Love 2% of Cap Tyrod, like 10% Tyrod, don't like 15% Tyrod

[PlayoffsPlease]

The NFL isn't fantasy football, but judging players must be done in the context of their cap hit.

 

Taylors cap hit in 2016 is 2% of the top 51 number. The highest cap hit in the league is Brees at 20% (or 30 million)

Brees is a great QB. Saints have been a non-factor since Brees signed his latest contract. At 20% of cap, the Saints have a a great QB but an awful QB situation.

 

If Tyrod puts up the same numbers as last year for 2% of cap, the Bills have a huge edge at the QB position over most of the league. Failure to make the playoffs with that advantage means Whaley can't put together a team. It will never be easier than 2016.

 

Lions, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons are all teams with very good QBs and pretty much terrible QB situations because they can't put together a winning team around their 20 million QB.

 

Taylor isn't going to be signed for less than 10% of the cap if he is performing at 2015 levels (15 million). Honestly I have my doubts about Whaley's ability to assemble a playoff team with a 15 million cap hit. But if Taylor is pushed to the 15% of cap level ($22.5 mm), based on Whaleys/Ryans history, I think we can expect to see the same extended playoff success that the Lions, Falcons and Cowboys have had the last several years.

 

I want a "franchise" QB very much. But the gap between Brady and Rodgers and Stafford and Ryan, in terms of performance is much much much much greater than the difference in salaries. I don't want the Bills to finally get their franchise QB, only to end up in the "Matt"Trap

 

 

[John from Riverside]

The bottom line is TT must be given the opportunity to show that he can carry this team with his arm in some games........its pretty much the last thing on his laundry list to the nay sayers

 

- They said he cant throw over the middle......he proved people wrong

- They said he couldnt throw from the pocket.....he proved people wrong there to

 

it took some time....but by the end of the year he was doing it.

 

Next up

 

- Keeping Sammy Watkins involved for entire games and not just great halfs

- Better 3rd down percentage

[NorthBuffaloKid]

The bottom line is TT must be given the opportunity to show that he can carry this team with his arm in some games........its pretty much the last thing on his laundry list to the nay sayers

 

- They said he cant throw over the middle......he proved people wrong

- They said he couldnt throw from the pocket.....he proved people wrong there to

 

it took some time....but by the end of the year he was doing it.

 

Next up

 

- Keeping Sammy Watkins involved for entire games and not just great halfs

- Better 3rd down percentage

 

Well said! If he could speed up his delivery, it would help. A few screen plays would loosen things up at the line to help Taylor and whoever is lugging the rock.

[KDIGGZ]

You are right. We should be in the playoffs. Rex destroyed the defense and now we have the wrong personnel. Additionally, we have the worst cap situation in the league and can't afford to add the right personnel. We didn't get enough production from our highest paid players last year and now we are in a tough situation where we are going to have to pay Tyrod after this year so it's not going to get any better. Having to change the defense really hurt us and now we probably missed our window of opportunity to take advantage of our "cheap" QB

[Gugny]

The bottom line is TT must be given the opportunity to show that he can carry this team with his arm in some games........its pretty much the last thing on his laundry list to the nay sayers

 

- They said he cant throw over the middle......he proved people wrong

- They said he couldnt throw from the pocket.....he proved people wrong there to

 

it took some time....but by the end of the year he was doing it.

 

Next up

 

- Keeping Sammy Watkins involved for entire games and not just great halfs

- Better 3rd down percentage

 

He was inconsistent over the middle, at best.

Completing 1 yard passes from the pocket didn't exactly prove much.

 

Save the "injuries" argument. Every QB deals with that.

Save the "first year starter" argument. Big deal. He's been in the league for five years.

 

There is one very good reason that Roman is so reluctant to "open it up." Because Roman knows what he's got in Taylor, which isn't much.

 

His good stats were fluff stats that resulted in moving the ball and scoring at insignificant times of the games. Hence the crappy record.

 

You want a bottom line? The bottom line is that Tyrod Taylor gets hype because he completes the occasional bomb that, unless it's caught in the end zone, usually leads to a FG attempt. He can't read a defense. He can't play with a shortened field. He can't consistently find/hit receivers over the middle. And once defenses consistently take the sidelines away from him, this offense will be a nightmare. It was proven as the season went on. It's an easy blueprint.

[John from Riverside]

 

He was inconsistent over the middle, at best.

Completing 1 yard passes from the pocket didn't exactly prove much.

 

Save the "injuries" argument. Every QB deals with that.

