K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Well that's where we fundamentally disagree. They made an offer consistent with their cap situation and the reality that Fitzpatrick is not the quarterback of the future, beyond the next 2-3 years at the most. They've drafted a QB in 3 of the last 4 drafts in Hackenberg, Petty, and Smith. I really don't believe they're going to kill their salary cap situation by signing a bridge QB to the type of deal you think or that Fitzpatrick wants. As stated before, if the tune changes, I'll admit I was wrong. However, the lack of interest from any other team in the NFL gives the Jets all the leverage. They truly don't have to do anything other than split the reps in camp among the three QB's that are actually there. And Fitz made a counter-offer consistent with his performance last season, where it ranks with other starters and their compensation, and also, like the Jest, because he knows years two and three are a moot point. As to leverage, I don't think that enters into Fitz's mindset. But it's interesting, that while no other team has offered him anything, the Jest are offering the $12m Fitz is looking for (spare me the rhetoric about how the Jest need to amortize it to ease the cap hit). Fitz has no leverage vis a vis other teams competing for his services, but he has leverage in knowing that he has value to the Jest. If Fitz is as worthless as some think, why are the Jest even bothering at all? They certainly don't have to bid against themselves, so what gives? Why are they interested in Fitz? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 And Fitz made a counter-offer consistent with his performance last season, where it ranks with other starters and their compensation, and also, like the Jest, because he knows years two and three are a moot point. As to leverage, I don't think that enters into Fitz's mindset. But it's interesting, that while no other team has offered him anything, the Jest are offering the $12m Fitz is looking for (spare me the rhetoric about how the Jest need to amortize it to ease the cap hit). Fitz has no leverage vis a vis other teams competing for his services, but he has leverage in knowing that he has value to the Jest. If Fitz is as worthless as some think, why are the Jest even bothering at all? They certainly don't have to bid against themselves, so what gives? Why are they interested in Fitz? GO BILLS!!! Personally, I think that the contract they offered speaks to this. Why go $12M, $6M, $6M with the first year + $3M guaranteed in the second? IMO, they view him as being better than the youngsters they currently have, but also believe one of those guys will be the starter in 1-2 years. The contract is essentially a bridge contract. They pay him for the first year for the other guys to learn. Thus the $12M guaranteed salary in year one. Then they only commit $3M next year in the event that one of those other guys is ready. $3M cap hit to let him walk or only $6M salary if they need him for the second year. Year 3 is 100% optional. Their plan is moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Personally, I think that the contract they offered speaks to this. Why go $12M, $6M, $6M with the first year + $3M guaranteed in the second? IMO, they view him as being better than the youngsters they currently have, but also believe one of those guys will be the starter in 1-2 years. The contract is essentially a bridge contract. They pay him for the first year for the other guys to learn. Thus the $12M guaranteed salary in year one. Then they only commit $3M next year in the event that one of those other guys is ready. $3M cap hit to let him walk or only $6M salary if they need him for the second year. Year 3 is 100% optional. Their plan is moving on. I agree with this kind of. I think that they "think" that Petty or Sackenberg may be their QB next year and hopefully by the year after. The contract speaks to that. If Fitz turns in the same year as last year though he will be the starting QB again next year. That's why he is pushing for a 1 year deal. He is banking on his performance getting him more than 2 years and $12M (which I think only $3M is guaranteed) on the open market. Even if he is average this year he can probably get $8M a year if he hits free agency. Something like the Chase Daniel or RG3 deal. That is where I think that the middle ground comes in and this deal either gets done or it doesn't. The Jets are going to have to raise the guarantees after this year or give him a voidable option to get out of the current deal. Ultimately that will happen or it won't and the Jets will run Geno out there. Edited June 14, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Personally, I think that the contract they offered speaks to this. Why go $12M, $6M, $6M with the first year + $3M guaranteed in the second? IMO, they view him as being better than the youngsters they currently have, but also believe one of those guys will be the starter in 1-2 years. The contract is essentially a bridge contract. They pay him for the first year for the other guys to learn. Thus the $12M guaranteed salary in year one. Then they only commit $3M next year in the event that one of those other guys is ready. $3M cap hit to let him walk or only $6M salary if they need him for the second year. Year 3 is 100% optional. Their plan is moving on. Can we at least agree that Fitz has value to the Jest, the Jest freely admit that he has value, the real dollars paid to Fitz are agreeable to both sides, and that no other teams are interested in Fitz at any price? We really need to put the idea that Fitz is worthless to bed. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Can we at least agree that Fitz has value to the Jest, the Jest freely admit that he has value, the real dollars paid to Fitz are agreeable to both sides, and that no other teams are interested in Fitz at any price? We really need to put the idea that Fitz is worthless to bed. GO BILLS!!! Wait for it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Wait for it...... A sign of intelligence from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Can we at least agree that Fitz has value to the Jest, the Jest freely admit that he has value, the real dollars paid to Fitz are agreeable to both sides, and that no other teams are interested in Fitz at any price? We really need to put the idea that Fitz is worthless to bed. GO BILLS!!! Yes, Yes, No, and Yes. Nobody is saying Fitz is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Nobody is saying Fitz is worthless. Of course not. His wife and kids think the world of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Of course not. His wife and kids think the world of him. That is a hilarious WIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 This thread is weak !! Fitzpicksix ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 This thread is weak !! Fitzpicksix ! My favorite Fitzpun ever. