Stadium Naming Rights

[thebandit27]

 

 

It's not the "state" per se that would dismiss the fracking background of Pegula, it will be the politicians who oppose fracking for political reasons--including the Governor (who's also opposed to funding a stadium).

 

Politicians are craven and the political winds in NYS would be both anti-Buffalo stadium funding and anti fracking. The decision making would become very easy for them. At most, they would defer to a public referendum type thing, which would surely kill the chance of public funding.

 

If revenue sharing and rent were ways for the states to pay off huge stadium debts, I'm sure the public everywhere would never have a problem with handing half a billion of their money to billionaires for a place to hang out in a few Sundays a year. But it doesn't work out that way.

 

If Pegula wants a new stadium, he should pay for it as he has the means. He can absorb any profit or loss incurred by owning a rarely used, insanely expensive facility. Maybe the public could kick in some for roads/access improvement, but that's it.

 

If it goes for public referendum, then the side with the best PR is going to win. Along will come the Pegula PR team, armed with their dozens (and dozens) or research efforts that prove that fracking is safe, along with a nice neat presentation that shows just how little impact that public funding will have on most County residents' pocketbooks. If a stadium is going to cost, say $850M (an educated guess based on some of the designs I've seen at our firm--we'd done some of the preliminary site/civil work for west coast stadiums), then you're probably talking about $250M coming from the public. If it were simply a tax increase on individuals, then you're talking an average of $250 per person for each of the County's ~1M residents. But as you know, that's not how it works. All PSE has to show is that the money will come from a myriad of other sources as well, such as:

 

Lodging taxes (paid primarily by out-of-towners)

Car rental taxes (again, paid primarily by out-of-towners)

Excise and other consumption taxes (which people will always assume they fall on the lower end of)

Etc.

 

I really don't think that public funding will be as big of a hoop as you believe. They won't be asking for the moon; they'll be asking for about 30%, which is on the waaaaaaaaaaaaay low end of what teams have had publicly financed since 2000.

 

 

 

I don't think you can get the full G4 amount unless you sell a certain amount of PSLs.

 

You can do it through cash allocation or PSLs...or by getting an exception from the league. It's pretty loose actually:

 

http://media.signonsandiego.com/news/documents/2011/12/14/NFL_on_its_new_stadium_loan_program.pdf

[Mr. WEO]

There are poor states everywhere contributing. It is reality and the norm. They will absolutely be chipping in (whether it makes sense or not).

 

You are correct in saying that a lot of other places have done it through taxing hotels, rental cars, etc. they pay it forward. There are lots of ways though that states, counties, or cities subsidize their teams. In Louiana the state handed Tom Benson a giant office building and guaranteed occupancy at 3 times the rate. This hand him millions a year. NY has an interest in working WITH the Pegulas. 93.5% of NFL stadiums receive public funding. I don't know why we should EXPECT anything different.

 

I don't see them getting 400-500 million, which is what is being discussed.

 

 

If it goes for public referendum, then the side with the best PR is going to win. Along will come the Pegula PR team, armed with their dozens (and dozens) or research efforts that prove that fracking is safe, along with a nice neat presentation that shows just how little impact that public funding will have on most County residents' pocketbooks. If a stadium is going to cost, say $850M (an educated guess based on some of the designs I've seen at our firm--we'd done some of the preliminary site/civil work for west coast stadiums), then you're probably talking about $250M coming from the public. If it were simply a tax increase on individuals, then you're talking an average of $250 per person for each of the County's ~1M residents. But as you know, that's not how it works. All PSE has to show is that the money will come from a myriad of other sources as well, such as:

 

Lodging taxes (paid primarily by out-of-towners)

Car rental taxes (again, paid primarily by out-of-towners)

Excise and other consumption taxes (which people will always assume they fall on the lower end of)

Etc.

 

I really don't think that public funding will be as big of a hoop as you believe. They won't be asking for the moon; they'll be asking for about 30%, which is on the waaaaaaaaaaaaay low end of what teams have had publicly financed since 2000.

 

 

 

You can do it through cash allocation or PSLs...or by getting an exception from the league. It's pretty loose actually:

 

http://media.signonsandiego.com/news/documents/2011/12/14/NFL_on_its_new_stadium_loan_program.pdf

 

The referendum would not be on fracking, it would be on public funding of the stadium, which the public is overwhelmingly opposed to. There is no PR that can change that as all evidence shows new stadiums do not deliver economic benefit.

 

Buffalo has a glut of unfilled hotel rooms. Erie will not pay for anything by charging a higher rental car and hotel tax.

[thebandit27]

 

I don't see them getting 400-500 million, which is what is being discussed.

 

 

The referendum would not be on fracking, it would be on public funding of the stadium, which the public is overwhelmingly opposed to. There is no PR that can change that as all evidence shows new stadiums do not deliver economic benefit.

 

Buffalo has a glut of unfilled hotel rooms. Erie will not pay for anything by charging a higher rental car and hotel tax.

 

I realize the referendum wouldn't be on fracking; I'm saying that if the state wants to use fracking as a political motive to deny funding, they'll lose that PR battle.

 

I also believe that the team would be able to make the economic impact to the every-man much more palatable than it appears.

 

And no, they won't get $400M...more like $250M IMO

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I don't see them getting 400-500 million, which is what is being discussed.