Save the "first year starter" argument. Big deal. He's been in the league for five years.

 

There is one very good reason that Roman is so reluctant to "open it up." Because Roman knows what he's got in Taylor, which isn't much.

 

His good stats were fluff stats that resulted in moving the ball and scoring at insignificant times of the games. Hence the crappy record.

 

You want a bottom line? The bottom line is that Tyrod Taylor gets hype because he completes the occasional bomb that, unless it's caught in the end zone, usually leads to a FG attempt. He can't read a defense. He can't play with a shortened field. He can't consistently find/hit receivers over the middle. And once defenses consistently take the sidelines away from him, this offense will be a nightmare. It was proven as the season went on. It's an easy blueprint.

We all know how you feel Gug.....no amount of debating is gonna move you off that perch......regardless of when Tyrod would have games last year that should have

[machine gun kelly]

It's more of continuity. I'd like to see a lot more quick release passes over the middle, acting decisive. A full season not getting hurt. If he can do that for 30 regular season games showing synergy with his WR, then yes he deserves to get paid and we have a franchise QB.

 

I think Whaley is making an excellent decision unlike when we paid Fitzy too early. Besides we don't have any money anyway. When we see 2 solid years we have a nice body of work to feel comfortable he is worth 16-18 mil. If he bombs or gets hurt again, we know we have to keep looking.

 

Lastly, I've seen more college visits to QB's than awhile. Whoever suggested possibly Hogan as a developmental QB, had a great idea and we probably get him in the 3rd or 4th round.

[John from Riverside]

 

Well said! If he could speed up his delivery, it would help. A few screen plays would loosen things up at the line to help Taylor and whoever is lugging the rock.

You know that is a interesting point

 

It did seem like Tyrod had a slow delivery.....but it didnt seem like teams were able to exploit that.

 

It also seemed at times that he didnt "see the field"

 

I have no problem with the bills making Tyrod wait for this next contract......there are things that we need to see from him.

It's more of continuity. I'd like to see a lot more quick release passes over the middle, acting decisive. A full season not getting hurt. If he can do that for 30 regular season games showing synergy with his WR, then yes he deserves to get paid and we have a franchise QB.

 

I think Whaley is making an excellent decision unlike when we paid Fitzy too early. Besides we don't have any money anyway. When we see 2 solid years we have a nice body of work to feel comfortable he is worth 16-18 mil. If he bombs or gets hurt again, we know we have to keep looking.

 

Lastly, I've seen more college visits to QB's than awhile. Whoever suggested possibly Hogan as a developmental QB, had a great idea and we probably get him in the 3rd or 4th round.

I bet we can get Hogan later that in the draft.

[PromoTheRobot]

The #1 reason people don't buy into TT is he's the Bills QB. Plain and simple. We hate our own players. If TT had the same season with another team and was a free agent, he'd be touted as a must-sign free agent. But once he signed, then we'd hate him. It's how we roll.

Edited March 30, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[John from Riverside]

The #1 reason people don't buy into TT is he's the Bills QB. Plain and simple. We hate our own players. If TT had the same season with another team and was a free agent, he'd be touted as a must-sign free agent. But once he signed, then we'd hate him. It's how we roll.

The grass is always greener....I think that is every teams fans though

 

I really felt we should have been in the playoffs last year....that definately was not Tyrods fault

[yungmack]

 

He was inconsistent over the middle, at best.

Completing 1 yard passes from the pocket didn't exactly prove much.

 

Save the "injuries" argument. Every QB deals with that.

Save the "first year starter" argument. Big deal. He's been in the league for five years.

 

There is one very good reason that Roman is so reluctant to "open it up." Because Roman knows what he's got in Taylor, which isn't much.

 

His good stats were fluff stats that resulted in moving the ball and scoring at insignificant times of the games. Hence the crappy record.

 

You want a bottom line? The bottom line is that Tyrod Taylor gets hype because he completes the occasional bomb that, unless it's caught in the end zone, usually leads to a FG attempt. He can't read a defense. He can't play with a shortened field. He can't consistently find/hit receivers over the middle. And once defenses consistently take the sidelines away from him, this offense will be a nightmare. It was proven as the season went on. It's an easy blueprint.

I believe many fans of a specific team suffer from "over focus." They watch everything about their team, keep up with what's going on, and in general know a great deal about their faves. However, relatively few fans devote much serious attention to other teams and form their opinions based largely upon the random highlights that show up in the media, or because their team plays them. This leads to a syndrome well-known around here where our guys are often seen as lacking this or that ability while a similar player from another team is over-valued in our opinions. The "grass is always greener" thing.

