We have the worst cap situation in the league?

[BADOLBILZ]

Kyle's roster bonus of $500k is due by 3/13 so the Bills would want to make a decision on him before then. They can't really wait to see whom they draft first. Kyle is probably creating the most interesting situation this off-season as far as I am concerned. What happens with him hinges on so many different things. Fit in defense, health, contract ($6.5M savings if released before 3/13). Think about this: Kyle's release would likely be in addition to Mario's and Bradham is unlikely to return. That would be a loss of three of the front seven players. That's huge turnover especially when you consider that at least two (and probably all three) of them were marquee players.

 

 

They could eat the $500K bonus and release him later.

 

Wouldn't be the dumbest cap move they've made.

 

I think Donahoe once paid John Holecek a $2M bonus in May then cut him in June.

 

Personally, I think KW is just a non-fit but the question is what can they get with the money they save.

 

I think McClain is a match made in heaven at ILB for RR system.

 

There are NT's and 3-4 DE's available that in theory should go pretty cheap.

[BarleyNY]

If you don't have a franchise QB you damn well better be aggressive with the cap. I'm surprised so many Bills fans are so willing to look differently at moves they once liked and moves that did help us (even if we didn't make the playoffs).

 

Totally disagree. Being overly aggressive is for SB runs when you're close. And I didn't like most of the moves that got them here.

[BarleyNY]

They could eat the $500K bonus and release him later.

 

Wouldn't be the dumbest cap move they've made.

 

I think Donahoe once paid John Holecek a $2M bonus in May then cut him in June.

 

Personally, I think KW is just a non-fit but the question is what can they get with the money they save.

 

I think McClain is a match made in heaven at ILB for RR system.

 

There are NT's and 3-4 DE's available that in theory should go pretty cheap.

Eating $500k as a hedge isn't a good move and other, worse moves don't make it any better. It's not a cap killer, but the Bills are not in position to piss away space either. Make a call and live with it.

 

Rolondo McClain may very well be a great fit. How much do you think he will cost? Ditto on those NTs and DEs? And who are they?

Edited February 29, 2016 by BarleyNY

[Rockinon]

 

 

They could eat the $500K bonus and release him later.

 

Wouldn't be the dumbest cap move they've made.

 

I think Donahoe once paid John Holecek a $2M bonus in May then cut him in June.

 

Personally, I think KW is just a non-fit but the question is what can they get with the money they save.

 

I think McClain is a match made in heaven at ILB for RR system.

 

There are NT's and 3-4 DE's available that in theory should go pretty cheap.

I agree that KW could be gone but only because this draft is so deep at DT. As far as him not fitting in this defense is ridiculous though. Kyle has consistently performed well when healthy no matter what scheme this team has run through the years. The man is a great football player. He is just getting older. That is something to consider. I would not be surprised if the Bills pick up a DT round one to replace him.

 

And yea, the money saved by releasing him could go toward other areas of need.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rockinon

[dayman]

I agree that KW could be gone but only because this draft is so deep at DT. As far as him not fitting in this defense is ridiculous though. Kyle has consistently performed well when healthy no matter what scheme this team has run through the years. The man is a great football player. He is just getting older. That is something to consider. I would not be surprised if the Bills pick up a DT round one to replace him.

 

And yea, the money saved by releasing him could go toward other areas of need.

 

IRRC, one of Kyle's best seasons was nose tackle under Pettine

[John from Riverside]

Are we really gonna have 50 million in cap space in 2017?

 

WHAT IS THE FRIGGEN PROBLEM......that gives us another 2 drafts to find more talent as well

 

Im sorry....but there has to be a way to creatively manage that

[BADOLBILZ]

Eating $500k as a hedge isn't a good move and other, worse moves don't make it any better. It's not a cap killer, but the Bills are not in position to piss away space either. Make a call and live with it.

 

Rolondo McClain may very well be a great fit. How much do you think he will cost? Ditto on those NTs and DEs? And who are they?

 

Tough to predict a salary for McClain......he is a great talent with very high football IQ but his past devalues him....but I am guessing it will take $6M-$7M per? to pry him away........that's David Harris money.

 

There are a number of options that fit at DL.........Haloti Ngata might be a good fit.........he's not as good of a player as Kyle Williams in a 4-3 but he should be cheap and can play either NT or DE and he'd bring big-game, championship experience and history in RR defense.

