YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 YOLO passes? That must mean he just throws and throws and throws hoping for a catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Bill B hasn't done squat in the NFL w/o Brady. He SUCKED with Bledsoe. 5-13 with essentially the same team that Brady took to the playoffs. I don't even credit Belicheat with knowing that Brady was better. If he had known he would have tossed that bum and put in Brady w/o having had his hand forced. He's just lucky that Bledsoe had that injury or Brady probably would have been playing for some other team long ago like most of their backups that come in for one contract and never get resigned. Weird. I thought he did pretty well as a DC with the Giants. Again ... a bunch of Jello pudding pops. Belicheck is the best coach ever and Brady is the best QB ever. Had they done it in Buffalo, you'd all agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Bill B. is a sub .500 coach without Brady. Agree, right now they are. Their roster simply isn't very good, on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 All I know is that he last played for an FCS school, Eastern Illinois. Heaving 7 TDs against teams like Illinois St. doesn't matter. He played against third-rate opponents there, the kinds of teams that are in week one for good FBS schools as warmup games. His best four games there were against Illinois St., Northern Illinois, Tennessee-Martin, and Appalachian St. Big deal. That was about half of his 53 TD total that season. He's completely unproven in the NFL, has an average D to help him, no significant support in the running game, receivers that are probably only as good as they are because they play with Brady, Amendola being a prime example. Even then, their receivers are average at best besides Gronk. Gronk isn't enough to carry a team that won five games by 7 points last season to victory w/ Garoppolo under center behind a dicey OL. Point taken, but my angle is that they had the easiest, truly, the 32nd ranked, schedule in the league that year. If Belichick were all that he should have been able to do a little bit more than the Fins with Pennington, the Jets with a washed up Favre, or us with Edwards than he did. I mean do you really think that any of those teams were better than the Pats with Cassel? Remember, Cassel's put together one other much better season with the Chiefs too. The Pats had the best scoring D in the AFCE, the most points scored too, against lesser teams in the AFCE, with the easiest schedule in the league, and still couldn't prevent the Fins from winning the division. The Fins who were 1-15 the season prior and 7-9 the season following. Still think that's impressive? I don't. What it says to me is that if the Pats had had a middle-of-the-road schedule they may have been 6-10 or 7-9 and any talk of who is more important, Brady or Belicheat, would have been ended after that season. Anyway, I think we're going to see that in September this season. I think that discussion is going to rear its head in NFL circles. Eastern Illinois basically ran the JV version of the Baylor offense. He's Bryce Petty but against weaker competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Weird. I thought he did pretty well as a DC with the Giants. Again ... a bunch of Jello pudding pops. Belicheck is the best coach ever and Brady is the best QB ever. Had they done it in Buffalo, you'd all agree. Sorry, should have qualified that better, I meant as a HEAD coach. Argue that one. Eastern Illinois basically ran the JV version of the Baylor offense. He's Bryce Petty but against weaker competition. I don't care if they ran a pro-style offense or a run-n-shoot, the speed of the game at that level is vastly different than it is at the FBS level. You've sat through an FBS game somewhere no doubt, you can see it. They're just not as fast. Given the difference between the FBS game and the NFL as the players state it, that's a huge wall for him to climb. Again, if he does it in these first four games it'll literally be a miracle. Also, he's 6'2", 225 or so, he's hardly a physical specimen. I don't see it. I see Jay Cutler-esque play coming from JP at best. If that happens they'll be lucky to win 1 game those first four. Maybe that'll shut up obnoxious Pats fans for a while then. I have no trouble envisioning that JP may be among the bottom five QBs after four games. BTW, I don't think Petty's going to do anything in the NFL as a starter ever either. Edited July 13, 2016 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Maybe Jacoby Brissett will win the job? Manziel is still available/alive ... Edited July 13, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Sorry, should have qualified that better, I meant as a HEAD coach. Argue that one. Yes, his first stint as a HC with the Cleveland Browns at the end of Kosar's career, followed by (I believe) Tomczak, then Testaverde wasn't great. Although he managed to go to the playoffs in his third season as HC. But yeah ... let's judge him on that and that, alone. Seems reasonable. We can just ignore his accomplishments with the Patriots because he had a great QB. Marv Levy will see you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Maybe Jacoby Brissett will win the job? Manziel is still available/alive ... LOL Even better. Let's not laugh too hard tho, I can see BB signing Fitzpatrick in the ultimate slap-in-the-face to the Jets. The Pats might be able to go 3-1/4-0 w/ Fitz. All they need is slightly above average QB play in