 

Now, I don't mean to sound like a smart ass but I wonder if you watch the other QBs in this league with the attention to detail over the length of the entire season that you appear to give to TT Because I believe if you did that you'd find he is much better than many of them. Does he have flaws and are there areas for improvement? Absolutely. But then, can you name a single QB that can't be said about? For myself, I'd rather have Tyrod than about 25 of the other QBs in the league, and out of the other 7, at least 4 of them are aging out anyway.

[Manther]

The NFL isn't fantasy football, but judging players must be done in the context of their cap hit.

 

Taylors cap hit in 2016 is 2% of the top 51 number. The highest cap hit in the league is Brees at 20% (or 30 million)

Brees is a great QB. Saints have been a non-factor since Brees signed his latest contract. At 20% of cap, the Saints have a a great QB but an awful QB situation.

 

If Tyrod puts up the same numbers as last year for 2% of cap, the Bills have a huge edge at the QB position over most of the league. Failure to make the playoffs with that advantage means Whaley can't put together a team. It will never be easier than 2016.

 

Lions, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons are all teams with very good QBs and pretty much terrible QB situations because they can't put together a winning team around their 20 million QB.

 

Taylor isn't going to be signed for less than 10% of the cap if he is performing at 2015 levels (15 million). Honestly I have my doubts about Whaley's ability to assemble a playoff team with a 15 million cap hit. But if Taylor is pushed to the 15% of cap level ($22.5 mm), based on Whaleys/Ryans history, I think we can expect to see the same extended playoff success that the Lions, Falcons and Cowboys have had the last several years.

 

I want a "franchise" QB very much. But the gap between Brady and Rodgers and Stafford and Ryan, in terms of performance is much much much much greater than the difference in salaries. I don't want the Bills to finally get their franchise QB, only to end up in the "Matt"Trap

 

 

You can blame or Rex. Nothing has changed. You can use numbers and percentages, but, the basic argument is the same.

 

However, if Whaley picked Rex you can surely blame him.

[ddaryl]

The #1 reason people don't buy into TT is he's the Bills QB. Plain and simple. We hate our own players. If TT had the same season with another team and was a free agent, he'd be touted as a must-sign free agent. But once he signed, then we'd hate him. It's how we roll.

 

this quote is completely ABSURD.

 

1st of all TT is NOT A FA... If he was someone would probbaly sign him for bigger money but he is not a FA and therefore the point is completely moot.

 

You don't hand out huge contracts to any player who had 1 average year at best at his position, that is a recipe for huge regret and huge franchise crippling salary problems going forward. Especially given the fact he is under contract for another year and we can franchise him if need be the next year. We hold all the cards here

 

TT is under contract received an option to opt out of a 3rd year and gets some performance raises from his 1st year going into the 2nd year. TT is doing quite well and will have an opportunity to get a solid payday, and all it will take is improvement from his 1st year as a Bill.

 

I fail to see why being smart and not handing out a contract after 1 year is somehow a negative. I see this as a HUGE positive for this franchise learning from its own mistakes finally

Edited March 30, 2016 by ddaryl

[Prickly Pete]

The bottom line is TT must be given the opportunity to show that he can carry this team with his arm in some games........its pretty much the last thing on his laundry list to the nay sayers

 

- They said he cant throw over the middle......he proved people wrong

- They said he couldnt throw from the pocket.....he proved people wrong there to

 

it took some time....but by the end of the year he was doing it.

 

Next up

 

- Keeping Sammy Watkins involved for entire games and not just great halfs

- Better 3rd down percentage

 

That's why they need to get another WR, one good enough to take advantage of coverage skewed to Watkins. Tyrod needs it, and he needs it THIS SEASON, because we have to know what he is capable of.

Edited March 30, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[PromoTheRobot]

The grass is always greener....I think that is every teams fans though

 

I really felt we should have been in the playoffs last year....that definately was not Tyrods fault

I have a theory why. It's because we scrutinize everything about our players. All players have some flaws but we magnify our player's flaws. Other teams players we mostly only see on highlights so all we see are great plays. So we start thinking all those players are great and all of ours suck.

 

this quote is completely ABSURD.

 

1st of all TT is NOT A FA... If he was someone would probbaly sign him for bigger money but he is not a FA and therefore the point is completely moot.

