RD 1, Pick 19: DE Shaq Lawson, Clemson University

[eball]

to be fair, i was referring to a decent number of people that dont contribute at all or actively detract from conversation. when he is taking the time to educate himself and share that here i am fine with him being short with people that have no interest in actually gaining from the conversation or have made no effort to back up their takes.

 

do some good people get caught in the crossfire? probably. is it the best look? probably not. but ive generally found him to be fine with most people that take the time to come at him with stats, measurables, comparable players, etc.... to refute him, or actual questions about his takes.

 

my two cents - but ill move on since it is a detour to the thread

 

But what makes his opinions more worthy of consideration? Is he just a guy sitting around in his house watching film? Is he a coach? My god, from his posts you'd assume he's on the short list of GMs-to-be. That's what I take issue with. Let us know who you are and why your opinions should carry more weight -- don't just post them as facts all of us are too stupid too understand.

[26CornerBlitz]

Finding it hard to be excited, seems to me that Bills continue to simply tread water. Lose Mario and gain Shaq. Granted Mario was shell of his former self, but pre-Rex, Mario was dominant, last year he sucked. Add Shaq and we are back to where we were in 2014.

 

To compete for Super Bowl, this team needs step function improvement and needs to stop running in place. 7-9, 9-7, 8-8, simply doesn't cut it.

 

Getting a talented player who will play with a positive attitude and give 100% effort in any role he's asked to play is not treading water.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

Getting a talented player who will play with a positive attitude and give 100% effort in any role he's asked to play is not treading water.

 

Shaq 2016 v.Mario 2015 is improvement, Shaq 2016 v. Mario 2014 is not.

 

Improvement would have been Rex being able to get out of Mario in 2016 what he gave in 2014 and using draft pick to improve team in another area of need

 

Like I said, finding it hard to get excited or too optimistic over this team and this pick at this time

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Shaq 2016 v.Mario 2015 is improvement, Shaq 2016 v. Mario 2014 is not.

 

Improvement would have been Rex being able to get out of Mario in 2016 what he gave in 2014 and using draft pick to improve team in another area of need

 

Like I said, finding it hard to get excited or too optimistic over this team and this pick at this time

 

So you admit its an improvement over last year.

 

And the coach can only do so much. If a spoiled vet like Mario doesnt want to try, not much anyone can do. He's just going to sit on his tractor and count his money.

 

This was all Mario's choice, so the Bills made the appropriate moves and replaced/upgraded him while saving millions.

 

Just curious, what pick would have excited you as a giant leap forward?

[P51]

 

I don't know exactly what your post is saying but Whaley said naturally guys add 5-10 lbs once they get on an NFL diet. Sounds like they welcome him getting a little bigger.

 

Im saying that I would like him to drop some weight, from 269 to about 260 so that he is a little quicker and able to move better. That would allow him to be a better pass rusher athletically IMO while still allowing him to use his power and strength, it would make him a better pass rusher, attack the edge with speed and enhance his ability to play in space in coverage as a OLB. If he stays at his weight or adds weight, I think it would compromise his movement skills and then he would compare favorably to Shaun Ellis, which is not a knock on him, but IMO would limit his athleticism and ability to drop and rush (attack with speed), making him more of on the LOS end. I think he could shed weight and do both, adding weight IMO is going to be more limiting for him in terms of his ability.

[DrDawkinstein]

If he is anything like Shaun Ellis, I would be thrilled.

 

Very underrated player for the Jets for several years.

 

Agreed, and people need to realize we're picking at 19, not top 10 like in most previous years. There is a difference in talent and expectation.

 

If we get a solid starter and contributor, then its a win. We dont need a superstar, nor should it be expected.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Agreed, and people need to realize we're picking at 19, not top 10 like in most previous years. There is a difference in talent and expectation.

 

If we get a solid starter and contributor, then its a win. We dont need a superstar, nor should it be expected.

the nice thing for Shaq coming into this situation is that he's not going to have to be "the guy" right away as we have Hughes. Sometimes 1st round pass rushers are coming in and expected to take over and getting double teamed. He's used to being in that role, but here he will get a chance to develop with a group of established vets. It's a great fit for a young, eager rookie who appears ready to learn.