 

I could see a relatively extensive veteran patch job with this defense.

 

Calvin Pace and Quinton Coples are both dirt cheap possibilities that might be able to produce in RR system but have very little value elsewhere.

 

Considering Manny Lawson showing in finale I could even see Pace/Lawson/McClain/Hughes on the field at the same time.

 

The major downside of RR defense is that it's complicated.......the upside is that the front 7 can be manned with players who might not have a lot of $ value in any other scheme so they can be had for fairly cheap.

[GunnerBill]

 

Tough to predict a salary for McClain......he is a great talent with very high football IQ but his past devalues him....but I am guessing it will take $6M-$7M per? to pry him away........that's David Harris money.

 

There are a number of options that fit at DL.........Haloti Ngata might be a good fit.........he's not as good of a player as Kyle Williams in a 4-3 but he should be cheap and can play either NT or DE and he'd bring big-game, championship experience and history in RR defense.

 

I could see a relatively extensive veteran patch job with this defense.

 

Calvin Pace and Quinton Coples are both dirt cheap possibilities that might be able to produce in RR system but have very little value elsewhere.

 

Considering Manny Lawson showing in finale I could even see Pace/Lawson/McClain/Hughes on the field at the same time.

 

The major downside of RR defense is that it's complicated.......the upside is that the front 7 can be manned with players who might not have a lot of $ value in any other scheme so they can be had for fairly cheap.

 

Agree with most of that - especially Lawson. If Rex thinks him calling the defense makes for better organised and better communicated defense even given that physically he is not a perfect match inside then I can see him doing it much more often.

 

Not sure I see Ngata as an option. He has been on the decline the last couple of years and to be honest he was pretty poor every time I watched Detroit last season. In his prime he was very good and a clear Rex fit but I think he might be too far gone for them to bring in and rely on as a starter. I do think they will take a DT somewhere in the first 3 rounds that they intend to plug and play, our previous conversation about Jarran Reed not withstanding.

[BarleyNY]

Tough to predict a salary for McClain......he is a great talent with very high football IQ but his past devalues him....but I am guessing it will take $6M-$7M per? to pry him away........that's David Harris money.

 

There are a number of options that fit at DL.........Haloti Ngata might be a good fit.........he's not as good of a player as Kyle Williams in a 4-3 but he should be cheap and can play either NT or DE and he'd bring big-game, championship experience and history in RR defense.

 

I could see a relatively extensive veteran patch job with this defense.

 

Calvin Pace and Quinton Coples are both dirt cheap possibilities that might be able to produce in RR system but have very little value elsewhere.

 

Considering Manny Lawson showing in finale I could even see Pace/Lawson/McClain/Hughes on the field at the same time.

 

The major downside of RR defense is that it's complicated.......the upside is that the front 7 can be manned with players who might not have a lot of $ value in any other scheme so they can be had for fairly cheap.

Start adding up those contracts and then try to find the money for them - along with retaining or replacing Glenn and Incognito. It's just not realistic. That's really my point with where the Bills are cap-wise. Also, vets at the ends of their careers typically will sign with either the team that pays the most or gives them the best chance at a championship. Maybe the Bills can find some scheme-specific players (like released Jets) who don't have a ton of options, but there is that complicated scheme to think about too. Stopgap players might not be here long enough to even pick up the system before they're gone so you want guys that either already know it or will be here long enough to be productive after they pick it up.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Agree with most of that - especially Lawson. If Rex thinks him calling the defense makes for better organised and better communicated defense even given that physically he is not a perfect match inside then I can see him doing it much more often.

 

Not sure I see Ngata as an option. He has been on the decline the last couple of years and to be honest he was pretty poor every time I watched Detroit last season. In his prime he was very good and a clear Rex fit but I think he might be too far gone for them to bring in and rely on as a starter. I do think they will take a DT somewhere in the first 3 rounds that they intend to plug and play, our previous conversation about Jarran Reed not withstanding.

 

Yeah no doubt KW is a better player than Ngata at this point, but I don't care what anyone says, KW is an awful fit in a 2 gap front. Even if he could tie up blockers he still has to able to disengage and get lateral to get one of his short arms on RB's and I just don't see it happening regularly, especially at his age.

 

But regarding Ngata, I remember laughing at the cast of characters Rex was assembling in his first offseason with the Jets and he squeezed excellent performance out of a lot of guys who I thought were not very good.

