The Big Cat Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) Do these four players make a difference in last night's outcome? I'm perplexed by the Alex Smithing we got last night, and just like last year, that's on Rex. When a QB is picking you a part, you gotta go to something new, and on the first drive, under pressure, Fitz was helpless. Then we we stopped blitzing. Tough to explain that one. But could the injection of our marquee personnel have made a difference? Jerry Hughes can only do so much. Preston Brown had some great moments, and at other times he looked lost. Did Zac Brown even play? We have reason to be pissed about the scheme, but I can't help but think that we just didn't have the ponies last night to compete against a QB that was so on point (who expected that). On the flipside, the offense is a tire fire and it's because defensive coordinators, after 14 starts and an offseason, know how to completely neutralize Tyrod Taylor. So let's at least look at the pieces we DO have (the titular names minus Lawson 2 (who I believe they're waiting to heal so they can sign him again)). Edited September 16, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Dareus - yes, he is an impact player that changes games. shaq - maybe. we needed rush but young edge players are hit and miss. cant just assume the best. ragland - possibly (not sure he outplays brown this early) manny - possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yes we absolutely missed those guys. A secondary depends on the front 7 more than people realize. The secondary was atrocious last night, not all because of who we were missing, but those guys not there in the front 7 certainly made their job harder and changed what we can do in terms of scheme too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I think they would have helped but leaving our corners in man to man with no safeties to help and LBs not dropping deep in to coverage were the 2 biggest problems last night Yes we absolutely missed those guys. A secondary depends on the front 7 more than people realize. The secondary was atrocious last night, not all because of who we were missing, but those guys not there in the front 7 certainly made their job harder and changed what we can do in terms of scheme too. but Rex didn't change anything. He should have played more zone to help the corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yes we absolutely missed those guys. A secondary depends on the front 7 more than people realize. The secondary was atrocious last night, not all because of who we were missing, but those guys not there in the front 7 certainly made their job harder and changed what we can do in terms of scheme too. Let it also be known that Fitz played the best game of his career, and it wasn't even close. So, yes, the front seven made things difficult on the secondary, but so did the second coming of Roger Stalbach. All during half time I was preaching to anyone who would listen at the bar that he has a tendency to normalize and after a red hot start was primed for some stinkers. Those just never. happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) It makes a huge difference not having those guys. No pressure on Fitzy at all, and I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that with at least Dareus and Shaq you would've at least touched Fitzy a few times ... Manny Lawson too. Edited September 16, 2016 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Let it also be known that Fitz played the best game of his career, and it wasn't even close. So, yes, the front seven made things difficult on the secondary, but so did the second coming of Roger Stalbach. All during half time I was preaching to anyone who would listen at the bar that he has a tendency to normalize and after a red hot start was primed for some stinkers. Those just never. happened. Fitz was certainly on fire last night, and his WR's made some very difficult catches. The Jets came in with a chip on their shoulder, I'm sure. I completely agree with you about Rex and co. not adjusting to what the Jets were doing. Inexcusable. I get Fitz was on fire, but our scheme contributed to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 Dareus - yes, he is an impact player that changes games. shaq - maybe. we needed rush but young edge players are hit and miss. cant just assume the best. ragland - possibly (not sure he outplays brown this early) manny - possibly Brown plays okay, but on the occasions when he DOESN'T over pursue the hole and have to grab the RB from behind, he gets carried several yards downfield after contact. If Ragland is the thumper he's been billed at, a lot of 3-5 yard runs last night would have gone for 0 to -2. I turned to my buddy several times and noted precisely this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Let it also be known that Fitz played the best game of his career, and it wasn't even close. So, yes, the front seven made things difficult on the secondary, but so did the second coming of Roger Stalbach. All during half time I was preaching to anyone who would listen at the bar that he has a tendency to normalize and after a red hot start was primed for some stinkers. Those just never. happened. but thats what you get out of a decent vet qb that is comfortable in the pocket. he needed to be forced to move around, and alter his feet, and his release point, and keep more of an eye on the rush than just looking downfield. you let a smart, vet, nfl qb play with no pressure, a lead and huge WRs.... he will be able to throw safe, easy throws all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) Do these four players make a difference in last night's outcome? I'm perplexed by the Alex Smithing we got last night, and just like last year, that's on Rex. When a QB is picking you a part, you gotta go to something new, and on the first drive, under pressure, Fitz was helpless. Then we we stopped blitzing. Tough to explain that one. But could the injection of our marquee personnel have made a difference? Jerry Hughes can only do so much. Preston Brown had some great moments, and at other times he looked lost. Did Zac Brown even play? We have reason to be pissed about the scheme, but I can't help but think that we just didn't have the ponies last night to compete against a QB that was so on point (who expected that). On the flipside, the offense is a tire fire and it's because defensive coordinators, after 14 starts and an offseason, know how to completely neutralize Tyrod Taylor. So let's at least look at the pieces we DO have (the titular names minus Lawson 2 (who I believe they're waiting to heal so they can sign him again)). It is the exact same thing that happened with the guy in San Fran that refuses to stand. He was the same type of QB that Taylor is, it doesn't take long for these D Coordinators to take away your 1 trick Pony. To your point about the missing D pieces, I think pressure, and run D would have been a little better. Forte, and their O line carved up our run D, and held up real well against our pass rush, or lack thereof. Edited September 16, 2016 by DirtDart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Every time I see Dareus' stupid smiling picture on television when they talk about his suspension I want to puke. We are really missing him right now, and watching Forte scamper up the middle untouched time after time made my blood boil last night. Anyone else fugging pissed at Dareus? Mr. Moneybags can't put down the