 

Additionally he will probably rotate some with Manny which will help him transition to the pro game/long season.

Edited April 29, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[OP Class75]

Rex reacts to the pick.

 

YESSSSSS!!!!! My Idiot looser brother and I get to waste another stud DE by dropping him into coverage!!!!!!

[NoSaint]

 

Agreed, and people need to realize we're picking at 19, not top 10 like in most previous years. There is a difference in talent and expectation.

 

If we get a solid starter and contributor, then its a win. We dont need a superstar, nor should it be expected.

i do believe that is part of the hesitation -- people are used to seeing us land someone in that first tier. We werent picking in that group but lawson is a very solid selection in the second tier.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

So you admit its an improvement over last year.

 

And the coach can only do so much. If a spoiled vet like Mario doesnt want to try, not much anyone can do. He's just going to sit on his tractor and count his money.

 

This was all Mario's choice, so the Bills made the appropriate moves and replaced/upgraded him while saving millions.

 

Just curious, what pick would have excited you as a giant leap forward?

 

I'm not convinced Mario's regression was his and his alone, same player with different coach, actually same defense with different coach produced a lot more.

 

My frustration is the overall lack of improvement and the fact the Bills are stuck in mediocrity and not so much this particular pick.

 

I thought this team was a legit (not franchise) QB from getting to playoffs, which would have been a good step forward. After last year, I'm not sure where this team is ? All of sudden, we have holes at DL, LB and S. The offense took a step forward and the defense took a huge step backward. Progress ?

 

Free agency has been a net loss and every team improves on draft day.

 

Like I said, hard to find reason to get excited. Not faulting Shaq per se, just the lack of overall progress

 

As for the pick, I would have preferred a trade down and add a pick in 2nd/3rd to get more help with the other areas of need.

[26CornerBlitz]

@SalSports

Sabres GM Murray joined Bills War Room: http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-GM-Murray-joined-Bills-War-Room/22714549

[DrDawkinstein]

Very underwhelming, uninspired pick but as long as they don't use him as an excuse to pass on other pass rush prospects in this draft or future drafts it is just an isolated issue.

 

If you want to know what I mean......think Chris Kelsay and the years of suffering we had to endure because they adored his high motor.

 

Shaq is not really an NFL pass rusher at this point and as I explained in the face of the Reggie Ragnuts/Jarran Reed love the first round is about passing and stopping the pass game and true to form run gamers were all but banned from the first round.

 

Shaq doesn't have the bend or the frame or the long arms or handwork of a pass rusher and it shows in how he is always leaning on offensive tackles.....that's the surest way for a 260# DE to get and stay blocked in the NFL.

 

He is an overrated try-hard IMO and it seems like every year there are 1-2 of these types of guys that just HAVE to be selected by an NFL team because they have good character and a high motor.

 

My comparisons are Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram.

 

Those are replacement level players and nothing you'd pay much for in free agency.

 

Ingram had something of a breakout year this year.......but he's been a 4 sack kinda guy....and he and Shaq are VERY similar athletes.......if anything Ingram might have been a bit more athletic having dropped into coverage at lot at South Carolina.

 

I'd love it if I am wrong and he turns into one of those players who transcends his physical ability and dominates behind the LOS.......Tamba Hali? I'll take that!!..... but on the hoof he's not that impressive and I don't really see where Mayock gets that comparison.

 

Interesting you mention Upshaw and Ingram, but leave out Dont'a Hightower who plays the same DE/OLB position and is closest in size to Shaq.

 

Hightower has been very successful so far, and if we get that type of productivity out of our #19 pick, then its a win.

[dave mcbride]

to be fair, i was referring to a decent number of people that dont contribute at all or actively detract from conversation. when he is taking the time to educate himself and share that here i am fine with him being short with people that have no interest in actually gaining from the conversation or have made no effort to back up their takes.

 

do some good people get caught in the crossfire? probably. is it the best look? probably not. but ive generally found him to be fine with most people that take the time to come at him with stats, measurables, comparable players, etc.... to refute him, or actual questions about his takes.

