Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Margarita said: donald trump is president of not only his supporters but also protesters and those people whom are peacefully protesting. Why you would think it would be inappropriate for he to speak to THOSE people while at the same time condemning violence and the looters/criminals in their midst. Oh really? You must have missed the past 3.5 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Warren Zevon said: I think if Trump could give an honest admission that racism is still a problem in America and offer compassion for victims of race related crimes, it would be a step to ratchet down the protests, thus diffusing removing the excuse for idiots to loot. And this is the crux of the argument from people like you. The discussion must begin with the admisssion that law enforcement agencies are so pervasively racist that Officers will literally kill people, condone the killing of people, and cover up the killing of people as long as those people are black. Nevermind that there is no actual evidence that comes close to supporting this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Oh really? You must have missed the past 3.5 years. lol that's your rationale for he not speaking to the nation now? My take is he is showing how little he cares about the people who he perceives as "not his people" and cant be bothered to address them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: And this is the crux of the argument from people like you. The discussion must begin with the admisssion that law enforcement agencies are so pervasively racist that Officers will literally kill people, condone the killing of people, and cover up the killing of people as long as those people are black. Nevermind that there is no actual evidence that comes close to supporting this. Correct. It's blackmail writ large. ADMIT WE ARE CORRECT OR WE'LL BURN IT ALL DOWN, RACIST! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 48 minutes ago, Magox said: Ryan Saavedra - big Trump supporter. This view is becoming clear with each passing hour. The growing calls from Conservatives wondering - Where the hell is Trump? - This is a complete abdication of leadership. And just to be clear, none of these people influenced my view of this. It has become increasingly clear over the past 36 hours that while the country is burning down there seems to be a vacuum in direction. He did speak this weekend, and it was a darn good speech -- it wasn't covered by anyone. And I bet he'll speak this week as well. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Margarita said: lol that's your rationale for he not speaking to the nation now? My take is he is showing how little he cares about the people who he perceives as "not his people" and cant be bothered to address them. Yeah, that would be your take from what I've seen of your other takes. "NOT MY PRESIDENT! UNTIL I SAY HE IS!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Let's have a look at Trump's options: Option A - Call in the Army and crush the riots. Response from progressives: RACIST INSENSITIVE FASCIST! HATES BLACK PEOPLE! Option B - Do nothing. Response from conservatives: WHERE'S OUR LAW AND ORDER? If you were him, what would you do? Or Option C - Have a national oval office address - where 10's of millions will watch the address - 3 main messages Empathy for the African American community Where he discusses the wrongful death of George Floyd - How that it's the fundamental right of every American to protest in peace - and that how his justice department has two open investigations on Aubrey and George Floyd and that the country demands swift justice - How he will begin his "listening tours" (which they are currently pondering) of the African American communities on how to address this situation - Address the Riots - That this is a country of laws. -- And what we are seeing now is a complete disgrace and is dishonoring the name of George Floyd - That these rioters are not the same people as the peaceful protesters and that as a society we need to be able to differentiate between the two - And that outside agitators such as ANTIFA are fomenting hate - How local and state governments have a duty to protect their community What he is doing about it - That his Justice department will investigate these agitators and find out who is funding them - How he is activating the National Guard in various parts to provide support - That the Justice Department along with the FBI will actively look to find and place additional charges on these people who have traveled interstate who are partaking in the acts of arson/looting/rioting as this would be a Federal crime - How they will classify these people as domestic terrorists. Close it with that if the local and state governments cannot protect their citizens and community that he will get the Federal government to do it. Some of these things are already in place, but most people are not aware of them. I'm watching these videos and they are horrifying. There are rumors of this growing and moving into the suburbs. Heck even in my medium sized town of Melbourne Fl, which is solidly for Trump. I've seen people protesting peacefully. But that's during the day. And I've seen rumors that there is rioting set to happen and burn down the mall. Is it true? Who knows? But there is no reason to dismiss it. My wife is on complete edge and she doesn't even watch the news that often. I watch these videos and I see chaos reigning throughout the country and it's only growing with each passing day. And when I see Trump hide out in his bunker after he just got done tweeting "LAW AND ORDER", while protesters in front of his residence are growing and attempting to burn down St Johns Church. It just reminds me that he appears to be just like the rest of us, another simple bystander tweeting words in large caps. It would do him a lot of good if he can address the things that I mentioned. 