Stadium Naming Rights

[Nanker]

And then there were five...

[ALF]

It makes sense for naming rights after a respectful time after Ralph has passed away.

 

A new stadium would start the naming rights over.

[SF Bills Fan]

Delaware North, New Era are logical. Will need Ralph Wilson's name to still be in there somewhere.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Some change for "infrastructure" maybe.

 

 

 

They do? Anyway, the second bolded part is an interesting concept. Because a guy has become a developer (speculator, essentially), he should be repaid for his speculation with public funds for the part of his empire that is a guaranteed profit maker? No thanks.

Yes, it's quite the complex to feel a community must collectively further line the pockets of a man who happened to choose their hometown to inject a bunch of investment and capitalize on cheap land location and geography to build a money making juggernaught. Simply because "well.... He chose us..."

 

Does anyone think the bills aren't going to be profitable for him?

 

Does anyone think the Sabres won't?

 

Does anyone think his little Pegula-Opolis isn't going to make money for him?

[thebandit27]

 

 

They do? Anyway, the second bolded part is an interesting concept. Because a guy has become a developer (speculator, essentially), he should be repaid for his speculation with public funds for the part of his empire that is a guaranteed profit maker? No thanks.

 

My point on your previous post is that I wouldn't simply dismiss the state's involvement based on fracking...I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole on that subject, since I've got some pretty animated opinions about it.

 

Anyway, with regard to the public, my assumption is that the County would want ownership for revenue purposes. If they do, then they should expect to chip in...if they want no part of ownership (which hasn't been the case with the current venue for the past 43 years), then that's a whole different discussion.

 

 

Yes, it's quite the complex to feel a community must collectively further line the pockets of a man who happened to choose their hometown to inject a bunch of investment and capitalize on cheap land location and geography to build a money making juggernaught. Simply because "well.... He chose us..."

 

Does anyone think the bills aren't going to be profitable for him?

 

Does anyone think the Sabres won't?

 

Does anyone think his little Pegula-Opolis isn't going to make money for him?

 

See above. It's not about lining his pockets, it's about revenue. Again, I'm assuming that the County wants a stake in the stadium ownership with a lease agreement, similar to what's been done for the Ralph for 43 years. Is it your opinion that the Pegula family should fully fund the stadium, turn it over to the County, and then pay them to lease it, all without the County (or State for that matter) contributing at all?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

My point on your previous post is that I wouldn't simply dismiss the state's involvement based on fracking...I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole on that subject, since I've got some pretty animated opinions about it.

 

Anyway, with regard to the public, my assumption is that the County would want ownership for revenue purposes. If they do, then they should expect to chip in...if they want no part of ownership (which hasn't been the case with the current venue for the past 43 years), then that's a whole different discussion.

 

 

 

See above. It's not about lining his pockets, it's about revenue. Again, I'm assuming that the County wants a stake in the stadium ownership with a lease agreement, similar to what's been done for the Ralph for 43 years. Is it your opinion that the Pegula family should fully fund the stadium, turn it over to the County, and then pay them to lease it, all without the County (or State for that matter) contributing at all?

My opinion is that your assumption that the county wants to or more importantly should pay a huge upfront lump sum for potential lease revenue is flawed.

Edited June 21, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood

[mead107]

At The Ralph with Beerball

[Heitz]

How does "Heitz & Hammer Field @ RWS" sound?

 

I'll post the link to the Kickstarter later

[Mr. WEO]

 

My point on your previous post is that I wouldn't simply dismiss the state's involvement based on fracking...I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole on that subject, since I've got some pretty animated opinions about it.

 

Anyway, with regard to the public, my assumption is that the County would want ownership for revenue purposes. If they do, then they should expect to chip in...if they want no part of ownership (which hasn't been the case with the current venue for the past 43 years), then that's a whole different discussion.

 

 

 

See above. It's not about lining his pockets, it's about revenue. Again, I'm assuming that the County wants a stake in the stadium ownership with a lease agreement, similar to what's been done for the Ralph for 43 years. Is it your opinion that the Pegula family should fully fund the stadium, turn it over to the County, and then pay them to lease it, all without the County (or State for that matter) contributing at all?

 

 

It's not the "state" per se that would dismiss the fracking background of Pegula, it will be the politicians who oppose fracking for political reasons--including the Governor (who's also opposed to funding a stadium).