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Schefter talked about it this morning on Mike & Mike. It is no closer to being resolved. I have to admit I wouldn't hate a home open against Geno Smith at night. I am going to go ahead and put a "W" next to it in permanent marker. Oh shat. Time to put money on the Jests! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 @adamschefter Joe Namath said at NYC luncheon Tuesday, "I think Geno's going to be the starting quarterback no matter if Fitzpatrick comes back or not." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 @adamschefter Joe Namath said at NYC luncheon Tuesday, "I think Geno's going to be the starting quarterback no matter if Fitzpatrick comes back or not." Oh, Joe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Both Fitz and Geno are placeholders for Hack. They're not going to give either big money. Not saying Hack will prove to be anything, but they didn't draft him in the 2nd round to have him develop for more than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Both Fitz and Geno are placeholders for Hack. They're not going to give either big money. Not saying Hack will prove to be anything, but they didn't draft him in the 2nd round to have him develop for more than a year. I think the Jets should sign Fitz for 2 years. You see how this year goes and if Fitz or the Jets regress, you have an open competition for the job. Hackenberg needs a lot of work. But this is what the Bills should have done with Fitz. Fitz is the perfect veteran qb to learn under because he doesn't have a big ego and he went to Harvard (so he's wicked smart). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Obviously he wants a multi-year deal or a 1 year $12M deal. There are options to make that a reality though. The Jets are going to have to give up on the idea of Fitz at $6M in years 2-3. Maybe something like 3 years, $30M with $20M guaranteed in the first 2 years ($12M in the 1st) would get it done? The point that I am trying to make is that there are options. wa The issue comes down to is how is the deal going to be structured. My position is more aligned with Luxy than it is with you from the total numbers standpoint and annual cap hit. Right from the beginning I have felt that a deal will get struck but it will be structured in such a way that the end product will lean more toward the Jets stance than from Fitz's stance. Where I do disagree with you is that I don't believe the Jets will be as reluctant to go with Smith as their option at qb as you believe if they can't get the kind of deal they want with Fitz. It might not be their preference but for them it would be an acceptable fallback position. If you look at how the Jets have approached this issue it appears that they have not budged much from their position, and haven't made any visible overtures to the other side of the negotiating table. What that indicates to me is that from the beginning they have staked out a position and are willing to go to their fallback position (another starting qb) if they can't get the deal they want with Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The issue comes down to is how is the deal going to be structured. My position is more aligned with Luxy than it is with you from the total numbers standpoint and annual cap hit. Right from the beginning I have felt that a deal will get struck but it will be structured in such a way that the end product will lean more toward the Jets stance than from Fitz's stance. Where I do disagree with you is that I don't believe the Jets will be as reluctant to go with Smith as their option at qb as you believe if they can't get the kind of deal they want with Fitz. It might not be their preference but for them it would be an acceptable fallback position. If you look at how the Jets have approached this issue it appears that they have not budged much from their position, and haven't made any visible overtures to the other side of the negotiating table. What that indicates to me is that from the beginning they have staked out a position and are willing to go to their fallback position (another starting qb) if they can't get the deal they want with Fitz. Do you really believe this? You honestly believe that the Jets are comfortable with Geno Smith starting on a team coming off of a 10 win season? I say no chance regardless of the lip service that they (and Joe Namath) are trying to feed us. This would be the exact same thing as if Tyrod were holding out and the Bills tried to sell us on being comfortable with EJ if they can't get a deal done. No one would believe it regardless of what they said publicly. The numbers and level of play speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm with JohnC here. I do believe the Jets are comfortable with Geno Smith. Every indication from mandatory minicamp and OTA's support this as well. They're not splitting first team reps among the three QB's. Geno is getting all the first team work while Hackenberg and Petty are splitting the rest. Bowles has come out and said he doesn't have a deadline and that he'll just get the other guys ready to play. His actions (not lip service) support his statements. As far as Tyrod being the same as Fitzpatrick, that's complete nonsense. A guy that just signs a 3 year deal and starts his first year in the NFL is not the same as a guy that's played 10 average seasons in the NFL before having 1 good year that's a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm with JohnC here. I do believe the Jets are comfortable with Geno Smith. Every indication from mandatory minicamp and OTA's support this as well. They're not splitting first team reps among the three QB's. Geno is getting all the first team work while Hackenberg and Petty are splitting the rest. Bowles has come out and said he doesn't have a deadline and that he'll just get the other guys ready to play. His actions (not lip service) support his statements. As far as Tyrod being the same as Fitzpatrick, that's complete nonsense. A guy that just signs a 3 year deal and starts his first year in the NFL is not the same as a guy that's played 10 average seasons in the NFL before having 1 good year that's a free agent.Well this is a topic that we will never agree on. It will all play out. I'm hoping that the Jets do start Geno. If they do they're irrelevant but have enough other talent to win enough games to not pick at the top. I will bow out on the topic because the disagreement has derailed it. I will be really surprised if something doesn't get done. I hope that it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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