three games along with a solid all-around effort otherwise. Not sure that they have the roster for that solid all-around effort, but if so, Fitz would be a great fit. Yes, his first stint as a HC with the Cleveland Browns at the end of Kosar's career, followed by (I believe) Tomczak, then Testaverde wasn't great. Although he managed to go to the playoffs in his third season as HC. But yeah ... let's judge him on that and that, alone. Seems reasonable. We can just ignore his accomplishments with the Patriots because he had a great QB. Marv Levy will see you now. Testeverde wasn't great, so how did Billick get a 33/16 season from him the very next season? I noticed that you leap-frogged Belicheat's 5-13 record w/ Bledsoe too. Seriously, you're defending BB's record apart from Brady. I think I've seen everything here now. Edited July 13, 2016 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 LOL Even better. Let's not laugh too hard tho, I can see BB signing Fitzpatrick in the ultimate slap-in-the-face to the Jets. The Pats might be able to go 3-1/4-0 w/ Fitz. All they need is slightly above average QB play in three games along with a solid all-around effort otherwise. Not sure that they have the roster for that solid all-around effort, but if so, Fitz would be a great fit. Testeverde wasn't great, so how did Billick get a 33/16 season from him the very next season? I noticed that you leap-frogged Belicheat's 5-13 record w/ Bledsoe too. Seriously, you're defending BB's record apart from Brady. I think I've seen everything here now. Seriously, you're ignoring Belichek's record with Brady? Attributing all of that team's success to one QB while ignoring how the makeup and approach of that team has changed so much over the past 15 years? I think I've just seen, well, more of the same from you. Is Tom Brady responsible for the evolution in NE's attack from a heavy screen and run game, dominate the TOP approach that won 3 super bowls in the early 2000s to the air it out offensive attack that set passing records with Moss and Welker to the Gronk and Hernandez two TE attack which caught defenses totally unprepared, to the lightning fast, quick pass and timing offense they run now? How can you completely discount Belichek's role in developing Brady and producing a dynasty in New England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Seriously, you're ignoring Belichek's record with Brady? Attributing all of that team's success to one QB while ignoring how the makeup and approach of that team has changed so much over the past 15 years? I think I've just seen, well, more of the same from you. Is Tom Brady responsible for the evolution in NE's attack from a heavy screen and run game, dominate the TOP approach that won 3 super bowls in the early 2000s to the air it out offensive attack that set passing records with Moss and Welker to the Gronk and Hernandez two TE attack which caught defenses totally unprepared, to the lightning fast, quick pass and timing offense they run now? How can you completely discount Belichek's role in developing Brady and producing a dynasty in New England? First of all, get the context of the argument/discussion before diving in with both feet. You're off here. I'll engage anyway. Well, that's the question, did Belichick develop Brady or was Brady going to be good regardless. Since Belichick had no track record whatsoever of developing QBs, and since everyone that knows anything about football agrees that his prowess isn't offensive, rather defensive, I'll side with the notion that Brady was more responsible for developing himself along with perhaps an OC/QB Coach or two in a more limited manner. Otherwise, fine, if you and Gugny think that a head coach with a 52-62 record with one miserable playoff appearance featuring the 1st-ranked D, apart from having Brady is even average, great. To me that's not good and on par with what has gotten numerous of our coaches fired over the last 15 years or so. Not sure what to say. I can imagine your takes on how good our team is tho, you're probably one of those thinking that we're on the cusp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Well you do bring up a good point in that one highly motivated person will be Bill B to prove everyone that he is the man thta makes everything go here, not Brady! Bill B. is a sub .500 coach without Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Well you do bring up a good point in that one highly motivated person will be Bill B to prove everyone that he is the man thta makes everything go here, not Brady! Agreed The first four games, assuming that JP starts, will tell much. If the Pats go 1-3 and struggle offensively, that talk I'm guessing will start around the league. Maybe not in NE, but elsewhere. Also, we have to remember, we have no idea to what extent he cheated to win those SBs, and we all know that the Pats were lucky to advance out of the divisional round in 2001 in that game against the Raiders, the "tuck rule" game. The Pats should never have even been in that SB. After that, 11 seasons in the weakest division in football, as the preseason SB favorites every single season, with arguably the best QB in NFL history, they have one SB win. All because when Brady gets shut down in the playoffs BB has no answers. To me it's pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Agree, right now they are. Their roster simply isn't very good, on either side. Career record without Brady is sub .500, I don't agree that they aren't talented enough to win the division even without Brady. If Lewis and Edelman come back healthy that will give them an abundance of options. You may not like them, but all those options play above their talent level because of rub routes, scheme and the NFL rules on defensive contact. Every snap they let 4 or 5 little rabbits out of a hat and one of them is bound to be open for a short pass and some YAC. They also acquired Bennet who gives them a nice two TE set to soften the blow with Jimmy G. operating in the redzone. Their defense has enough talent and should be good at stopping the run which will help them in divisional games. Collins, Hightower, McCourty, Butler are all above average players. Malcolm Brown was coming into his own as a rookie at the end of last year as well. Their weakness will probably be their pass rush but outside of Arizona none of the other 3 teams will beat them through the air. The Bills vs. Pats game will be a pick em if both teams are relatively healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I thought that I was winning until he pointed to this obnoxiously large poster of his Super Bowl ring (he only won one when playing there). I'm thinking of buying an equally, obnoxiously large, poster of the David Tyree catch and hanging it in his office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Career record without Brady is sub .500, I don't agree that they aren't talented enough to win the division even without Brady. If Lewis and Edelman come back healthy that will give them an abundance of options. You may not like them, but all those options play above their talent level because of rub routes, scheme and the NFL rules on defensive contact. Every snap they let 4 or 5 little rabbits out of a hat and one of them is bound to be open for a short pass and some YAC. They also acquired Bennet who gives them a nice two TE set to soften the blow with Jimmy G. operating in the redzone. Their defense has enough talent and should be good at stopping the run which will help them in divisional games. Collins, Hightower, McCourty, Butler are all above average players. Malcolm Brown was coming into his own as a rookie at the end of last year as well. Their weakness will probably be their pass rush but outside of Arizona none of the other 3 teams will beat them through the air. The Bills vs. Pats game will be a pick em if both teams are relatively healthy. They have some above average players no doubt, but few ringers besides Gronk. Also, IMO you underestimate the impact that Brady has apart from merely throwing the ball and calling the plays. Edelman is good but hardly great. Watkins is better and look at us. Taylor will play better than JP in every likelihood too. Tannehill will likely even play better. Did you mean Dion Lewis? I don't see why he'll be a huge factor. Hasn't been so far. If you take their roster and match it up to other teams, I think you'll find that it's a pretty average roster. We're so used to Brady overachieving that it seems to be better than it is. I mean put Tannehill on the Pats instead of Brady and what do you see? Many teams have talented players. We have them. In fact Dareus, Glenn, Wood, Incognito, Darby and Gilmore are all better than their counterparts in NE IMO. Yet ... McCoy's better than any of their RBs too. Anyway, here's their depth chart, check it out, do you really see a serious contender w/o Brady? I see a .500 team +/- a game or two depending upon a variety of circumstances. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/depth-chart/NE/new-england-patriots They'll win the division because Brady's only out for four games and otherwise because it's unlikely that any of the other three teams steps it up enough to win it. What, Geno Smith and Tannehill? Not seeing it. We have Taylor but too many other shortcomings despite what talented players we have. So once again the Pats are fortunate to be in the AFCE and not pretty much any other division. Edited July 13, 2016 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I thought that I was winning until he pointed to this obnoxiously large poster of his Super Bowl ring (he only won one when playing there). I'm thinking of buying an equally, obnoxiously large, poster of the David Tyree catch and hanging it in his office. Please, please do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Well I have just read the last few pages from today, and a few of you are a little snarky today. No worries, but I believe we can hang with a Brady less team. That doesn't mean I expect us to win. That's silly. We have a talented team and Rex is pretty good against rookie QB's. In effect he's a rookie carrying a clip board for three years just like we should look at TT as a rookie last year. I can't predict a record for these games, but I wouldn't be surprised with 1-3 or 2-2. 0-4 is a real stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) While all you pansies are shaking in your BVDs, I'm going on the record...we will kill the Pats week 4....assuming Bill Belichick doesn't go full cheat mode. Edited July 14, 2016 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 While all you pansies are shaking in your BVDs, I'm going on the record...we will kill the Pats week 4....assuming Bill Belichick doesn't go full cheat mode. why would you assume that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Bill B. is a sub .500 coach without Brady. So was Marv without Kelly. So was Walsh without Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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