 

Politicians are craven and the political winds in NYS would be both anti-Buffalo stadium funding and anti fracking. The decision making would become very easy for them. At most, they would defer to a public referendum type thing, which would surely kill the chance of public funding.

 

If revenue sharing and rent were ways for the states to pay off huge stadium debts, I'm sure the public everywhere would never have a problem with handing half a billion of their money to billionaires for a place to hang out in a few Sundays a year. But it doesn't work out that way.

 

If Pegula wants a new stadium, he should pay for it as he has the means. He can absorb any profit or loss incurred by owning a rarely used, insanely expensive facility. Maybe the public could kick in some for roads/access improvement, but that's it.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[mead107]

I have to admit to liking it a lot better than Beerball

[8-8 Forever?]

Look for PSE to sell the naming rights in the near future. Pegulas can't ask the state and county for any renovation or new build money when they aren't exhausting all of their own revenue streams.

 

Terry noted at a business luncheon roughly a year ago that he wouldn't sell the rights "yet." I could see them incorporating Ralph's name into whatever deal they make, someway somehow.

 

Any thoughts on good fits? New Era seems perfect.

The Mighty Taco Bowl. Media can call it "the 'Mighty' ". Perfect for WNY.

Edited June 21, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

It's not the "state" per se that would dismiss the fracking background of Pegula, it will be the politicians who oppose fracking for political reasons--including the Governor (who's also opposed to funding a stadium).

 

Politicians are craven and the political winds in NYS would be both anti-Buffalo stadium funding and anti fracking. The decision making would become very easy for them. At most, they would defer to a public referendum type thing, which would surely kill the chance of public funding.

 

If revenue sharing and rent were ways for the states to pay off huge stadium debts, I'm sure the public everywhere would never have a problem with handing half a billion of their money to billionaires for a place to hang out in a few Sundays a year. But it doesn't work out that way.

 

If Pegula wants a new stadium, he should pay for it as he has the means. He can absorb any profit or loss incurred by owning a rarely used, insanely expensive facility. Maybe the public could kick in some for roads/access improvement, but that's it.

That is all fine to pound your fist on the table at a town hall meeting but the reality is that 29 of the 31 stadiums received public funding. The stadiums built between 1990-2010 received an average of $262M in public funding. It is the norm and the Bills will be no different. Edited June 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[HT02]

Look for PSE to sell the naming rights in the near future. Pegulas can't ask the state and county for any renovation or new build money when they aren't exhausting all of their own revenue streams.

 

Terry noted at a business luncheon roughly a year ago that he wouldn't sell the rights "yet." I could see them incorporating Ralph's name into whatever deal they make, someway somehow.

 

Any thoughts on good fits? New Era seems perfect.

Fine by me, if it keeps the Bills in Buffalo and lowers the funding requirements for the taxpayers go for it.

[QCity]

That is all fine to pound your fist on the table at a town hall meeting but the reality is that 29 of the 31 stadiums received public funding. The stadiums built between 1990-2010 received an average of $262M in public funding. It is the norm and the Bills will be no different.

 

Yep, and I can already hear the crying. Add in $200M from the G4 loan program, $100M for 20yr naming rights, and we're already in the $500M+ neighborhood.

[Webster Guy]

.....Pegulas can't ask the state and county for any renovation or new build money when they aren't exhausting all of their own revenue streams.....

 

 

False. Ralph did it. He could have sold naming rights for Rich Stadium instead of naming it after himself, but he chose the latter and the taxpayers funded far more of the renovations than they should have. At least $5m per year stolen from the community so he could have his name on the stadium.

 

Total joke. Loved Ralph up til then, pitied him since.

 

In fact, the governor made it seem like Albany insisted the stadium be named after Ralph, which wasn't the case at all. I followed that pretty closely and was surprised at how the old cagey bastard snuck that by everyone.

 

In my family we still call it Rich Stadium. It sounds less pathetic.

[RalphOP83]

Keep New Era Cap and Ralph Wilson in mind....

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

 

Is the state giving your firm money just because it asks for it.. or does it do work for the state and gets paid for that work?

 

 

For real? Google it.

