Deranged Rhino Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 And it's been explained many times that the only reason PATRIOT passed so quickly and overwhelmingly is that it consolidated existing federal laws into a single act. It did not institute some new federal oversight. And it's also been explained that you always were and still are at a far greater risk of privacy intrusion by local law enforcement or some spiny town bureaucrat than you are by the feds. The feds have repeatedly and consistently violated my privacy since at least 2001, if not before. To this day they're still storing and holding my personal records, along with yours, with no warrant or cause to do so. Whether or not they're actively looking at those records is irrelevant to me as it should be for everyone who understand that without privacy there is no freedom. But if you get enough people afraid of the boogeyman, they'll support anything that seemingly offers protection. The data collection and retention programs are not designed to protect the people though, they're designed to protect the government from the people. Which is the polar opposite of how our republic is supposed to function. The polar opposite. It's fundamentally anti-American at its core... and yet, many intelligent and patriotic people have accepted it without question as a necessary evil. And that ball just keeps rolling down hill from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 But, do you think his statements have fanned the flames that much - beer summit, Trayvon looking like his son, etc. - or is there more to it that I'm not seeing? Barry loves to fan the flames, and he loves racial tensions. He loves to put whitey on the offensive using this tactic, and he loves to get his minions pointing at people and yelling "racist" for him so he seems above it all. Look into the work he used to do as a community organizer. Many like to mock the title, but few pay attention to what he was actually doing in that role. He's one of the most divisive, entitled, victim-driven humans around, and the world will fully see him that way in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Barry loves to fan the flames, and he loves racial tensions. He loves to put whitey on the offensive using this tactic, and he loves to get his minions pointing at people and yelling "racist" for him so he seems above it all. Look into the work he used to do as a community organizer. Many like to mock the title, but few pay attention to what he was actually doing in that role. He's one of the most divisive, entitled, victim-driven humans around, and the world will fully see him that way in 20 years. What's something I can read about his community organizing time? I have absolutely no idea what he did then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The feds have repeatedly and consistently violated my privacy since at least 2001, if not before. To this day they're still storing and holding my personal records, along with yours, with no warrant or cause to do so. Whether or not they're actively looking at those records is irrelevant to me as it should be for everyone who understand that without privacy there is no freedom. But if you get enough people afraid of the boogeyman, they'll support anything that seemingly offers protection. The data collection and retention programs are not designed to protect the people though, they're designed to protect the government from the people. Which is the polar opposite of how our republic is supposed to function. The polar opposite. It's fundamentally anti-American at its core... and yet, many intelligent and patriotic people have accepted it without question as a necessary evil. And that ball just keeps rolling down hill from there. What do you think is a worse invasion of privacy. Your random email that's among billions stored in some random database that's never accessed, or your picture on every street corner and license plate every time you hit the highway? I know which one concerns me more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 What do you think is a worse invasion of privacy. Your random email that's among billions stored in some random database that's never accessed, or your picture on every street corner and license plate every time you hit the highway? I know which one concerns me more. Would you have more emails or pictures on the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Would you have more emails or pictures on the road? Look at it from a proportional standpoint. If Greggy is right, every single email of every single US resident is stored. Choose that to your face showing up in a local police surveillance video. Which has a higher probability of being seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Look at it from a proportional standpoint. If Greggy is right, every single email of every single US resident is stored. Choose that to your face showing up in a local police surveillance video. Which has a higher probability of being seen? Like I said, many intelligent and patriotic people have come up with numerous ways to rationalize their way towards accepting what otherwise would be an unthinkable transformation of the constitution and bill of rights without the fog of fear hanging over the conversation. This isn't an either/or conversation, it's much more nuanced and complicated than that and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 What's something I can read about his community organizing time? I have absolutely no idea what he did then. Invest 4 minutes listening to this Obama radio interview from 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) The feds have repeatedly and consistently violated my privacy since at least 2001, if not before. To this day they're still storing and holding my personal records, along with yours, with no warrant or cause to do so. Whether or not they're actively looking at those records is irrelevant to me as it should be for everyone who understand that without privacy there is no freedom. But if you get enough people afraid of the boogeyman, they'll support anything that seemingly offers protection. The data collection and retention programs are not designed to protect the people though, they're designed to protect the government from the people. Which is the polar opposite of how our republic is supposed to function. The polar opposite. It's fundamentally anti-American at its core... and yet, many intelligent and patriotic people have accepted it without question as a necessary evil. And that ball just keeps rolling down hill from there. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Simple as that. TSA treats us like criminals at airports to stop terrorists. Camera's everywhere. Go get your vaccines cause you will all die if you don't. Pretty much forced out here in Cali now. Must be safe at all times. But it never seems to work out that way does it? Instead it seems to get more dangerous. I guess they just need more money and more government control to get it right. Edited September 9, 2016 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Like I said, many intelligent and patriotic people have come up with numerous ways to rationalize their way towards accepting what otherwise would be an unthinkable transformation of the constitution and bill of rights without the fog of fear hanging over the conversation. This isn't an either/or conversation, it's much more nuanced and complicated than that and you know it. I think all you have to do is look at the post right above this one to understand that there's never going to be a shortage of people who think that anything that the government does is part of a massive conspiracy to control the minds of the population. I don't believe in that theory because I know that the majority of people that the Bilderberg and Davos elite have entrusted with their master plan, are in fact, idiots. TSA, of course, being the prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I think all you have to do is look at the post right above this one to understand that there's never going to be a shortage of people who think that anything that the government does is part of a massive conspiracy to control the minds of the population. I don't believe in that theory because I know that the majority of people that the Bilderberg and Davos elite have entrusted with their master plan, are in fact, idiots. TSA, of course, being the prime example. Yeah...every conspiracy I've ever heard always falls completely apart when you include the fact that people are generally dumb as a box of rocks. Except maybe "The Yakuza caused Katrina with a KGB weather machine." Because no one believes the Yakuza or KGB is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I think all you have to do is look at the post right above this one to understand that there's never going to be a shortage of people who think that anything that the government does is part of a massive conspiracy to control the minds of the population. I don't believe in that theory because I know that the majority of people that the Bilderberg and Davos elite have entrusted with their master plan, are in fact, idiots. TSA, of course, being the prime example. I like Dante but I do understand what you're saying and agree that there always will be extremists of all stripes. I'm not sure how that in any way changes the point we're circling however. I'm not as focused on assigning motives as I am on examining the actual impact of these programs. Motives are murky, legal precedent is less so. This isn't even a conspiracy. It's not a question of if these programs exist, they do. How they're being used is also not in dispute, there are now several thousand pages of documentation in the form of court records, leaks, and testimony before Congress. It's really a question of their cost benefit ratio. The benefits, in my mind, are dwarfed by the cost -- both real and philosophical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I like Dante but I do understand what you're saying and agree that there always will be extremists of all stripes. I'm not sure how that in any way changes the point we're circling however. I'm not as focused on assigning motives as I am on examining the actual impact of these programs. Motives are murky, legal precedent is less so. This isn't even a conspiracy. It's not a question of if these programs exist, they do. How they're being used is also not in dispute, there are now several thousand pages of documentation in the form of court records, leaks, and testimony before Congress. It's really a question of their cost benefit ratio. The benefits, in my mind, are dwarfed by the cost -- both real and philosophical. And again, the main reason for the PATRIOT act wasn't a nefarious plot to further a police state but to entrench the government Leviathan that feeds on itself and is impossible to move. The law didn't create anything new. It just created another dollop of glue to DC's expanding budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I think all you have to do is look at the post right above this one to understand that there's never going to be a shortage of people who think that anything that the government does is part of a massive conspiracy to control the minds of the population. I don't believe in that theory because I know that the majority of people that the Bilderberg and Davos elite have entrusted with their master plan, are in fact, idiots. TSA, of course, being the prime example. I think our government has been hijacked. I really don't think it's a true US government any more that actually represents the citizens and the sovereign state. I think there is a global/UN initiative, with bought off corroborators here, to bust the west down to equalize everything globally with the 3rd world. At least that was the probable left wing element hope 40 or 50 years ago. Now I just think elites just want to consolidate power internationally to control everything. Cause wars and chaos to maybe reduce that pesky population a bit. Normally something like this wouldn't even cross my mind. I would have said preposterous. Way to fantastical and unbelievable. But then I start to look at what really seems a coordinated effort to dilute western European culture and overheat their economies. Force the EU on sovereign nations. Now that same plan is being implemented here. Barry the puppet making sure, even going as far as breaking the law, to open the borders up. Pushing yet another phony trade deal us to erode even more of our sovereignty . But this is just me. Seeing things a bit different other than what is put out by the fake media what is owned and controlled by what? 5 or 6 corporations now when it used to be 40 or 50 companies? Sounds like more centralized control to me. I sense a pattern developing with this centralized thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Invest 4 minutes listening to this Obama radio interview from 2001. Well, I definitely don't agree with anything he's selling there, but that really won't convince anybody that he's the one causing all the racial animosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Conservatives SILENT As 49ers Player Arrested For Beating A Senior Citizen This came across my Facebook feed.............Uh, he got arrested and immediately booted from the team. What more did they want? http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/09/07/conservatives-silent-49ers-player-arrested-beating-senior-citizen/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 ............and many on the Left wonder why not as many listen to their B.S. anymore USA TODAYVerified account @USATODAY 11h11 hours ago NAACP president: 'Not a stretch' to compare Colin Kaepernick to Rosa Parks http://usat.ly/2cHnIQh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) ............and many on the Left wonder why not as many listen to their B.S. anymore USA TODAYVerified account @USATODAY 11h11 hours ago NAACP president: 'Not a stretch' to compare Colin Kaepernick to Rosa Parks http://usat.ly/2cHnIQh And apparently the 49'ers agree................... Heat StreetVerified account @heatstreet 35m35 minutes ago The San Francisco 49ers CEO Jed York announced the team will pledge over $1 million to social justice. What does that even mean ? Edited September 9, 2016 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 No wonder the Niners are in shambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 No wonder the Niners are in shambles Yet... It is supposedly systemic w/in The whole very socially liberal Bay Area... Somehow it survives and does well while a lot think it is the coolest, hippist place on earth. Imagine that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts