Bills cut Karlos Williams

[FireChan]

I see all these speculative ideas to what happened in this thread...but I don't know why. There is a pretty clear cut case against Karlos and the team has been pretty clear about it.

 

1. He came into camp incredibly out of shape...not a little, but the kind of out of shape that takes time to fix.

2. He is suspended for the first 4 games. Thats already 2 strikes against him.

3. We signed Bush and drafted Williams. That means there are currently 4 RB's ahead of him on the depth chart in McCoy, Gillisee, Bush, and Williams. Most teams don't keep 5 RB's unless that 5th one is a major contributor on ST.

4. All 4 RBs ahead of him aren't just ahead of him because of the suspension, but also because they are ready to play and have out played Karlos.

 

Someone had to go. You are not going to cut McCoy. You are not going to cut Gilisee. You signed Bush to be a both a RB during the suspension and also a weapon that can be deployed during the season so unless he came in and struggled (which he hasn't) then you probably don't cut him. And the rookie you just drafted has looked good too, so it mostly comes down to this rookie that we just invested the same round draft pick in who is in shape and ready to play and not suspended or the fat 5th round RB from last year who not only is waaaaaaay out of shape but also suspended.

 

Personally, I am very disappointed that after a very impressive rookie season that Karlos journey has led here and not on this team. Especially because the kid has a load of potential and if he goes to a divisional rival (all 3 could use him) he could very well could go on to haunt us for years if he gets his crap together. But at the same time, this is the time of year where you have to start making cuts, and like I pointed out above, we were not going to carry 5 RB's into the season opener and he forced their hand. Had he made the roster and ran into some trouble, I think he may have had a shot to stick around, but because his troubles saw him fall behind 4 other guys who all look the part, there wasn't really another choice during cut season IMO.

Karlos didn't count against the 53 while suspended. No one "had to go." Edited August 22, 2016 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

Karlos didn't count against the 53 while suspended. No one "had to go."

I still think this was a message to the team.....they could not do it to Marcel.....so Karlos your it.

[PromoTheRobot]

Why did we not try and make a trade for a late round draft pick to a running back needy team ?

Whaley says to have wanted to give the young man a chance to sign on with another team. But, why should we care about his continued career with a rival. And I consider every other club a rival.

It seems like we could have gotten something back from him, besides just letting him go.

And I have also seen allot of people post that we got totally screwed by taking him in the 1st place.

But. We took him in the 5th. He played. Produced. And is gone. I think he played his worth in his 1 year with the Bills. Hardly a huge gamble that didnt produce some kind of results. jmo

Because no one trades for a #2 running back when dozens will be available after camp cuts.

[NoSaint]

I still think this was a message to the team.....they could not do it to Marcel.....so Karlos your it.

ill admit, if it was a "team event" that MD was at.... im not sure the message was received.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

Yeah, sure he will. Belichick loves dumb players.

 

You conveniently left out the full sentence I wrote...which specifically stated ..."if he gets his crap together." So the completely quote was "Especially because the kid has a load of potential and if he goes to a divisional rival (all 3 could use him) he could very well could go not to haunt us for years if he gets his crap together."

 

But of course you completely ignored that I said he has potential, not that he's a stud...ignored that I said it would take him getting his crap together...etc. Instead you wrote a sarcastic response and chose to cherry pick one part of the quote to somehow paint the picture that I claimed he will go on to haunt us of years with a divisional rival.

 

Geezus, its exhausting trying to have a real dialogue on this board lately. Epic fail on your reply...

Karlos didn't count against the 53 while suspended. No one "had to go."

 

But he would once he was back and then who do you cut? Again, the roster spot was either Karlos or Jonathan IMO. Mike was going no where, and they are excited about putting Bush out there in mismatch type spots and he's more than just a suspension filler in their minds. They chose to invest in JW at this point and I don't think Karlos left them much choice. He wasn't close to being ready in terms of being in shape and the other 4 had out played him and earned their spots ahead of him.

 

Not to mention, this team really needed to send a message that if you don't bring it, come ready to play, etc then your spot isn't guaranteed. As much as I wanted to see Karlos back in Buffalo, I still see why Buffalo cut him and he forced their hand with his offseason.

 

Furthermore, RB is not a concern, we have a healthy McCoy, Mike has proven to be a good RB for us last year, we got a promising rookie, and Bush adds a different dimension to the position. We are fine at RB and Karlos was very much competing for his spot like all the RB's not named McCoy and shot himself in the foot 3 times. Three strikes and you're out...he came to camp fat, very fat for his position...he got suspended...he wasn't out playing the other 4 guys or getting in shape fast enough. 3 strikes and your are out...and most guys don't even get a chance to get to 3 strikes, so he has no one to blame but himself.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Alphadawg7

[FireChan]

 

You conveniently left out the full sentence I wrote...which specifically stated ..."if he gets his crap together." So the completely quote was "Especially because the kid has a load of potential and if he goes to a divisional rival (all 3 could use him) he could very well could go not to haunt us for years if he gets his crap together."

 

But of course you completely ignored that I said he has potential, not that he's a stud...ignored that I said it would take him getting his crap together...etc. Instead you wrote a sarcastic response and chose to cherry pick one part of the quote to somehow paint the picture that I claimed he will go on to haunt us of years with a divisional rival.

 

Geezus, its exhausting trying to have a real dialogue on this board lately. Epic fail on your reply...

 

 

But he would once he was back and then who do you cut? Again, the roster spot was either Karlos or Jonathan IMO. Mike was going no where, and they are excited about putting Bush out there in mismatch type spots and he's more than just a suspension filler in their minds. They chose to invest in JW at this point and I don't think Karlos left them much choice. He wasn't close to being ready in terms of being in shape and the other 4 had out played him and earned their spots ahead of him.

 

Not to mention, this team really needed to send a message that if you don't bring it, come ready to play, etc then your spot isn't guaranteed. As much as I wanted to see Karlos back in Buffalo, I still see why Buffalo cut him and he forced their hand with his offseason.

 

Furthermore, RB is not a concern, we have a healthy McCoy, Mike has proven to be a good RB for us last year, we got a promising rookie, and Bush adds a different dimension to the position. We are fine at RB and Karlos was very much competing for his spot like all the RB's not named McCoy and shot himself in the foot 3 times. Three strikes and you're out...he came to camp fat, very fat for his position...he got suspended...he wasn't out playing the other 4 guys or getting in shape fast enough. 3 strikes and your are out...and most guys don't even get a chance to get to 3 strikes, so he has no one to blame but himself.

Once he's back, you could cut him or maybe something unforeseen happens. Last year we were stacked at RB and Boom Herron still started a game. If JWill breaks his leg week 1, it'd be nice to have someone competent in the wings, right?

[eball]

 

You conveniently left out the full sentence I wrote...which specifically stated ..."if he gets his crap together." So the completely quote was "Especially because the kid has a load of potential and if he goes to a divisional rival (all 3 could use him) he could very well could go not to haunt us for years if he gets his crap together."

 

But of course you completely ignored that I said he has potential, not that he's a stud...ignored that I said it would take him getting his crap together...etc. Instead you wrote a sarcastic response and chose to cherry pick one part of the quote to somehow paint the picture that I claimed he will go on to haunt us of years with a divisional rival.

 

Geezus, its exhausting trying to have a real dialogue on this board lately. Epic fail on your reply...

 

 

Alpha, it gets so old reading posts fearing that every player the Bills release will "come back to haunt them" -- particularly because it has pretty much never happened.

 

Despite what so many like to think, the Bills aren't complete idiots. Karlos is. As a couple of days have passed more and more info has begun to come out suggesting it wasn't something as simple as "he couldn't lose the weight." And don't forget, many questioned Karlos' social media antics and lack of, umm, smarts, prior to the "pregnancy weight" issue. I know I was mentioning it a long time ago.

 

Do you think we don't already all know he has potential? That's not the point. Why should the Bills hold onto an out of shape, immature clown "with potential" when they have other players who have been impressive and/or have that SAME potential?

 

Yes, of course, if Karlos suddenly "gets it together" (unlikely) and avoids further concussions (possible) then he may have a successful NFL career -- but anyone who thinks this is a future HOFer who is going to "make the Bills pay" down the road is just a little misguided -- in my opinion.

 

My prediction? Karlos is out of the league within two years. You can't un-do dumb.

[Direhard Fan]

Four kids and no job. Not a good thing for sure. And than you mention not to bright. Imagine that.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Alpha, it gets so old reading posts fearing that every player the Bills release will "come back to haunt them" -- particularly because it has pretty much never happened.

 

Despite what so many like to think, the Bills aren't complete idiots. Karlos is. As a couple of days have passed more and more info has begun to come out suggesting it wasn't something as simple as "he couldn't lose the weight." And don't forget, many questioned Karlos' social media antics and lack of, umm, smarts, prior to the "pregnancy weight" issue. I know I was mentioning it a long time ago.

 

Do you think we don't already all know he has potential? That's not the point. Why should the Bills hold onto an out of shape, immature clown "with potential" when they have other players who have been impressive and/or have that SAME potential?

 

Yes, of course, if Karlos suddenly "gets it together" (unlikely) and avoids further concussions (possible) then he may have a successful NFL career -- but anyone who thinks this is a future HOFer who is going to "make the Bills pay" down the road is just a little misguided -- in my opinion.

 

My prediction? Karlos is out of the league within two years. You can't un-do dumb.

 

Except I didn't say any of that eBall. My entire post was in SUPPORT of cutting him. I said it was disappointing it came to this after a promising start to his career. You just chose part of one sentence and twisted it to say something I didn't...thats what I get tired of.

 

Again, I clearly stated he earned getting cut and we did what we should have done, which is cut him. That doesn't change the fact that the kid flashed a lot of potential last year, and the fact that all 3 divisional rivals have RB needs, even the Jets given Forte isn't much more than a short term player at his age. It doesn't change the fact that if the kid gets his act together, he has a load of potential as a young player to rebuild his career somewhere. It doesn't change the fact that as dumb as you say he is, on the field, that so called "dumb" player produced at a high level. RB is probably the least cerebral position in the NFL.

 

So its annoying when something I did not say gets twisted by cherry picking a few words to say something else. All I did was point out its disappointing to see a promising young player fall off this team so fast, especially if the kid gets a shot on one of our RB needy rivals and he gets his career back on track. At no point did I proclaim he's going to be so HOF RB on one of our divisional rivals. The kid has potential...its a shame he shot himself in the foot here and wont get a chance to reach that potential here and it would also be a shame if he got his crap together and did start to tap into that potential for a divisional rival, which all have RB question marks of some sort.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Alphadawg7

[eball]

@Alpha -- sorry if you feel I twisted your words. I think it's clear how we both assess this situation.

[NoSaint]

 

But he would once he was back and then who do you cut? Again, the roster spot was either Karlos or Jonathan IMO. Mike was going no where, and they are excited about putting Bush out there in mismatch type spots and he's more than just a suspension filler in their minds. They chose to invest in JW at this point and I don't think Karlos left them much choice. He wasn't close to being ready in terms of being in shape and the other 4 had out played him and earned their spots ahead of him.

 

i think the answer is why not wait and if he comes back in shape, and maybe you have a guy dinged up that this will sort itself out for you.

 

or you are healthy, and hes a mess still so you cancel it.

[Alphadawg7]

i think the answer is why not wait and if he comes back in shape, and maybe you have a guy dinged up that this will sort itself out for you.

 

or you are healthy, and hes a mess still so you cancel it.

 

How many chances do you give a player though? He had 3 strikes; 1) Super fat coming into camp 2) Got suspended 3) Outplayed during camp

 

And at what point does letting him stay start to send the wrong message? Look at Dareus...he screwed up, but he owned that is doing what it takes to make it right. But at the same time, he's a leader on this team, shows up and dominates, shows up ready to play. Karlos screwed up, then screwed up again, then came out and got out played by the 4 other RB's we have. Thats three strikes, and thats 2 more than most people get especially as a young 5th round RB competing for a spot on a team deep at the position.

[Jerry Jabber]

Rex is the type of guy that gives chances to guys that have been problems on other teams. Incognito's chance with the Bills was seen as his last opportunity in the NFL. Harvin was a problem with Minnesota and Seattle, but Rex gave him a chance in NYJ and in Buffalo. For Rex to give up on Karlos speaks volumes on Karlos' character.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Jerry Jabber

[FireChan]

 

How many chances do you give a player though? He had 3 strikes; 1) Super fat coming into camp 2) Got suspended 3) Outplayed during camp

 

And at what point does letting him stay start to send the wrong message? Look at Dareus...he screwed up, but he owned that is doing what it takes to make it right. But at the same time, he's a leader on this team, shows up and dominates, shows up ready to play. Karlos screwed up, then screwed up again, then came out and got out played by the 4 other RB's we have. Thats three strikes, and thats 2 more than most people get especially as a young 5th round RB competing for a spot on a team deep at the position.

When they were the clear offensive ROY on your team, led the team in TD's and are very cheap to keep, maybe more.

 

Just because JWill outplayed him at camp does not mean he would outplay him during the year. Again, if an RB goes down between now and week 4, and we have to activate Boom Herron or some other hack body, this will look like the wrong move.

 

Darues didn't "own up" to anything. He recited the same tired words he did two years ago and hit the Chip Strip to get photos taken. He also showed up fat last season. Dareus has 3 strikes and is still here.

[GG]

Trying to remember if Mularkey cutting Bobby Shaw generated the same number of responses?

 

BTW, this piece of **** needs to be outed as a piece of ****.

 

Matt Smith ‏@MattSmi30932747 Aug 20

@Karlos_29_SR you can take the monkey out of the jungle but you can't take the monkey out of the monkey

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[YoloinOhio]

Trying to remember if Mularkey cutting Bobby Shaw generated the same number of responses?

 

BTW, this piece of **** needs to be outed as a piece of ****.

Matt Smith ‏@MattSmi30932747 Aug 20

 

@Karlos_29_SR you can take the monkey out of the jungle but you can't take the monkey out of the monkey

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my favorite was when he told one of his female followers (Bills fan) that she looked like a horse. Edited August 22, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Alphadawg7]

When they were the clear offensive ROY on your team, led the team in TD's and are very cheap to keep, maybe more.

 

Just because JWill outplayed him at camp does not mean he would outplay him during the year. Again, if an RB goes down between now and week 4, and we have to activate Boom Herron or some other hack body, this will look like the wrong move.

 

Darues didn't "own up" to anything. He recited the same tired words he did two years ago and hit the Chip Strip to get photos taken. He also showed up fat last season. Dareus has 3 strikes and is still here.

 

Dareus is an Elite player at his position, is beloved in the locker room and by the staff, and a cornerstone of this franchise. And he did own up to it this year and even checked himself into rehab. The team is supporting him through this...

 

What has Karlos done? He was hurt multiple times last year, had his best games as a compliment to another RB, not as the starter, and had a lot of competition at his position this year.

 

Don't get me wrong, I loved Karlos potential and I am very disappointed to see him fall out of grace so bad that he got cut. But he's been outplayed by 4 other people at his position...no one is out playing Dareus on this team...there is a difference, not to mention we are heavily invested in Dareus and while Karlos is at our deepest position that also happens to be the easiest position to fill. Case in point, look at Karlos and Gillisee last year...no one really heard of them, one was a guy off the street and the other a low round drafted rookie. Yet they made big contributions to this team when McCoy was hurt and Fred cut. Everyone thought we were doomed when Fred was cut too.

 

At some point the team has to send a message, and Karlos wrote his own ticket out of town. Good chance Karlos doesn't get signed anytime soon given how fat he is and facing a 4 game suspension, so maybe we bring him back if we get an injury early if he's still available and making progress. But right now, as bummed as I was it happened, the FO made an easy decision based on the hand Karlos dealt himself.

[NoSaint]

 

How many chances do you give a player though? He had 3 strikes; 1) Super fat coming into camp 2) Got suspended 3) Outplayed during camp

 

And at what point does letting him stay start to send the wrong message? Look at Dareus...he screwed up, but he owned that is doing what it takes to make it right. But at the same time, he's a leader on this team, shows up and dominates, shows up ready to play. Karlos screwed up, then screwed up again, then came out and got out played by the 4 other RB's we have. Thats three strikes, and thats 2 more than most people get especially as a young 5th round RB competing for a spot on a team deep at the position.

i get that its a different beast with dareus, but hes a terrible example to use when saying you should only give 3 strikes to a guy.

 

i get the "send a message" angle - i do. i just dont think cutting him the day after the suspension if hes unneeded or unprepared is a terrible message either. that would send the "we will do what we need to build the best 53 for sunday and if you arent it you are gone" message pretty clearly i think. which isnt awful.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

(no one had to go...doesn't count against 53 man roster while suspended).

 

But he would once he was back and then who do you cut? Again, the roster spot was either Karlos or Jonathan IMO. Mike was going no where, and they are excited about putting Bush out there in mismatch type spots and he's more than just a suspension filler in their minds. They chose to invest in JW at this point and I don't think Karlos left them much choice. He wasn't close to being ready in terms of being in shape and the other 4 had out played him and earned their spots ahead of him.

 

Not to mention, this team really needed to send a message that if you don't bring it, come ready to play, etc then your spot isn't guaranteed. As much as I wanted to see Karlos back in Buffalo, I still see why Buffalo cut him and he forced their hand with his offseason.

 

Furthermore, RB is not a concern, we have a healthy McCoy, Mike has proven to be a good RB for us last year, we got a promising rookie, and Bush adds a different dimension to the position. We are fine at RB and Karlos was very much competing for his spot like all the RB's not named McCoy and shot himself in the foot 3 times. Three strikes and you're out...he came to camp fat, very fat for his position...he got suspended...he wasn't out playing the other 4 guys or getting in shape fast enough. 3 strikes and your are out...and most guys don't even get a chance to get to 3 strikes, so he has no one to blame but himself.

 

Last year we were talking about how deep we were looking at running back. Then, in short succession last preseason, Fredex, Boobie, Bryce Brown and then LeSean McCoy were injured, leaving the Bills scrambling to bring in camp bodies. Here we have a camp body who knows the system and who could still train/diet himself into shape by the 5th week of the season.

 

Point being:

1) Don't count your healthy running backs (or indeed any other position) until it's time to play. From the "who do you cut Week 5" perspective, one could wait until Week 5 and look at who's healthy and how different players are proving out in the regular season, then.

2) If just fat, very fat, is the issue, see other post about Lacy.....and Williams still had more than a month to get himself into shape. A good trainer can do a lot with a guy in 7 weeks.

 

That's why some of us are wondering what went down? What was the Big Rush to bring out the Turk?

[Wayne Cubed]

About to find out if any team put in a claim. This should be interesting.