YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 @csnne There's plenty to keep the Tom Brady camp concerned. WATCH @tomecurran discuss: http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-plenty-keep-brady-camp-concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Huh? Criminal wrongdoing in an arbitration? Fraud, collusion, bribery, blackmail... Anyway, the NFL will argue that Goodell righteously enforced article 46 of the CBA as the NFLPA agreed to. The NFLPA will argue that Goodell's decision was against precedent for ball tampering and also the "did not warn Brady he could be suspended for deflating balls" was a point (among several) that de-legitimizes the suspension. The only argument that should matter is whether or not the arbitration was legal under labor law and the CBA. Which it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 This ESPN article does a good job of summarizing the Second Circuit arguments and the highly-skeptical responses Brady's attorney got on all the key issues. http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/14896976/if-judges-questions-indication-nfl-prevail-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 They should settle this case. Every time Tom Brady's name is mentioned there is an asterisk next to it and a footnote saying Tom Brady* and the Patriots* are proven cheaters. Get it done Goodell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'm sorry but that just isn't true. The NFL or any other employer has to act within the bounds of reasonableness within its own agreed disciplinary code. If it doesn't abide by its own code or apply it in a fair or reasonable way that is a decision reviewable in a court. The issue the NFL has with the Brady judgment is given it's previous punishments for similar ball tampering events, the Chargers incident springs to mind, had not involved suspensions for players to go immediately to a 4 game ban seems a clear departure from precedent and therefore it can and was successfully argued by Brady's people that the NFL did not apply it's own procedures in a fair or reasonable way. The issue of whether Brady did or did not tamper is largely irrelevant - that is not what is before the court. Except the Chargers case, is completely different. I don't know why people keep pointing to this as if it's some smoking gun. I don't think people really understand what happened in that incident, so lets try this again. During a Monday Night game, a Chargers ball boy brought a towel onto the field to dry a ball. This is completely against normal procedure and when an official noticed the ball boy do it, he asked to see that towel. The ball boy and Chargers employees on the sidelines refused. The official thought he possibly had something illegal on the towel, like Stickum, or that the ball boy may have had something in his pocket. The NFL was notified and told the Chargers they would be investigated. The Chargers fully complied and allowed the NFL to investigate both the ball boy AND the team equipment. The NFL investigated it for 3 weeks and concluded that their was no Stickum on the towel and that the ball boy wasn't hiding stickum. They even said they could keep using the same towels for the rest of 2012. They did fine them for the ball boy not complying with the official. So, it wasn't equipment tampering. How is that at all a precedent for a NFL player, coordinating with the ball boys of their own team, to deflate their balls below the set limit by the NFL, then when questioned about it, not cooperate, lie and destroy evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 How is that at all a precedent for a NFL player, coordinating with the ball boys of their own team, to deflate their balls below the set limit by the NFL, then when questioned about it, not cooperate, lie and destroy evidence? Ok, maybe the Chargers example isn't the best... what about the Panthers warming up balls? They were found guilty of that and simply warned by the NFL. The fact that these teams complied with investigations is irrelevant because individuals franchise relationships with the NFL are not governed by the same terms as the players' relationship with the league. The disciplining of Tom Brady has to be compliant with the agreements that the NFL and the NFLPA have reached through the CBA and has to be fair and consistent with precedent. I can totally understand why the judge ruled the way he did. Without knowing all the details of the case I'm not going to give a view on what I think is or isn't the right outcome, but just on the prima facie publically available facts there is a reasonable argument to support the assertion that Goodell acted in an unreasonable and unfair manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 brady is guilty for all the bowlers out there....this is like not noticing the difference between a 15 and a 16 lb ball........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Except that they didn't overstep, they are allowed to suspend him for failure to cooperate with an investigation via the destruction of his phone. Again, you miss the point. The arbitrator did not decide to venture the suspension because Brady destroyed his phone. That was at best, a side issue that looked bad for Brady and exposed him for what he is. The issue was the arbitrator determined that Goodell did overstep his bounds in enacting the discipline. According to the arbitrator, Brady had the right to know that his actions and statements could lead to discipline. The situation certainly points to Brady being a cheater but it also exposes Goodell's outsized ego and haste to prove his power. Frankly, they were both wrong in the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Ok, maybe the Chargers example isn't the best... what about the Panthers warming up balls? They were found guilty of that and simply warned by the NFL. The fact that these teams complied with investigations is irrelevant because individuals franchise relationships with the NFL are not governed by the same terms as the players' relationship with the league. The disciplining of Tom Brady has to be compliant with the agreements that the NFL and the NFLPA have reached through the CBA and has to be fair and consistent with precedent. I can totally understand why the judge ruled the way he did. Without knowing all the details of the case I'm not going to give a view