K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Now I am confused? Both team have agreed to a guaranteed $12M for 2016. That isn't up for debate. The Jets need it to be structured as a signing bonus to prorate the cap hit. To do that they need a multi year deal. If the Jets make years 2-3 voidable if he meets certain criteria (like the Tyrod deal) we will probably have a deal. The $12m is not in question. At this point, I think we are being trolled, Kirby. Nobody can be that ignorant of the facts unless on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Sigh... if you are confused then there is no hope for you to ever understand contracts. Um, what am I confused about? I think that I have a decent grasp about the structure of NFL contracts. At this point, I think we are being trolled, Kirby. Nobody can be that ignorant of the facts unless on purpose. That has to be the case right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Um, what am I confused about? I think that I have a decent grasp about the structure of NFL contracts. Are you sure b.c you are confused with the current situation going on right now 3 years $24 million, 1 year $12 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Um, what am I confused about? I think that I have a decent grasp about the structure of NFL contracts. That has to be the case right? Unfortunately, yes. My faith in humanity prevents me from believing somebody can actually be that unable to grasp such simple concepts and then choose to argue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Unfortunately, yes. My faith in humanity prevents me from believing somebody can actually be that unable to grasp such simple concepts and then choose to argue them. Crazy the two people that can't grasp something so simple both have a name that starts with K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Now I am confused? Both team have agreed to a guaranteed $12M for 2016. That isn't up for debate. The Jets need it to be structured as a signing bonus to prorate the cap hit. To do that they need a multi year deal. If the Jets make years 2-3 voidable if he meets certain criteria (like the Tyrod deal) we will probably have a deal. The $12m is not in question. Wow. $12 million for 2016 is not agreed. There is NO CONTRACT. It's up to debate because they're still debating it. Fitzpatrick is free to sign with any other team and hasn't gotten a sniff. His value is not what you suggest. Is he a member of your extended family by any chance or do you just have neck beard envy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Are you sure b.c you are confused with the current situation going on right now 3 years $24 million, 1 year $12 million. The contract is structured to guarantee $12M in year 1. If Fitz never plays another down after this year he will make $12M in his proposal and theirs. They need it as a signing bonus to spread it over 3 years. The simple solution is to make years 2-3 voidable if he plays 50% of the snaps (or something like that). The Jets are trying to tie him up cheap in the future ($6M ish) and that is what he is objecting to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Crazy the two people that can't grasp something so simple both have a name that starts with K... It's was amusing for a while jerky, but you have grown boring. Let me know when you have new material. GO BILLS!!! The contract is structured to guarantee $12M in year 1. If Fitz never plays another down after this year he will make $12M in his proposal and theirs. They need it as a signing bonus to spread it over 3 years. The simple solution is to make years 2-3 voidable if he plays 50% of the snaps (or something like that). The Jets are trying to tie him up cheap in the future ($6M ish) and that is what he is objecting to. ^This. Nuance is everything. But only if we can grasp it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Wow. $12 million for 2016 is not agreed. There is NO CONTRACT. It's up to debate because they're still debating it. Fitzpatrick is free to sign with any other team and hasn't gotten a sniff. His value is not what you suggest. Is he a member of your extended family by any chance or do you just have neck beard envy? He has offered a deal that will pay him $12M this year. They have offered a deal that will pay him $12M this year. Fitz can play for $12M this year without any further negotiation. I know a little about the subject. I have a master's degree in sports management and worked in pro sports for 8 years. I do understand what is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 He has offered a deal that will pay him $12M this year. They have offered a deal that will pay him $12M this year. Fitz can play for $12M this year without any further negotiation. I know a little about the subject. I have a master's degree in sports management and worked in pro sports for 8 years. I do understand what is going on here. When there's actually a signed contract, let me know. Until then, you're just a delusional backer of an unemployed quarterback with minimal options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 When there's actually a signed contract, let me know. Until then, you're just a delusional backer of an unemployed quarterback with minimal options. What are you debating? Are you saying that he CAN'T play for $12M this year? Honestly, I could care less what Fitz signs (or doesn't sign) for. It makes no difference to me. I am just trying to bring facts to the table. The fact is that he could make $12M this year without any further negotiation. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/204751/trying-to-build-a-bridge-for-the-jets-and-their-bridge-quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 What are you debating? Are you saying that he CAN'T play for $12M this year? Honestly, I could care less what Fitz signs (or doesn't sign) for. It makes no difference to me. I am just trying to bring facts to the table. The fact is that he could make $12M this year without any further negotiation. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/204751/trying-to-build-a-bridge-for-the-jets-and-their-bridge-quarterback His worth, period. If he was worth $12M to play one year, he would have a contract already. He doesn't. The article clearly says that the Jets won't offer him a 1-year deal and want a 3-year BRIDGE deal, laden with incentives that he's not likely to achieve. So their offer is 12-6-6 with 15 guaranteed. That's $8-9 million per year depending on when he yields the starting position to Hackenberg or Petty and whether he even sees the third year of that contract. So you saying they agree is just plain wrong. For a guy that supposedly has a masters degree in sports management, you clearly don't understand what a contract is and what it is not. As of right now, he's not getting paid anything and has no offers on the table from any other team. You debating that he COULD make $12M this year is factually incorrect unless you accept the premise that there's two additional years where he'll get $6M each year. Fitzpatrick wants $14-16M per year, while the Jets are offering a $24M 3-year deal with only $15M guaranteed. Fitzpatrick may want a one year deal for $12M, but the Jets have not offered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 His worth, period. If he was worth $12M to play one year, he would have a contract already. He doesn't. The article clearly says that the Jets won't offer him a 1-year deal and want a 3-year BRIDGE deal, laden with incentives that he's not likely to achieve. So their offer is 12-6-6 with 15 guaranteed. That's $8-9 million per year depending on when he yields the starting position to Hackenberg or Petty and whether he even sees the third year of that contract. So you saying they agree is just plain wrong. For a guy that supposedly has a masters degree in sports management, you clearly don't understand what a contract is and what it is not. As of right now, he's not getting paid anything and has no offers on the table from any other team. You debating that he COULD make $12M this year is factually incorrect unless you accept the premise that there's two additional years where he'll get $6M each year. Fitzpatrick wants $14-16M per year, while the Jets are offering a $24M 3-year deal with only $15M guaranteed. Fitzpatrick may want a one year deal for $12M, but the Jets have not offered that. If he plays 1 year and never plays again how much will he make? You don't even need my "supposed" degree to figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) If he plays 1 year and never plays again how much will he make? You don't even need my "supposed" degree to figure that out. Well, now you're telling me he's going to do something that HE SAYS he doesn't want to do. Way to fabricate your own narrative. What if the Jets offered him a 10 year $250M deal, with nothing guaranteed in the first year and then cut him? That's right, the answer is that nobody really cares for delusions not grounded in reality, which is the viewpoint that you're espousing. Edited June 14, 2016 by Luxy312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Well, now you're telling me he's going to do something that HE SAYS he doesn't want to do. Way to fabricate your own narrative. What if the Jets offered him a 10 year $250M deal, with nothing guaranteed in the first year and then cut him? That's right, the answer is that nobody really cares for delusions not grounded in reality, which is the viewpoint that you're espousing. When did he say that he didn't want to do that? He doesn't want to be tied to the year 2-3 salary. If the Jets made those voidable years he'd probably agree. He's not going to sign the deal structured as it is. He's 33 years old (or something like that) with a Harvard education. Is it crazy to think that he may retire after this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 When did he say that he didn't want to do that? He doesn't want to be tied to the year 2-3 salary. If the Jets made those voidable years he'd probably agree. He's not going to sign the deal structured as it is. He's 33 years old (or something like that) with a Harvard education. Is it crazy to think that he may retire after this year? Based on the actions of both the team and Fitzpatrick, it is coo coo for coco puffs crazy. Follow the logic steps here and you'll get there. The Jets won't give him voidable years because they want him on a bridge contract or no contract at all. If they were going to give him voidable years, they would just give him a one year deal, which they will not at $12M. That is precisely where they're at right now and what they've put on the table. If Fitzpatrick was planning to retire after this year, he would take the $24M offer on with $15M guaranteed and a $12M salary this year that he said he would accept in the form of a one year contract for that amount. He has refused. Implicitly, he wants to play after this year and doesn't want to be tied down to a $6M salary next year or the year after. He's a smart enough guy (Harvard as you've said) to know that he's not likely going to achieve the incentives offered in the deal the Jets put on the table. The remaining delusion that there's a market for Ryan Fitzpatrick at $12M for a year. Thus far, there isn't. There is no option on the table right now for the Jets to get what they want in an $8-9M per year bridge quarterback for 2-3 years, OR for Fitzpatrick to get the multi-year deal he's looking for at the price range that he wants. It's crystal clear to me that Fitzpatrick wants to be a starter for multiple years and wants to get paid accordingly. It's also crystal clear to me that the Jets do not value him as such. How you're maintaining some alternate reality is baffling. If the Jets at some point offer a multi-year deal at $12M per year, I'll eat my words and say I'm wrong. If Fitzpatrick accepts the 3-year deal, I'll entertain the idea that he would consider retirement after just one more year. Until either of those days come, I'll let logic guide my perceptions of reality and not feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Based on the actions of both the team and Fitzpatrick, it is coo coo for coco puffs crazy. Follow the logic steps