hash pipe? What a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 No. No front seven player could have been effective rushing the passer given how quickly Fitz was getting the ball out. Dareus and Ragland might have helped vs the run but the run defense wasn't bad until the team tired out late and Dareus would have been the first one to tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Brown plays okay, but on the occasions when he DOESN'T over pursue the hole and have to grab the RB from behind, he gets carried several yards downfield after contact. If Ragland is the thumper he's been billed at, a lot of 3-5 yard runs last night would have gone for 0 to -2. I turned to my buddy several times and noted precisely this. you and i both agree on brown -- i felt like i was the only one to mention him in frustration until you did. brown behind dareus is likely an upgrade, and ragland behind dareus should be too. but ragland is still a rookie so i tend not to pencil them in as immediate impact players, despite thinking ragland has a pretty high floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 16, 2016 Author Share Posted September 16, 2016 but thats what you get out of a decent vet qb that is comfortable in the pocket. he needed to be forced to move around, and alter his feet, and his release point, and keep more of an eye on the rush than just looking downfield. you let a smart, vet, nfl qb play with no pressure, a lead and huge WRs.... he will be able to throw safe, easy throws all day. I think the only answer would have been disguised pressure over and over and over again. But did we have the ponies last night to pull it off? We were dropping 6-8 guys into coverage on EVERY pass attempt, and they were still getting WIDE open. It is the exact same thing that happened with the guy in San Fran that refuses to stand. He was the same type of QB that Taylor is, it doesn't take long for these D Coordinators to take away your 1 trick Pony. To your point about the missing D pieces, I think pressure, and run D would have been a little better. Forte, and their O line carved up our run D, and held up real well against our pass rush, or lack thereof. I'm not ready to weep over 3.4 yards per carry. Every time I see Dareus' stupid smiling picture on television when they talk about his suspension I want to puke. We are really missing him right now, and watching Forte scamper up the middle untouched time after time made my blood boil last night. Anyone else fugging pissed at Dareus? Mr. Moneybags can't put down the hash pipe? What a disgrace. He's a difference maker. And lord knows the defense needed one last night. Maybe. But the coaching is a !@#$ing disaster. The Rex hire is a !@#$ing disaster. The one thing we the fans, the front office, and coaches could hang their hat on was the team had a very good defense. That is all gone to **** now. Couple that regression with a QB that can't read a defense and you have the makings of a 4 to 5 win season. The Rex hire is blowing up in their faces. Pegula needs to realize his mistake fast and clean up the mess. I'm not convinced that we had the ponies to execute a drastic change in the defensive scheme last night. I'm just not. That's sort of the point of this thread. It's the great unknown, it really is. You can be sure of it, fine. I'm just not. I'm not suggesting you're wrong, though. HOWEVER--you want to talk about "coaching" travesties: that horse **** on fourth and one, burning a !@#$ing time out when you're down in the fourth quarter of a one score game made me want to put my !@#$ing foot through the door. you and i both agree on brown -- i felt like i was the only one to mention him in frustration until you did. brown behind dareus is likely an upgrade, and ragland behind dareus should be too. but ragland is still a rookie so i tend not to pencil them in as immediate impact players, despite thinking ragland has a pretty high floor. Just wish we knew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 On the flipside, the offense is a tire fire and it's because defensive coordinators, after 14 starts and an offseason, know how to completely neutralize Tyrod Taylor. So let's at least look at the pieces we DO have (the titular names minus Lawson 2 (who I believe they're waiting to heal so they can sign him again)). Agreed. The first drive was basically a 3 and out which doomed the defense. I get that we scored a touchdown and all but still......only 3 plays. You can't just keep doing that to your defense or even an scheme designed to limit Fitz to 5000 yards in the air won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Agreed. The first drive was basically a 3 and out which doomed the defense. I get that we scored a touchdown and all but still......only 3 plays. You can't just keep doing that to your defense or even an scheme designed to limit Fitz to 5000 yards in the air won't work. you got fitz playing with a lead for a lot of the night. he never had to press outside his limitations to lift his team up. most of his TERRIBLE throws come when its "now or never" situations and he has to make a play he normally wouldnt. couple that with lack of making him uncomfortable in the pocket -- none of us should be shocked to have seen a good game out of him. hes got a good back, big reliable receivers.... nothing made him have to press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Hard to say because Rex's defense wears out your players if you keep going 3-&-out on offense. Plus Gilmore and Darby were getting lit up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Just Dareus, maybe Shaw. Z Brown and the Lorax have both played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 When Hughes bit his tongue and had to go out for a few snaps, the passrush never recovered. Not sure if he hit his head too (announcers said they checked his jaw, too) but he barely caused any discomfort for Fitz from that point forward. Outside of him, we have no passrushers, so I would say yes, those who were missing made a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I think the only answer would have been disguised pressure over and over and over again. But did we have the ponies last night to pull it off? We were dropping 6-8 guys into coverage on EVERY pass attempt, and they were still getting WIDE open. I'm not ready to weep over 3.4 yards per carry. He's a difference maker. And lord knows the defense needed one last night. I'm not convinced that we had the ponies to execute a drastic change in the defensive scheme last night. I'm just not. That's sort of the point of this thread. It's the great unknown, it really is. You can be sure of it, fine. I'm just not. I'm not suggesting you're wrong, though. HOWEVER--you want to talk about "coaching" travesties: that horse **** on fourth and one, burning a !@#$ing time out when you're down in the fourth quarter of a one score game made me want to put my !@#$ing foot through the door. Just wish we knew... 3.4 ypc isn't great, obviously, but you can't factor out 3 rushing TDs - rushing TDs make the runs shorter than they actually would have been given that reaching the goal lines ends the yardage accumulation. My guess is that if the goal line wasn't there, the yardage total would have been closer to 110-120. And of course, you can't factor out giving up 3 rushing TDs as part of the defense's run stopping performance!! That's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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