on what I think is or isn't the right outcome, but just on the prima facie publically available facts there is a reasonable argument to support the assertion that Goodell acted in an unreasonable and unfair manner. i I recall correctly, Goodell took into account that it was not the team's first offense. Even without the other cheating incidents, I believe they had already been warned about deflating the balls. I could be wrong - it's been awhile. Edited March 4, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Again, you miss the point. The arbitrator did not decide to venture the suspension because Brady destroyed his phone. That was at best, a side issue that looked bad for Brady and exposed him for what he is. The issue was the arbitrator determined that Goodell did overstep his bounds in enacting the discipline. According to the arbitrator, Brady had the right to know that his actions and statements could lead to discipline. The situation certainly points to Brady being a cheater but it also exposes Goodell's outsized ego and haste to prove his power. Frankly, they were both wrong in the situation. Actually, the phone is not a side issue Under the NFL Policy on Integrity of the Game, all NFL personnel are required to cooperate with any investigation regarding possible violations. Refusal to do so--via destruction of evidence--is punishable by fines and /or suspension. Where Goodell erred was in saying too much--had he simply said that Brady was being suspended unde the Integrity Policy for failing to cooperate and destroying evidence, the appeal would've fallen on its face. He instead got too mouthy and said Brady clearly knew about the scheme--which is most likely true, but can't really be proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Fraud, collusion, bribery, blackmail... The only argument that should matter is whether or not the arbitration was legal under labor law and the CBA. Which it is. Wow... You really are an idiot on this one. Of course arbitration is legal under the law and the CBA. The real issue at hand is whether the arbitrator carried out his responsibilities and rendered a final binding decision according to the issue he was asked to render a decision. People here are getting caught up in whether Brady us being found guilty of cheating. That is not the decision the court will weigh in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 i I recall correctly, Goodell took into account that it was not the team's first offense. Even without the other cheating incidents, I believe they had already been warned about deflating the balls. I could be wrong - it's been awhile. But he is not allowed to take that into account in punishing Brady - that is the point. He can take that into account when introducing sanctions on the team.... but not when sanctioning an individual. Where Goodell erred was in saying too much--had he simply said that Brady was being suspended unde the Integrity Policy for failing to cooperate and destroying evidence, the appeal would've fallen on its face. He instead got too mouthy and said Brady clearly knew about the scheme--which is most likely true, but can't really be proven. Without knowing the detail of the policy hard to give a definitive opinion, but this sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) ESPN: If judges' questions are any indication, NFL may win appeal http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/14896976/if-judges-questions-indication-nfl-prevail-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension Edited March 4, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Fraud, collusion, bribery, blackmail... The only argument that should matter is whether or not the arbitration was legal under labor law and the CBA. Which it is. Neither side is arguing this and it is not what the court is deciding on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 ESPN: If judges' questions are any indication, NFL may win appeal http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/14896976/if-judges-questions-indication-nfl-prevail-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 This ESPN article does a good job of summarizing the Second Circuit arguments and the highly-skeptical responses Brady's attorney got on all the key issues. http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/14896976/if-judges-questions-indication-nfl-prevail-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension Nice to see these judges seem to possess common sense and can clearly see what any other reasonable person does In their final series of questions to Kessler, the judges questioned his reliance on Brady's sworn testimony in the arbitration hearing. Parker thought Brady's explanation of what happened was "totally incredible." And Chin said there was "compelling evidence that Brady tampered with the footballs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Nice to see these judges seem to possess common sense and can clearly see what any other reasonable person does Guilt or innocence are not being decided here. The NFL already concluded Brady was guilty. The justices are limited to deciding whether the suspension was appropriate based on the CBA and NFL policy and precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) First OJ, now Tom?? Say it aint so! BREAKING NEWS: the Brady needle was found buried in Giselle's !^#/*. Sources say they found Wilforks DNA on it! Edited March 4, 2016 by Captain_Quint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Please make it so. Dear God end our torture. Karma has to exist right? On a side note what's up with a story I heard that the pats* are skirting the salary cap and paying Brady more than his contract but funneling the money into a sham business or something. Nothing would surprise me from those scumbag crooks. If you see the $$$ some of there star players sign for it would surprise you even less. the evil empire of the NFL is indeed filled with cheating shenanigans which, is why I cant count the Pats* in the best NFL dynastys other than being the best at cheating and not getting caught or weaseling their way out of being punished for cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-deflated-the-truth--and-owes-the-court-a-correction/2016/03/08/02bcae4e-e540-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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