 

 

The referendum would not be on fracking, it would be on public funding of the stadium, which the public is overwhelmingly opposed to. There is no PR that can change that as all evidence shows new stadiums do not deliver economic benefit.

 

Buffalo has a glut of unfilled hotel rooms. Erie will not pay for anything by charging a higher rental car and hotel tax.

That's fair. $400M has been the number in my head for a while but I am starting to think that it will be quite a bit less. Maybe $200-$250M.

[thebandit27]

That's fair. $400M has been the number in my head for a while but I am starting to think that it will be quite a bit less. Maybe $200-$250M.

 

Yep.

 

I'm thinking $400M private, $200M from G4, and $250M public

[Mr. WEO]

 

I realize the referendum wouldn't be on fracking; I'm saying that if the state wants to use fracking as a political motive to deny funding, they'll lose that PR battle.

 

I also believe that the team would be able to make the economic impact to the every-man much more palatable than it appears.

 

And no, they won't get $400M...more like $250M IMO

 

 

PR battles could not save fracking before, and they won't now. It's banned and polls show NYers support the ban. Politicians would not want to be seen as significantly financing a new toy for a fracking billionaire. There's no upside for them, so why would they ever vote to approve funding 200-300 million?

 

It would be hard for a PR team to erase all of the data that demonstrates that new stadiums do not deliver what taxpayers are promised.

[MarkyMannn]

 

$850M (an educated guess based on some of the designs I've seen at our firm--we'd done some of the preliminary site/civil work for west coast stadiums), then you're probably talking about $250M coming from the public. If it were simply a tax increase on individuals, then you're talking an average of $250 per person for each of the County's ~1M residents.

I would question the 1mm residents as taxpayers. Take out children, un-employed, elderly and public assistance, you are probably left with top 200,000 taxpayers. Maybe then that peaks at $1,500/person. That would be a tough sell.

 

I would venture that half of the people in the city itself are entirely dependent on the gov't to take care of them

[sodbuster]

The Original Pizza Log Field at Ralph Wilson Stadium

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's put together a list of serious contenders for naming rights:

Here are two:

GEICO

Solar City

[YoloinOhio]

Let's put together a list of serious contenders for naming rights:

Here are two:

GEICO

Solar City

 

Wegmans

New Era

Delaware North

M&T

Edited June 23, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[thebandit27]

Wegmans

New Era

Delaware North

M&T

 

Doesn't M&T already sponsor Baltimore's football stadium? If that's correct, then I believe we can take them off the list.

 

I'll add:

 

Paychex

Labatt Blue (if they'll let an alcohol company do it)

Kaleida

Tops

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Doesn't M&T already sponsor Baltimore's football stadium? If that's correct, then I believe we can take them off the list.

 

I'll add:

 

Paychex

Labatt Blue (if they'll let an alcohol company do it)

Kaleida

Tops

Mercedes has the Superdome and the new Atlanta Stadium. AT&T has a few arenas too. I remember when the Heat played the Mavs they had both arenas.

[thebandit27]

Mercedes has the Superdome and the new Atlanta Stadium. AT&T has a few arenas too. I remember when the Heat played the Mavs they had both arenas.

 

Oh sweet...well then yeah, put M&T back on the list.

Wegmans

New Era

Delaware North

M&T

 

Mea culpa, Yolo

[YoloinOhio]

Not based on Buffalo, not Buffalo Wild Wings (we still call it BW3 here) would be wise to try to get in on something like that due to its theme and national reach. Not sure the Bills would want them as their sponsor though

Edited June 23, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[PromoTheRobot]

Not based on Buffalo, not Buffalo Wild Wings (we still call it BW3 here) would be wise to try to get in on something like that due to its theme and national reach. Not sure the Bills would want them as their sponsor though

I don't think a naming sponsor has to be connected to Buffalo. Any company that wants to be tied to the NFL would consider it. And this is another incentive for the Bills to get better soon. They could get more if they break the playoff drought. They could probably get even more on a fancy new stadium too.

[Gugny]

I don't think a naming sponsor has to be connected to Buffalo. Any company that wants to be tied to the NFL would consider it. And this is another incentive for the Bills to get better soon. They could get more if they break the playoff drought. They could probably get even more on a fancy new stadium too.

 

Are there any major credit companies/banks that haven't latched onto a stadium, yet? For instance, Mets have Citi. Dbacks have Chase.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't think a naming sponsor has to be connected to Buffalo. Any company that wants to be tied to the NFL would consider it. And this is another incentive for the Bills to get better soon. They could get more if they break the playoff drought. They could probably get even more on a fancy new stadium too.

i don't think it does either and that's why it makes sense for BW3 to want to get in on that. They would really benefit from being tied to the NFL.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Are there any major credit companies/banks that haven't latched onto a stadium, yet? For instance, Mets have Citi. Dbacks have Chase.

Capital One? Discover? Is Diner's Club still around?

Edited June 23, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[LewPort71]

Just for historical perspective, Rich Products paid

$1.5MM over a 25 year term for the naming rights to Rich Stadium in 1973.

$60,000 per year.

Edited June 23, 2016 by LewPort71

[YoloinOhio]

Capital One? Discover? Is Diner's Club still around?

i could see one of the Fintechs wanting naming rights on an NFL stadium.