 

Forbes in January:

 

Biggest U.S. Venue Naming-Rights Deals

Total Length value of deal Stadium Team Sponsor ($mil) (years) MetLife Stadium New York Jets/Giants MetLife $450 25 AT&T Stadium Dallas Cowboys AT&T 400 20 Citi Field New York Mets Citigroup 400 20 Mercedes-Benz Stadium Atlanta Falcons Mercedes-Benz 310 27 Reliant Stadium Houston Texans NRG Energy 300 30 SunTrust Park Atlanta Braves SunTrust Banks 250 25 Gillette Stadium New England Patriots Gillette 240+ 30 Levi’s Stadium San Francisco 49ers Levi Strauss 220 20 FedEx Field Washington Redskins FedEx 205 27 Barclays Center Brooklyn Nets Barclays 200 20 U.S. Bank Stadium Minnesota Vikings U.S. Bancorp 200 20 Philips Arena Atlanta Hawks Philips 185 20

 

 

Anyway, all stadium rights stretch over 20-30 years depending on the amount pledged. 50 million over 10 years sounds about right for Buffalo. A drop in the bucket.

 

The most valuable deal here is worth $20MM/yr. If the Bills get $5MM/yr that is worth 25% of the largest deal. That's hardly a drop in the bucket as you so blithely refer to it. In fact many of these top deals you list here are $12MM/yr or less. So $5MM in Buffalo isn't as insignificant as you love to paint it.

Edited June 22, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Mr. WEO]

That is all fine to pound your fist on the table at a town hall meeting but the reality is that 29 of the 31 stadiums received public funding. The stadiums built between 1990-2010 received an average of $262M in public funding. It is the norm and the Bills will be no different.

 

When Pegula asks the state legislature (Erie doesn't have two dimes to rub together) for half a billion for his stadium, half of the politicians east and south of Utica will say "who?" and the other half will remind Buffalo that the state has committed a billion dollars to the Buffalo "medical corridor" (which is basically just vacating large parts of the UB medical community from their current buildings into new ones) and will ask the obvious: "what's in this for me?"

 

Downstate pols aren't going to go for it and neither is the governor. They may kick in some for infrastructure as I said upstream, not much else. They may be craven, but NYS pols aren't nearly as dumb as they are in St. Louis. And most other "publicly funded" stadiums portions are derived from things like increased hotel taxes, which won't work in Buffalo.

 

 

 

The most valuable deal here is worth $20MM/yr. If the Bills get $5MM/yr that is worth 25% of the largest deal. That's hardly a drop in the bucket as you so blithely refer to it. In fact many of these top deals you list here are $12MM/yr or less. So $5MM in Buffalo isn't as insignificant as you love to paint it.

 

 

100 million on a billion dollar stadium is a drop in the bucket. That was the whole point of the discussion.

 

Yep, and I can already hear the crying. Add in $200M from the G4 loan program, $100M for 20yr naming rights, and we're already in the $500M+ neighborhood.

 

 

I don't think you can get the full G4 amount unless you sell a certain amount of PSLs.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[jimmy10]

In my family we still call it Rich Stadium. It sounds less pathetic.

Well then, you go, girl.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

When Pegula asks the state legislature (Erie doesn't have two dimes to rub together) for half a billion for his stadium, half of the politicians east and south of Utica will say "who?" and the other half will remind Buffalo that the state has committed a billion dollars to the Buffalo "medical corridor" (which is basically just vacating large parts of the UB medical community from their current buildings into new ones) and will ask the obvious: "what's in this for me?"

 

Downstate pols aren't going to go for it and neither is the governor. They may kick in some for infrastructure as I said upstream, not much else. They may be craven, but NYS pols aren't nearly as dumb as they are in St. Louis. And most other "publicly funded" stadiums portions are derived from things like increased hotel taxes, which won't work in Buffalo.

 

 

 

100 million on a billion dollar stadium is a drop in the bucket. That was the whole point of the discussion.

 

 

 

I don't think you can get the full G4 amount unless you sell a certain amount of PSLs.

There are poor states everywhere contributing. It is reality and the norm. They will absolutely be chipping in (whether it makes sense or not).

 

You are correct in saying that a lot of other places have done it through taxing hotels, rental cars, etc. they pay it forward. There are lots of ways though that states, counties, or cities subsidize their teams. In Louiana the state handed Tom Benson a giant office building and guaranteed occupancy at 3 times the rate. This hand him millions a year. NY has an interest in working WITH the Pegulas. 93.5% of NFL stadiums receive public funding. I don't know why we should EXPECT anything different.