 

Lawson is a good example. He looked like he was just about done in Cinci, just OK under Pettine and totally washed-up under Schwartz. But under RR he looked pretty good, especially in the second half of the season.

Start adding up those contracts and then try to find the money for them - along with retaining or replacing Glenn and Incognito. It's just not realistic. That's really my point with where the Bills are cap-wise. Also, vets at the ends of their careers typically will sign with either the team that pays the most or gives them the best chance at a championship. Maybe the Bills can find some scheme-specific players (like released Jets) who don't have a ton of options, but there is that complicated scheme to think about too. Stopgap players might not be here long enough to even pick up the system before they're gone so you want guys that either already know it or will be here long enough to be productive after they pick it up.

 

Aside from McClain those are all guys who might come in around $2M.......which only adds about $1M extra per player against the cap.

 

Basically, they might be able to get McClain(longer deal), Pace, Cromartie and Coples(1 year deals) for the cap space saved just by cutting KW.

 

The latter 3 might have a hard time finding ANY other team to sign them at any cost.........but might produce very well in RR scheme.

Edited February 29, 2016 by #BADOL

[GunnerBill]

 

Yeah no doubt KW is a better player than Ngata at this point, but I don't care what anyone says, KW is an awful fit in a 2 gap front. Even if he could tie up blockers he still has to able to disengage and get lateral to get one of his short arms on RB's and I just don't see it happening regularly, especially at his age.

 

But regarding Ngata, I remember laughing at the cast of characters Rex was assembling in his first offseason with the Jets and he squeezed excellent performance out of a lot of guys who I thought were not very good.

 

 

Yea - maybe Rex would revive Ngata and squeeze the last drops out.... but I have my doubts that there is anything much left there.

[BarleyNY]

Yeah no doubt KW is a better player than Ngata at this point, but I don't care what anyone says, KW is an awful fit in a 2 gap front. Even if he could tie up blockers he still has to able to disengage and get lateral to get one of his short arms on RB's and I just don't see it happening regularly, especially at his age.

 

But regarding Ngata, I remember laughing at the cast of characters Rex was assembling in his first offseason with the Jets and he squeezed excellent performance out of a lot of guys who I thought were not very good.

 

Lawson is a good example. He looked like he was just about done in Cinci, just OK under Pettine and totally washed-up under Schwartz. But under RR he looked pretty good, especially in the second half of the season.

 

 

Aside from McClain those are all guys who might come in around $2M.......which only adds about $1M extra per player against the cap.

 

Basically, they might be able to get McClain(longer deal), Pace, Cromartie and Coples(1 year deals) for the cap space saved just by cutting KW.

 

The latter 3 might have a hard time finding ANY other team to sign them at any cost.........but might produce very well in RR scheme.

I can see players like Kyle released to make room for guys who fit a 2 gap system better. It's a freaking travesty because there is a ton of attacking, 1 gap talent on the team - much of which carries big contracts. That's going to be wasted in one fashion or another. My thought on Cromarte was that Rex was just doing him a favor by bringing him in, but what if that's wrong? What if he's seeing what his price is and is considering him a replacement for McKelvin? His release frees up $3.9M. What if Cromarte would come here for something like that? That's a real possibility - and an upgrade.

 

I don't think you can get those 4 players in for Kyle's release (plus the $500k for each of the other players that roll out of the Top 51), but you probably could get them for Kyle ($6.5M) plus McKelvin ($3.9M) plus two roll off players ($500k each). That's $11.4M. Say $4M for Cromarte, $4M (1st year hit) for McClain and $3.4M for Pace and Coples. I am just spitballing those numbers. I'll need to check, but it's certainly getting feasible.

 

I don't know that the defense will be better at the end of the day though. I have no faith that it'll be better than if Schwartz was here running his scheme. But he isn't here, Rex is - and it might be better than it was last season. Plus future commitments would be lessened tremendously. I could honestly see something like this happen.

[BADOLBILZ]

I can see players like Kyle released to make room for guys who fit a 2 gap system better. It's a freaking travesty because there is a ton of attacking, 1 gap talent on the team - much of which carries big contracts. That's going to be wasted in one fashion or another. My thought on Cromarte was that Rex was just doing him a favor by bringing him in, but what if that's wrong? What if he's seeing what his price is and is considering him a replacement for McKelvin? His release frees up $3.9M. What if Cromarte would come here for something like that? That's a real possibility - and an upgrade.