3 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: And this is the crux of the argument from people like you. The discussion must begin with the admisssion that law enforcement agencies are so pervasively racist that Officers will literally kill people, condone the killing of people, and cover up the killing of people as long as those people are black. Nevermind that there is no actual evidence that comes close to supporting this. Note - I did not say that. I think if Trump could give an honest admission that racism is still a problem in America and offer compassion for victims of race related crimes, it would be a step to ratchet down the protests, thus diffusing removing the excuse for idiots to loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: He did speak this weekend, and it was a darn good speech -- it wasn't covered by anyone. And I bet he'll speak this week as well. I saw it, it was a good speech. But it's not enough. That was 2 days ago and each night that passes is getting worse and worse. That is not nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Magox said: Or Option C - Have a national oval office address - where 10's of millions will watch the address - 3 main messages That's coming this week. Probably tomorrow night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Magox said: Or Option C - Have a national oval office address - where 10's of millions will watch the address - 3 main messages Empathy for the African American community Where he discusses the wrongful death of George Floyd - How that it's the fundamental right of every American to protest in peace - and that how his justice department has two open investigations on Aubrey and George Floyd and that the country demands swift justice - How he will begin his "listening tours" (which they are currently pondering) of the African American communities on how to address this situation - Address the Riots - That this is a country of laws. -- And what we are seeing now is a complete disgrace and is dishonoring the name of George Floyd - That these rioters are not the same people as the peaceful protesters and that as a society we need to be able to differentiate between the two - And that outside agitators such as ANTIFA are fomenting hate - How local and state governments have a duty to protect their community What he is doing about it - That his Justice department will investigate these agitators and find out who is funding them - How he is activating the National Guard in various parts to provide support - That the Justice Department along with the FBI will actively look to find and place additional charges on these people who have traveled interstate who are partaking in the acts of arson/looting/rioting as this would be a Federal crime - How they will classify these people as domestic terrorists. Close it with that if the local and state governments cannot protect their citizens and community that he will get the Federal government to do it. Some of these things are already in place, but most people are not aware of them. I'm watching these videos and they are horrifying. There are rumors of this growing and moving into the suburbs. Heck even in my medium sized town of Melbourne Fl, which is solidly for Trump. I've seen people protesting peacefully. But that's during the day. And I've seen rumors that there is rioting set to happen and burn down the mall. Is it true? Who knows? But there is no reason to dismiss it. My wife is on complete edge and she doesn't even watch the news that often. I watch these videos and I see chaos reigning throughout the country and it's only growing with each passing day. And when I see Trump hide out in his bunker after he just got done tweeting "LAW AND ORDER", while protesters in front of his residence are growing and attempting to burn down St Johns Church. It just reminds me that he appears to be just like the rest of us, another simple bystander tweeting words in large caps. It would do him a lot of good if he can address the things that I mentioned. Yes yes and yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I don't think I need to. The evidence out there in open source reporting is enough, isn't it? How could I post stuff about the racist cops and other government workers that were totally racist? I think you do. There is no evidence in open source reporting other than the statistical fact that blacks, who make up less than 13% of the population, account for approximately 24% of police killings. That is the basic fact that all that "open source reporting" is based on. If there is any thing else, please share it. If not, tell us how that statistical fact alone, without actually studying each and every case, is enough to support your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Magox said: I saw it, it was a good speech. But it's not enough. That was 2 days ago and each night that passes is getting worse and worse. That is not nearly enough. And, politically, if he spoke Sunday it wouldn't have stopped anything. It wouldn't have healed anyone. It would not have brought the riots last night to a standstill. And then all that would be used against him by the dishonest media who's stoking these fires. Timing is the ballgame right now. There are multiple planes being landed all at once. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Yeah, that would be your take from what I've seen of your other takes. "NOT MY PRESIDENT! UNTIL I SAY HE IS!" SMH ridiculous. thats right attack me and deflect on a discussion of why he hasn't spoken out during this crisis in our nation. Great leader *yeah thats sarcasm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Margarita said: SMH ridiculous. thats right attack me and deflect on a discussion of why he hasn't spoken out during this crisis in our nation. Great leader *yeah thats sarcasm* You poor thing. Always being attacked by the meanies of PPP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Warren Zevon said: Note - I did not say that. I think if Trump could give an honest admission that racism is still a problem in America and offer compassion for victims of race related crimes, it would be a step to ratchet down the protests, thus diffusing removing the excuse for idiots to loot. Everyone knows racism exists to some degree. Everyone also knows that every person in this country, regardless of race or ethnicity, harbors biases and prejudices to some degree. That is not the same as saying that police departments are systemically racist and young black men cannot walk down the street without fear of being murdered by a police officer. It is not a fine line between the two. It is a quantum leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Everyone knows racism exists to some degree. Everyone also knows that every person in this country, regardless of race or ethnicity, harbors biases and prejudices to some degree. That is not the same as saying that police departments are systemically racist and young black men cannot walk down the street without fear of being murdered by a police officer. It is not a fine line between the two. It is a quantum leap. You asked me what Trump can do. I'm not trying to make the argument (though I believe it) you are painting me into making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: You poor thing. Always being attacked by the meanies of PPP. I refuse to stoop to your level Joe. You have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 The media is fanning the flames and gaslighting all at once. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Margarita said: I refuse to stoop to your level Joe. You have a nice day. How noble of you. You're such a good person. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: And, politically, if he spoke Sunday it wouldn't have stopped anything. It wouldn't have healed anyone. It would not have brought the riots last night to a standstill. And then all that would be used against him by the dishonest media who's stoking these fires. Timing is the ballgame right now. There are multiple planes being landed all at once. I don't expect words to stop these agitators. No one's words will stop them. But it's important to communicate things to the public and try to let them know that you empathize with them and that you are doing everything possible to protect them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 EXPLAIN THIS............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, B-Man said: Yup. He got labeled as a provocateur, and "he deserved it" when the Portland branch of Antifa beat the ***** out of him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: You asked me what Trump can do. I'm not trying to make the argument (though I believe it) you are painting me into making. My point exactly. It is what you believe. Yet you can offer no proof that it is true. Unfortunately everyone in the law enforcement profession is painted with the same broad brush stroke. Kind of makes you exactly what you are railing against, don't you think? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: The media is fanning the flames and gaslighting all at once. Can you project any harder on Trumps behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just now, Magox said: I don't expect words to stop these agitators. No one's words will stop them. But it's important to communicate things to the public and try to let them know that you empathize with them and that you are doing everything possible to protect them. I agree. But that requires us having an honest and unbiased messenger service. We don't have that. Speaking too soon can even give ammunition to the enemy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: <br /> The media is fanning the flames and gaslighting all at once. Yuppers. But hey, Trump should circumvent the law and go in and stop this right now!! The press would report it fairly and honestly. Pinky-swear! Edited June 1, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: I agree. But that requires us having an honest and unbiased messenger service. We don't have that. Speaking too soon can even give ammunition to the enemy. There will never be an honest messenger in the media while Trump is president. Which is why an oval office address where his message will be clear to 10's of millions of people will be completely unfiltered. They can judge for themselves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Posting for the second video. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: My point exactly. It is what you believe. Yet you can offer no proof that it is true. Unfortunately everyone in the law enforcement profession is painted with the same broad brush stroke. Kind of makes you exactly what you are railing against, don't you think? I have the same argument as Magox yet you rail at me because I am a liberal. You are a partisan clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: I have the same argument as Magox yet you rail at me because I am a liberal. You are a partisan clown. I have no problem with Trump delivering a message of compassion or acknowledging that there are people who genuinely are distraught with what they perceive as racial injustice. So, I don't have a problem with what @Magox is saying. My argument with you is the beliefs you hold and the manner in which you want the message delivered. You believe there is systemic racism in the law enforcement profession and you believe the message of racism is not one of discussing "perceptions," but rather of stating it as "fact." That is my argument with you. You literally believe, as you previously stated, that the law enforcement profession, as a whole, is filled with people who have no problem killing people, condoning it, or covering it up, as long as those people are black. As someone who has spent the last 35+ years of my life as a law enforcement officer working in the arena of violent crime, and now as a consultant in violent crime, I have no tolerance for people like Officer Chauvin or for people like you who want to transfer his pathology onto the rest of us. Edited June 1, 2020 by billsfan1959 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: You literally believe, as you previously stated, that the law enforcement profession, as a whole, is filled with people who have no problem killing people, condoning it, or covering it up, as long as those people are black. Quote it, liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 The gaslighting is out of control. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Warren Zevon said: Quote it, liar. 30 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: You asked me what Trump can do. I'm not trying to make the argument (though I believe it) you are painting me into making. There..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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