 

my two cents - but ill move on since it is a detour to the thread

Badol is a good guy with a particular style that can be grating to some. Get past it and engage with him about facts, and you'll be surprised at how nice/reasonable he'll be. Also, you'll learn a lot. Years ago, I debated him about Reggie White v. Bruce Smith, and he thought Bruce was clearly the better player (and the point is certainly still arguable). But then I presented him with White's stellar postseason career and he admitted that I had a point about White's dominance. Anyway, just accept that there will be some snark and try to ignore it. He's one of the guys that makes this board such a good one. He's been hear for years and years, and it's people like him that have ensured that the amount of low-information BS happy talk on this board remains low.

Edited April 29, 2016 by dave mcbride

[DrDawkinstein]

 

I'm not convinced Mario's regression was his and his alone, same player with different coach, actually same defense with different coach produced a lot more.

 

My frustration is the overall lack of improvement and the fact the Bills are stuck in mediocrity and not so much this particular pick.

 

I thought this team was a legit (not franchise) QB from getting to playoffs, which would have been a good step forward. After last year, I'm not sure where this team is ? All of sudden, we have holes at DL, LB and S. The offense took a step forward and the defense took a huge step backward. Progress ?

 

Free agency has been a net loss and every team improves on draft day.

 

Like I said, hard to find reason to get excited. Not faulting Shaq per se, just the lack of overall progress

 

As for the pick, I would have preferred a trade down and add a pick in 2nd/3rd to get more help with the other areas of need.

 

OK, but who should we have picked in the 1st then?

[26CornerBlitz]

@pecrawleynfl

Cool behind the scenes of Shaq Lawson's draft day. Can't wait to have this guy on the @buffalobills.

https://t.co/DgzcvUkU0g

 

I'm not convinced Mario's regression was his and his alone, same player with different coach, actually same defense with different coach produced a lot more.

 

My frustration is the overall lack of improvement and the fact the Bills are stuck in mediocrity and not so much this particular pick.

 

I thought this team was a legit (not franchise) QB from getting to playoffs, which would have been a good step forward. After last year, I'm not sure where this team is ? All of sudden, we have holes at DL, LB and S. The offense took a step forward and the defense took a huge step backward. Progress ?

 

Free agency has been a net loss and every team improves on draft day.

 

Like I said, hard to find reason to get excited. Not faulting Shaq per se, just the lack of overall progress

 

As for the pick, I would have preferred a trade down and add a pick in 2nd/3rd to get more help with the other areas of need.

 

OBD had an opportunity to trade down (reportedly with Dallas), but they felt that Lawson's value and fit was too good for what they were being offered. I don't find any fault at all with the pick based on the need and the talent of the player.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

OK, but who should we have picked in the 1st then?

 

I would have been happier with Robinson, Spence or Ragland at end of 1st and have an extra 2nd

 

Another option would have been to roll dice on Jack at end of 1st, high risk/high reward with an eye on longer term if he needs micro-fracture

[BuffaloBillsForever]

 

I would have been happier with Robinson, Spence or Ragland at end of 1st and have an extra 2nd

 

Another option would have been to roll dice on Jack at end of 1st, high risk/high reward with an eye on longer term if he needs micro-fracture

 

That would have been a very nice plan.

 

Good job.

Edited April 29, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[Bookie Man]

Most importantly, can he hit free throws?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I would have been happier with Robinson, Spence or Ragland at end of 1st and have an extra 2nd

 

Another option would have been to roll dice on Jack at end of 1st, high risk/high reward with an eye on longer term if he needs micro-fracture

 

They would have traded out of the 1st round assuming it was Dallas as reported, so where are you getting an extra 2nd round pick from? Without the intel on the medical for Jack, not sure how you say it was worth the risk.

 

@alexmarvez

I know at least 1 team strongly considered drafting @MylesJack late in Round 1. Couldn't get over knee issue & take the risk. @SiriusXMNFL

Edited April 29, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[Wayne Cubed]

 

I would have been happier with Robinson, Spence or Ragland at end of 1st and have an extra 2nd

 

Another option would have been to roll dice on Jack at end of 1st, high risk/high reward with an eye on longer term if he needs micro-fracture

 

That's assuming the Bills would have gotten another 2nd. All the trades that happened after Cleveland didn't net a 2nd this year. Denvers jump to 26th netted Seattle a 3rd round pick. Maybe no team was offering a 2nd.