 

I don't think you can get those 4 players in for Kyle's release (plus the $500k for each of the other players that roll out of the Top 51), but you probably could get them for Kyle ($6.5M) plus McKelvin ($3.9M) plus two roll off players ($500k each). That's $11.4M. Say $4M for Cromarte, $4M (1st year hit) for McClain and $3.4M for Pace and Coples. I am just spitballing those numbers. I'll need to check, but it's certainly getting feasible.

 

I don't know that the defense will be better at the end of the day though. I have no faith that it'll be better than if Schwartz was here running his scheme. But he isn't here, Rex is - and it might be better than it was last season. Plus future commitments would be lessened tremendously. I could honestly see something like this happen.

 

 

For $4M per Cromartie can stay involuntarily retired.

[BarleyNY]

For $4M per Cromartie can stay involuntarily retired.

That's fine, but that is probably about where the situation stands. He's made $44M over his career so I can't see him taking some low rent deal unless he is ring chasing. (And just so I'm clear, Buffalo is not a destination for that in 2016.) Word is that McKelvin will take a pay cut, but I have no idea whether his idea of a pay cut and Whaley's are in the same ballpark. If you'd be upset paying Cromartie $4M for a year, just look at what McKelvin is marking. That'll really make you queasy.

[GunnerBill]

That's fine, but that is probably about where the situation stands. He's made $44M over his career so I can't see him taking some low rent deal unless he is ring chasing. (And just so I'm clear, Buffalo is not a destination for that in 2016.) Word is that McKelvin will take a pay cut, but I have no idea whether his idea of a pay cut and Whaley's are in the same ballpark. If you'd be upset paying Cromartie $4M for a year, just look at what McKelvin is marking. That'll really make you queasy.

 

At this stage I don't think either is worth $4m - but I'd rather pay it to Leo than Cro. Hard to exaggerate how bad he was last year.

[BarleyNY]

At this stage I don't think either is worth $4m - but I'd rather pay it to Leo than Cro. Hard to exaggerate how bad he was last year.

 

I didn't think either played particularly well, but I didn't see much of Cro. I'm assuming Rex thinks he can perform well in his defense, which he is very familiar with. You never know with players unless you have real inside info. Cro still seems a bit too young for that big of a fall off. Maybe he played dinged all year. Maybe he didn't fit the defensive scheme. Obviously if he's done, then he's done. You do him a favor and feign interest and leave it at that. Leo was awful at times, too. I saw him make some very nice plays at times though. I remember rewinding (at least twice) to double check to make sure it was him after some nice plays when he was starting due to injuries. So there is potential there, but his inconsistency was troubling. Of course, all of the disclaimers for Cro go for McKelvin as well. Was he dinged? Did he just get down on himself for his absolutely abysmal performance returning kicks (may we never see that again!)? Dunno. I will leave it to the people with the pertinent information to make the decisions on these two. I was just trying to see the possible paths that might get taken and why.

[26CornerBlitz]

@mikerodak

Bills save $14.65M between Mario and Urbik. The Cordy Glenn tag costs them $13.7. They’re ~$1.5M under adjusted cap, pre-Clay restructure

@JoeBuscaglia

Restructuring Clay and releasing Mario/Urbik clears up approx. $22.175 mill. But, $13.7M goes to Cordy, and they need about $9M for rookies.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

so they are 1.5 under pre clay and still have a few bloated contracts to get rid of. The whole issue was a non issue as most cap crisis are. Until they have a 15 million dollar qb they will always be able to move numbers around. For thos who say how could they spend so much and not have a 15 million dollar qb would you rather the be 15 under and not bring in players ?

[BringBackFergy]

 

@mikerodak

Bills save $14.65M between Mario and Urbik. The Cordy Glenn tag costs them $13.7. They’re ~$1.5M under adjusted cap, pre-Clay restructure

@JoeBuscaglia

Restructuring Clay and releasing Mario/Urbik clears up approx. $22.175 mill. But, $13.7M goes to Cordy, and they need about $9M for rookies.

 

So we're still about even??

[26CornerBlitz]

So we're still about even??

 

More work to do with McKelvin, Graham, and hopefully a long term deal with Glenn to free up additional $$. Maybe they can get a deal with Gilmore too?

@spotrac

#Bills now have $7.87M in cap space with the release of Mario Williams and Cordy Glenn franchise tagged http://bit.ly/1TP1V6O