 

Nope, not buying it and I don't give a **** if you don't care that I'm not buying it. I've seen your posts, they aren't just anti Hillary, they are pro Trump and consistently so. Don't be ashamed about it, own it. Go with it!

 

And if I had to vote between Hillary or Trump, I'd rather have Hillary than Trump because

 

A) he literally is a know-nothing

B) he's a narcissistic clown

C) he is much more liberal than you believe him to be

D) you can't trust anything he says

E) he's an embarrassment to the country

F) I don't trust him with Nukes

G) he'd end up being impeached for overreach of power

H) he's an authoritarian and would have absolutely no regard for the constitution

I) he's a demonizing boob

J) he isn't an inclusive person

K) he's a racist

L) he's a misogynist

M) he's a bigot

N) he's thin-skinned and would rather talk about himself than the issues at hand

 

I could go on for hours.

 

Thank your lucky stars that my vote won't go to her, because I can't stand her either.

 

Johnson does have no shot at winning, but people like me don't identify with either progressive or the right wing. I practically dislike both equally.

 

I want there to be more choices and I believe that the two party system is broke.

 

So yeah, although Johnson is a poor candidate, in my view he's better than either of the other two.

What a wonderful description of Obama.

 

 

A) he literally is a know-nothing

B) he's a narcissistic clown

C) he is much more liberal than you believe him to be

D) you can't trust anything he says

E) he's an embarrassment to the country

F) I don't trust him with Nukes

G) he'd end up being impeached for overreach of power

H) he's an authoritarian and would have absolutely no regard for the constitution

I) he's a demonizing boob

J) he isn't an inclusive person

K) he's a racist

L) he's a misogynist

M) he's a bigot

N) he's thin-skinned and would rather talk about himself than the issues at hand

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Magox Hall of Famer

Magox

Posted
Posted

What a wonderful description of Obama.

 

 

A) he literally is a know-nothing

B) he's a narcissistic clown

C) he is much more liberal than you believe him to be

D) you can't trust anything he says

E) he's an embarrassment to the country

F) I don't trust him with Nukes

G) he'd end up being impeached for overreach of power

H) he's an authoritarian and would have absolutely no regard for the constitution

I) he's a demonizing boob

J) he isn't an inclusive person

K) he's a racist

L) he's a misogynist

M) he's a bigot

N) he's thin-skinned and would rather talk about himself than the issues at hand

 

Not nearly as much as Trump.

 

I'd rather have Obama than Trump, hell, i'd rather have just about anyone over Trump. He is as bad as you get.

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

Posted
Posted

 

Not nearly as much as Trump.

 

I'd rather have Obama than Trump, hell, i'd rather have just about anyone over Trump. He is as bad as you get.

 

Funny thing is, those are exactly the reasons I'm voting for Trump.

 

He's a four year civics lesson on the reasons we need checks and balances, and a small government.

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keepthefaith All Pro

keepthefaith

Posted
Posted

What a wonderful description of Obama.

 

 

A) he literally is a know-nothing

B) he's a narcissistic clown

C) he is much more liberal than you believe him to be

D) you can't trust anything he says

E) he's an embarrassment to the country

F) I don't trust him with Nukes

G) he'd end up being impeached for overreach of power

H) he's an authoritarian and would have absolutely no regard for the constitution

I) he's a demonizing boob

J) he isn't an inclusive person

K) he's a racist

L) he's a misogynist

M) he's a bigot

N) he's thin-skinned and would rather talk about himself than the issues at hand

 

Yes but regarding "F" the lack of trust is that you couldn't trust him to use them if it became necessary.

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