here and you'll get there. The Jets won't give him voidable years because they want him on a bridge contract or no contract at all. If they were going to give him voidable years, they would just give him a one year deal, which they will not at $12M. That is precisely where they're at right now and what they've put on the table. If Fitzpatrick was planning to retire after this year, he would take the $24M offer on with $15M guaranteed and a $12M salary this year that he said he would accept in the form of a one year contract for that amount. He has refused. Implicitly, he wants to play after this year and doesn't want to be tied down to a $6M salary next year or the year after. He's a smart enough guy (Harvard as you've said) to know that he's not likely going to achieve the incentives offered in the deal the Jets put on the table. The remaining delusion that there's a market for Ryan Fitzpatrick at $12M for a year. Thus far, there isn't. There is no option on the table right now for the Jets to get what they want in an $8-9M per year bridge quarterback for 2-3 years, OR for Fitzpatrick to get the multi-year deal he's looking for at the price range that he wants. It's crystal clear to me that Fitzpatrick wants to be a starter for multiple years and wants to get paid accordingly. It's also crystal clear to me that the Jets do not value him as such. How you're maintaining some alternate reality is baffling. If the Jets at some point offer a multi-year deal at $12M per year, I'll eat my words and say I'm wrong. If Fitzpatrick accepts the 3-year deal, I'll entertain the idea that he would consider retirement after just one more year. Until either of those days come, I'll let logic guide my perceptions of reality and not feelings. It's important that we understand how the salary cap works because that's just not true. A 1 year deal will represent a $12M cap hit. If they offer voidable years they can spread the cap hit over those voidable years. It is what the Bills did with Harvin. (That's where my supposed degree comes in handy). He has a few options. He can play this year at $12M and then hold out next year. He can retire next year. If he has a TERRIBLE year he can take the $6M or get cut and go back into FA. It really isn't that baffling. He is trying to be straight forward with them. He offered a 1 year $12m deal. They cant afford the cap hit. In reality he can sign their offer, which amounts to 1 year and $12M and then hold out or retire next year. He is trying to avoid the PR backlash but he CAN certainly do that if he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 It's important that we understand how the salary cap works because that's just not true. A 1 year deal will represent a $12M cap hit. If they offer voidable years they can spread the cap hit over those voidable years. It is what the Bills did with Harvin. (That's where my supposed degree comes in handy). He has a few options. He can play this year at $12M and then hold out next year. He can retire next year. If he has a TERRIBLE year he can take the $6M or get cut and go back into FA. It really isn't that baffling. He is trying to be straight forward with them. He offered a 1 year $12m deal. They cant afford the cap hit. In reality he can sign their offer, which amounts to 1 year and $12M and then hold out or retire next year. He is trying to avoid the PR backlash but he CAN certainly do that if he wants. But he isn't. That's the simple reality you're ignoring. He wants a multi-year deal at the price he wants OR a one year deal for $12M such that he's a free agent again. All you're doing is trying to fabricate a different reality and you're doing it poorly. If he were going to do any of these other things (and the list grows as you create them), he would have signed the deal they put on the table. He hasn't. He clearly has no intention to retire after just one more year in the NFL. It's obvious to anyone not completely oblivious to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 But he isn't. That's the simple reality you're ignoring. He wants a multi-year deal at the price he wants OR a one year deal for $12M such that he's a free agent again. All you're doing is trying to fabricate a different reality and you're doing it poorly. If he were going to do any of these other things (and the list grows as you create them), he would have signed the deal they put on the table. He hasn't. He clearly has no intention to retire after just one more year in the NFL. It's obvious to anyone not completely oblivious to reality. Obviously he wants a multi-year deal or a 1 year $12M deal. There are options to make that a reality though. The Jets are going to have to give up on the idea of Fitz at $6M in years 2-3. Maybe something like 3 years, $30M with $20M guaranteed in the first 2 years ($12M in the 1st) would get it done? The point that I am trying to make is that there are options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Obviously he wants a multi-year deal or a 1 year $12M deal. There are options to make that a reality though. The Jets are going to have to give up on the idea of Fitz at $6M in years 2-3. Maybe something like 3 years, $30M with $20M guaranteed in the first 2 years ($12M in the 1st) would get it done? The point that I am trying to make is that there are options. Well that's where we fundamentally disagree. They made an offer consistent with their cap situation and the reality that Fitzpatrick is not the quarterback of the future, beyond the next 2-3 years at the most. They've drafted a QB in 3 of the last 4 drafts in Hackenberg, Petty, and Smith. I really don't believe they're going to kill their salary cap situation by signing a bridge QB to the type of deal you think or that Fitzpatrick wants. As stated before, if the tune changes, I'll admit I was wrong. However, the lack of interest from any other team in the NFL gives the Jets all the leverage. They truly don't have to do anything other than split the reps in camp among the three QB's that are actually there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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