Magox Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm making a general statement. It's curious how often controversial programs use that excuse to explain away the racial consequences of their existence. Like voter ID laws we've morphed this topic into (thanks, Boyst!). Sure, in theory it's noble and the argument you've been making for them does make total sense. But when put into practice, these laws have adversely impacted the working poor, minorities, and the elderly. Some would say that's just a byproduct of assuring our elections appear fair. And maybe it is. But it's funny how the practical implications of these sorts of controversial programs and laws, however noble they may be when they're pitched to the public, have the same recurring "byproduct". Just makes you wonder. The laws of unintended consequences. We see it all the time and certainly not analogous to only race relations but pretty much all broad policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The laws of unintended consequences. We see it all the time and certainly not analogous to only race relations but pretty much all broad policy. If you look for racism first, you will always find racism first. That's why I contend that NFL's investigation of Manny Lawson is racist at its heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Ballots go out in the mail about 3-4 weeks before Election Day and can be returned (by mail or in person) any time up until Election Day. Voters have to foot the 55-cent bill for their own stamp, unless they want to hand-deliver. There was a lot of hand-wringing when vote-by-mail went into effect about 20 years ago, but pretty much everyone out here agrees that it's been a very good thing. One of the benefits is that there are paper ballots that make it relatively easy to audit the vote, if necessary. Also makes it impossible for anyone to hack the election, which is actually a very real concern in states that use electronic voting machines. And yes, the idea that a foreign national or anyone else would risk a felony conviction or deportation in order to illegally vote in an election is ludicrous. Putin and Russia are being mischievous with their hacking. What do you expect from communists? http://www.12news.com/news/politics/russian-hack-targets-arizona-voter-information/310913671 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 No, it's not. Period! I was simply saying it didn't have to be qualified as a black or white issue so don't get bent out of shape on the use of the work "period." Voter suppression is voter suppression. Period. As to the question of suppression, several courts seem to think that's the case in overturning these new laws. That said, I have not desire to go down this endless rabbit hole with you or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I was simply saying it didn't have to be qualified as a black or white issue so don't get bent out of shape on the use of the work "period." Voter suppression is voter suppression. Period. As to the question of suppression, several courts seem to think that's the case in overturning these new laws. That said, I have not desire to go down this endless rabbit hole with you or anyone else. Then I misunderstood you. However, there are several courts that don't believe that to be the case. It depends on the makeup of the court and from what I've seen how many different ID options are allowable as proof of ID. The lesser the number the more stringent it is seen as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Then I misunderstood you. However, there are several courts that don't believe that to be the case. It depends on the makeup of the court and from what I've seen how many different ID options are allowable as proof of ID. The lesser the number the more stringent it is seen as. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 I think you need to research it. That program was not inspired by racial tensions but rather as a counter to any sort of political movement that they saw as disruptive. The racial component that you speak of was simply a byproduct of what the program encompassed. I'm not agreeing with the program, I'm disagreeing with the premise of your beliefs regarding the program. What I posted earlier predates COINTELPRO as far back as 1919 with Hoover illegitimately interfering with and ultimately destroying African American Organizations that were founded to improve life for its members: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_fbi.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It doesn't take much talent to respond in that fashion. There's plenty of underlying data from studies and other sources showing that illegal immigrants are voting in increasing numbers and even being encouraged to do so. Integrity at the ballot box should be a bi-partisan goal. And voting as a illegal immigrant in a national election should be an crime resulting in being expelled. State and local are different situations since some jurisdictions are allowing it. I still don't know if I see this as a hardship though. Identification is a core utility that one should have, and you can easily renew online at least in NY. How do these people buy alcohol? Most bootleggers with illegal grain alcohol still do not require ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The American flag does not fly because the wind moves past it. The American flag flies from the last breath of each military member who has died protecting it. There are plenty of non-military who have died to protect the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/1084172264951509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/1084172264951509 I've always really liked the phrase "Be the change you wish to see in others" which that guy was saying in his last lines. It's surely not always possible but more times than you think, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/1084172264951509 Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 And yes, the idea that a foreign national or anyone else would risk a felony conviction or deportation in order to illegally vote in an election is ludicrous. What? Are you suggesting that here in this country and at this time that the screening process of voter registration includes turning over illegal immigrants that attempt to register to vote and then prosecuting and deporting them? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: It has literally never happened and our own DOJ has threatened to sue states that pursue cleansing of illegal voter registration. Your government is literally protecting those that register improperly. From the article below. Yet no U.S. Attorney's Office (USAO) appears to have initiated any effort to prosecute aliens for voting. Nor has the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) initiated the deportation of aliens who have registered or voted illegally, which it can do independently of a prosecution by the USAO or state prosecutors. and In Florida, state officials developed a preliminary list of about 180,000, later refined to 2,700 apparent registration discrepancies, which was sent to local electoral officials for further review and inquiry. It also was refused assistance from DHS. When the federal Department of Justice (DOJ) threatened suit, many counties declined to take action on the questioned names; but some counties pressed forward, resulting in identification of nearly 100 noncitizens according to media reports. DOJ's lawsuit was dismissed in a federal district court, prompting DHS to agree to provide access to SAVE records. Despite the dismissal, DOJ has issued subpoenas for the records of those counties that were not deterred by the legal action. http://cis.org/non-citizen-voters-diluting-the-rights-and-privileges-of-citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah, that would be great. well it might be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 What? Are you suggesting that here in this country and at this time that the screening process of voter registration includes turning over illegal immigrants that attempt to register to vote and then prosecuting and deporting them? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: It has literally never happened and our own DOJ has threatened to sue states that pursue cleansing of illegal voter registration. Your government is literally protecting those that register improperly. From the article below. Yet no U.S. Attorney's Office (USAO) appears to have initiated any effort to prosecute aliens for voting. Nor has the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) initiated the deportation of aliens who have registered or voted illegally, which it can do independently of a prosecution by the USAO or state prosecutors. and In Florida, state officials developed a preliminary list of about 180,000, later refined to 2,700 apparent registration discrepancies, which was sent to local electoral officials for further review and inquiry. It also was refused assistance from DHS. When the federal Department of Justice (DOJ) threatened suit, many counties declined to take action on the questioned names; but some counties pressed forward, resulting in identification of nearly 100 noncitizens according to media reports. DOJ's lawsuit was dismissed in a federal district court, prompting DHS to agree to provide access to SAVE records. Despite the dismissal, DOJ has issued subpoenas for the records of those counties that were not deterred by the legal action. http://cis.org/non-citizen-voters-diluting-the-rights-and-privileges-of-citizenship http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2016/05/10/center-immigration-studies-publishing-alt-right-racist/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 What I posted earlier predates COINTELPRO as far back as 1919 with Hoover illegitimately interfering with and ultimately destroying African American Organizations that were founded to improve life for its members: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/garvey/filmmore/ps_fbi.html Hoover, a fan favorite to this day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Hoover, a fan favorite to this day... No no....I'm making things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/1084172264951509 Nice read 26. Noble thinking No no....I'm making things up. Every one is entitled to an opinion. Allowed to say their piece. That is how we learn from one another. this thread has been a teacher of sorts. I think that is a good thing. Been harsh at times. That's okay. I strive to be honest with myself and others. Not always successful, but i am willing to work. Some old guy said something like " let the truth set you free" The meaning was a personal message. For the individual I think. "Seek the Truth , divine it from the Shadow" . Thats this old mans quote No no....I'm making things up. I was talking about the Vacuum cleaning machine company. But thats okay too. Context matters Edited August 30, 2016 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Nice read 26. Noble thinking Every one is entitled to an opinion. Allowed to say their piece. That is how we learn from one another. this thread has been a teacher of sorts. I think that is a good thing. Been harsh at times. That's okay. I strive to be honest with myself and others. Not always successful, but i am willing to work. Some old guy said something like " let the truth set you free" The meaning was a personal message. For the individual I think. "Seek the Truth , divine it from the Shadow" . Thats this old mans quote I know man. I was just being a little sarcastic. Good message by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I know man. I was just being a little sarcastic. Good message by you. I get ya. absolutely gotta have some fun too. Keep on keepin on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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