 

You don't hand out huge contracts to any player who had 1 average year at best at his position, that is a recipe for huge regret and huge franchise crippling salary problems going forward. Especially given the fact he is under contract for another year and we can franchise him if need be the next year. We hold all the cards here

 

TT is under contract received an option to opt out of a 3rd year and gets some performance raises from his 1st year going into the 2nd year. TT is doing quite well and will have an opportunity to get a solid payday, and all it will take is improvement from his 1st year as a Bill.

 

I fail to see why being smart and not handing out a contract after 1 year is somehow a negative. I see this as a HUGE positive for this franchise learning from its own mistakes finally

Let's have a poll -

 

You are the Bills GM. You have the choice to sign TT to an extension, sign Brock Osweiller to the contract he was paid by the Texans, or draft a QB at 19. Which do you do and why?

Edited March 30, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[jr1]

draft Luke Falk next year and pray to the deity of your choice

[PlayoffsPlease]

The bottom line is TT must be given the opportunity to show that he can carry this team with his arm in some games........its pretty much the last thing on his laundry list to the nay sayers

 

- They said he cant throw over the middle......he proved people wrong

- They said he couldnt throw from the pocket.....he proved people wrong there to

 

it took some time....but by the end of the year he was doing it.

 

Next up

 

- Keeping Sammy Watkins involved for entire games and not just great halfs

- Better 3rd down percentage

You don't seem to understand the original post. Your "bottom line" makes no sense. The proper question isn't whether or not another team would pay Taylor $20 mm. The proper question is "Can Whaley build a champion while paying Taylor $20 mm (or 15, or 10, or whatever the number is). Obviously Whaley couldn't put the pieces together in 2016 even with having only 3 mm of cap invested on Taylor. It doesn't get any easier than that. in the NFL. If Whaley needs to use up $20 mm of cap on Taylor, why would anyone think all of sudden he can put together a winner with 17 million to spend on the rest of the roster.

[John from Riverside]

You don't seem to understand the original post. Your "bottom line" makes no sense. The proper question isn't whether or not another team would pay Taylor $20 mm. The proper question is "Can Whaley build a champion while paying Taylor $20 mm (or 15, or 10, or whatever the number is). Obviously Whaley couldn't put the pieces together in 2016 even with having only 3 mm of cap invested on Taylor. It doesn't get any easier than that. in the NFL. If Whaley needs to use up $20 mm of cap on Taylor, why would anyone think all of sudden he can put together a winner with 17 million to spend on the rest of the roster.

I understand it just fine.

 

We found a QB

 

That QB is going now cost us between 18 to 20 million dollars a year

 

Its the Seattle scenario all over again.

[Wayne Cubed]

I have a theory why. It's because we scrutinize everything about our players. All players have some flaws but we magnify our player's flaws. Other teams players we mostly only see on highlights so all we see are great plays. So we start thinking all those players are great and all of ours suck.

Let's have a poll -

 

You are the Bills GM. You have the choice to sign TT to an extension, sign Brock Osweiller to the contract he was paid by the Texans, or draft a QB at 19. Which do you do and why?

 

Huh? That's a ridiculous poll and not even close to what the actual situation is.

 

Those aren't Doug Whaley's only options and for the life of me I don't know why you have to put down Bills fans who don't agree with your take on TTs contract situation. There are very few Bills fans who actually think TT sucks, so that is a massive exaggeration. Most want to wait and see before giving him a contract extension. This isn't because they think he sucks it's probably because:

 

1. While he had a good season statistically, there are areas he needs to improve on and he has all of 14 games to measure his game on. People want to see consistency.

2. He's not a FA. Unlike Brock Osweiler and Kirk Cousins and anyone else you want to bring up who just got paid, TTs contract is not up. He is still on a prove it contract which he signed and is beneficial to him because, as he has already done, if he hit certain escalators it would void a year of his contract meaning he would be in line for a BIG pay day sooner should he continue to play well. He knew this was the situation.

3. The Bills don't have the money to pay him this year anyways. You can kick and scream all you like about him wanting to get paid but that won't change the fact that this season the Bills do not have to cap space to pay TT more AND get depth for certain positions.

 

If TT plays at the same level he did last season with some improvement, the Bills will pay him. They'll either franchise him or work out a deal with him. They won't let him walk if he has a great season and the franchise tag won't allow him to leave.

[papazoid]

TT is a stud and will only get better with a full season of first team reps.

 

if they wait til 2017 he's going to get darn close to $20 mil/year.

 

the only hope for less would be to sign him this year by agreeing to long terms deals with both glenn and Gilmore which would free up the needed cap space.

 

 

a disaster scenario could be only able to tag one of TT, Glenn & Gilmore.

Edited March 31, 2016 by papazoid