Gugny Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Schefter talked about it this morning on Mike & Mike. It is no closer to being resolved. I have to admit I wouldn't hate a home open against Geno Smith at night. I am going to go ahead and put a "W" next to it in permanent marker. Yeah, I think Buffalo will be a very popular suicide pool pick for that week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 My memory is poor and my eyesight worse. After the Nix phone call Fitz was pissed that he was not going to be the starter long term. Fitz left us as much as we him. lotta money left out there. bad management regardless. Even his big payday as a Bill turned sour quickly. its not you you ryan its me. well its a little bit you. It's really hard to fathom how a guy who has been serviceable for teams with no alternative keeps getting his walking papers. There has to be more to the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 It's really hard to fathom how a guy who has been serviceable for teams with no alternative keeps getting his walking papers. There has to be more to the story I think the story is an easy one and you've already said it here. He has been serviceable. That's it. Teams are not going to pay the price tag he's asking for, for a QB that is merely serviceable. Fitzpatrick is no different than any other journeyman QB's that are/were mediocre like Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton. The only difference these days is the price tag and the length of the commitment being sought by Fitzpatrick. At the end of the day, the Jets are no more likely to sign up for 3 years of mediocre QB play than the Bills signing Taylor to a long-term deal before we see what he has this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Schefter talked about it this morning on Mike & Mike. It is no closer to being resolved. I have to admit I wouldn't hate a home open against Geno Smith at night. I am going to go ahead and put a "W" next to it in permanent marker. It should be a "W" either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) It should be a "W" either way. Agreed but it probably goes from about a 3 point spread with Fitz to a 6-6.5 point spread with Geno. Geno is terrible at football. Edited June 13, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 It's really hard to fathom how a guy who has been serviceable for teams with no alternative keeps getting his walking papers. There has to be more to the story You are over-analyzing the situation. Being a serviceable qb is a fair description of him. He has been on the move from franchise to franchise not because he is coveted but because he is not so coveted. The value and cost for mediocrity has a low ceiling. As far as I am concerned the Jets have been more than fair (if not too generous) with their offer. Fitz is an economics major from Harvard. The market has spoken with its silence. Eventually this very smart person will figure out what his actual worth is. The Jets are doing him a favor with their offer. If he doesn't understand that reality he will soon be in a less physical field of endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 You are over-analyzing the situation. Being a serviceable qb is a fair description of him. He has been on the move from franchise to franchise not because he is coveted but because he is not so coveted. The value and cost for mediocrity has a low ceiling. As far as I am concerned the Jets have been more than fair (if not too generous) with their offer. Fitz is an economics major from Harvard. The market has spoken with its silence. Eventually this very smart person will figure out what his actual worth is. The Jets are doing him a favor with their offer. If he doesn't understand that reality he will soon be in a less physical field of endeavor. We keep going round and round on this but this is the point of the disagreement. The market in the NFL says that offer is not commensurate with the production. That is why there is no deal. I will use a separate example. If a Maserati GranTurismo is priced between $132K-$165K that is the market. If there is one of them left on the market it does not mean that it is now worth $75K. In this example think of Fitz as the car dealer. The Jets are going to get a bargain for sure but they are not going to pay 50-60% of the going rate. He will sit out if that is the case. Fitz is in no way a Maserati but he is absolutely a Sam Bradford or a Colin Kaepernick or a Nick Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 You are over-analyzing the situation. Being a serviceable qb is a fair description of him. He has been on the move from franchise to franchise not because he is coveted but because he is not so coveted. The value and cost for mediocrity has a low ceiling. As far as I am concerned the Jets have been more than fair (if not too generous) with their offer. Fitz is an economics major from Harvard. The market has spoken with its silence. Eventually this very smart person will figure out what his actual worth is. The Jets are doing him a favor with their offer. If he doesn't understand that reality he will soon be in a less physical field of endeavor. Starting in 2017 for 6 million isn't a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 We keep going round and round on this but this is the point of the disagreement. The market in the NFL says that offer is not commensurate with the production. That is why there is no deal. I will use a separate example. If a Maserati GranTurismo is priced between $132K-$165K that is the market. If there is one of them left on the market it does not mean that it is now worth $75K. In this example think of Fitz as the car dealer. The Jets are going to get a bargain for sure but they are not going to pay 50-60% of the going rate. He will sit out if that is the case. Fitz is in no way a Maserati but he is absolutely a Sam Bradford or a Colin Kaepernick or a Nick Foles. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. The mistake that you and many others are making in reviewing this matter is that you are too stuck on his stats from last year, which admittedly are respectable. But that is not how I see it. I'm looking at his career numbers and performances and consider those less than impressive numbers more representative of his middling talent level. The Kaepernick, Bradford or Foles comparison are illustrative. They are all examples of qbs who are over-paid relative to productivity. What each has in common is that they have under performed after receiving excessive contracts. That is what the Jets want to avoid! There is a reason why Fitz has played for a half dozen teams and was constantly on the move. I can assure you it was not because he was coveted by any of the teams he played for. Fitz is an acceptable backup who happened to start. The Jets and the rest of the league recognize that reality. The Jets are not only being more than reasonable with their contract offer to him but they are being smart about it. As I have said before to you don't overly concern yourself with what my entrenched position is on this matter. Observe what the Jets are doing and how they are responding. That is a good indication of how much they value him as a player. Apparently it isn't too high. Starting in 2017 for 6 million isn't a favor. For a qb with only backup talent that no other team is interested in it certainly is reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. The mistake that you and many others are making in reviewing this matter is that you are too stuck on his stats from last year, which admittedly are respectable. But that is not how I see it. I'm looking at his career numbers and performances and consider those less than impressive numbers more representative of his middling talent level. The Kaepernick, Bradford or Foles comparison are illustrative. They are all examples of qbs who are over-paid relative to productivity. What each has in common is that they have under performed after receiving excessive contracts. That is what the Jets want to avoid! There is a reason why Fitz has played for a half dozen teams and was constantly on the move. I can assure you it was not because he was coveted by any of the teams he played for. Fitz is an acceptable backup who happened to start. The Jets and the rest of the league recognize that reality. The Jets are not only being more than reasonable with their contract offer to him but they are being smart about it. As I have said before to you don't overly concern yourself with what my entrenched position is on this matter. Observe what the Jets are doing and how they are responding. That is a good indication of how much they value him as a player. Apparently it isn't too high. He threw for 3,905 yards and 31 TDs in the current system, with the current players. Why are we supposed to not take that year into account? The level that he produced in that environment is surely more relevant than what he did 3 years ago with different coaches and different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) He threw for 3,905 yards and 31 TDs in the current system, with the current players. Why are we supposed to not take that year into account? The level that he produced in that environment is surely more relevant than what he did 3 years ago with different coaches and different players. Fitz has been in the league for about a decade. What you consider to be his standard (baseline) I consider to be an aberration. That is how the Jet front office is looking at it. Go back and watch Fitz's performance in Buffalo that knocked his team out of the playoffs. Fitz played like the Fitz that we are all acquainted with. That was the last impression that the Jets' brain trust had of Fitz. After seeing that dispiriting game the offer that was given to Fitz was more than generous. Edited June 13, 2016 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Agreed but it probably goes from about a 3 point spread with Fitz to a 6-6.5 point spread with Geno. Geno is terrible at football. Geno was very good in college. What happened to him? Will he be a late bloomer or is he simply not good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 He threw for 3,905 yards and 31 TDs in the current system, with the current players. Why are we supposed to not take that year into account? The level that he produced in that environment is surely more relevant than what he did 3 years ago with different coaches and different players. You are wasting your time....he simply cannot answer these simple questions. He can only endlessly repeat his inane responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Geno was very good in college. What happened to him? Will he be a late bloomer or is he simply not good enough? For like 8 games. Then he nose dived, displayed a bad attitude and proceeded to show he cant read a defense to save his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. The mistake that you and many others are making in reviewing this matter is that you are too stuck on his stats from last year, which admittedly are respectable. But that is not how I see it. I'm looking at his career numbers and performances and consider those less than impressive numbers more representative of his middling talent level. The Kaepernick, Bradford or Foles comparison are illustrative. They are all examples of qbs who are over-paid relative to productivity. What each has in common is that they have under performed after receiving excessive contracts. That is what the Jets want to avoid! There is a reason why Fitz has played for a half dozen teams and was constantly on the move. I can assure you it was not because he was coveted by any of the teams he played for. Fitz is an acceptable backup who happened to start. The Jets and the rest of the league recognize that reality. The Jets are not only being more than reasonable with their contract offer to him but they are being smart about it. As I have said before to you don't overly concern yourself with what my entrenched position is on this matter. Observe what the Jets are doing and how they are responding. That is a good indication of how much they value him as a player. Apparently it isn't too high. For a qb with only backup talent that no other team is interested in it certainly is reasonable. But he would not be The back up ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 You are wasting your time....he simply cannot answer these simple questions. He can only endlessly repeat his inane responses. Yeah , cause nobody else does that around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 But he would not be The back up ! He has backup talent and should be paid accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 He has backup talent and should be paid accordingly. Is that truly fair thinking ? I mostly agree with his skill level. But he and Chan improve each other. And you pay a guy to lead the Team. If he IS the starter he is the The Captain of the Offense. Thats what you are paying him for. Some keep talking about Jets Bills game. That was not the norm for that team. We can value him all over the place if we try. Jets are up a crick in my opinion. I understand it. but it was poorly played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 You are wasting your time....he simply cannot answer these simple questions. He can only endlessly repeat his inane responses. I'm sure that you are aware that the Jets have staked out a position predicated on their assessment of a qb that they are not too enthralled with as demonstrated by the scale of the offer they are making to their Harvard educated qb. As it stands is the Jets are not involved in any negotiations. They have not budged from their offer. You act as if the Jets should be worried about losing a qb that no other team is interested in. By their actions they are not too concerned about the possibility of losing him. What you consider to be my inane responses are the same responses that the Jets are making. WEO, you may think you are the authority on this issue but unsurprisingly the actual authority is not buying what you are selling. The bottom line is that the price tage for mediocrity is not too high. Even the stolid Buddy Nix understood that basic concerpt. That is a basic concept that you have trouble grasping. Try harder, I'm sure you can figure this relatively simple issue out. If you can't let me simply it for you: It is the relationship of talent to payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Is that truly fair thinking ? I mostly agree with his skill level. But he and Chan improve each other. And you pay a guy to lead the Team. If he IS the starter he is the The Captain of the Offense. Thats what you are paying him for. Some keep talking about Jets Bills game. That was not the norm for that team. We can value him all over the place if we try. Jets are up a crick in my opinion. I understand it. but it was poorly played It doesn't matter how we value him. What counts is how the Jets value him. They have demonstrated their assessment of him through their contract offer. What more needs to be said? People act as if the Jets haven't thought this issue through. Nothing is further from the truth. For all organizations the issue of who your starting qb is going to be and the salary that he is going to draw are priority decisions. The Jets have made a judgment and so far they are adhering to it. Do you really believe that if they thought that Fitz was a legitimate starting qb that they would be so rigid in their stance? Fitz is an adequate backup qb at best. The offer the Jets have made is more than fair. Let's get real here---even Nix told him to take a hike when he wasn't willing to take a pay cut. What does that tell you about his value????> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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