Trump Alone at the Top

[reddogblitz]

If both parties aren't learning a lesson right now, they'll never learn it. And it isn't Trump or Bernie teaching them the lesson - it's the voters.

I suspect the lesson they're learning is the need to tighten up the rules on who can who cannot run.

[Magox]

As I've said before, it's the national Republican party - and especially the elected Republicans in Washington's fault that Trump has risen this far in the primary. For decades, they've paid only lip service to conservative and libertarian members of the party in order to garner their votes, while despising people like Cruz and any/all of the TEA Party organizations. Personally, I would have loved to see Cruz get the nomination, but it ain't happening this time around.

 

Trump is a different animal than your typical politician. He's said some outrageously ridiculous (not to mention classless) things during his rise to the nomination, but he's very obviously appealing to the millions of people who are completely fed up with the noodle-spined resistance to the Obama agenda that Republicans have displayed over the last 7-plus years. The same for Cruz - he literally had the entire party lined up against him, only gaining meager party support once it became obvious that Trump was close to gaining the nomination.

 

Compare today's run of the mill Washington Republican with John F. Kennedy - Kennedy was anti-soviet-communism, anti-socialism as a political system, pro-national defense, and pro-supply-side, in stark contrast with today's version of the American "right".

 

I'm not a Trump supporter, but I will be voting against whichever socialist gets the nod from the Democrats. All anyone who sympathizes with Republicans and Libertarians can do at this point is cross their fingers and pray that there's substance to Trump aside from the bombast and bluster.

 

So what could the "establishment" have done differently over the past eight years to have saved us from this "lesson"?

[3rdnlng]

 

So what could the "establishment" have done differently over the past eight years to have saved us from this "lesson"?

The establishment has played the game like the warden in "Shawshank Redemption". His obtuseness didn't work out for him very well, now did it? They should have listened to the "right" and adopted at least some of their thinking. The establishment Republicans are considered Democrat light by conservatives and no establishment candidate is going to get many votes from them. They should have learned their lesson in the past two presidential elections. They are the ones responsible for a candidate like Trump winning the nomination.

[Tiberius]

The establishment has played the game like the warden in "Shawshank Redemption". His obtuseness didn't work out for him very well, now did it? They should have listened to the "right" and adopted at least some of their thinking. The establishment Republicans are considered Democrat light by conservatives and no establishment candidate is going to get many votes from them. They should have learned their lesson in the past two presidential elections. They are the ones responsible for a candidate like Trump winning the nomination.

What ideas should they have listened to? Trumps ideas are absolutely abhorrent to those outside the right wing echo chamber that they are just non starters. Ethnic cleansing of the country? Trump? Never!

[Magox]

The establishment has played the game like the warden in "Shawshank Redemption". His obtuseness didn't work out for him very well, now did it? They should have listened to the "right" and adopted at least some of their thinking. The establishment Republicans are considered Democrat light by conservatives and no establishment candidate is going to get many votes from them. They should have learned their lesson in the past two presidential elections. They are the ones responsible for a candidate like Trump winning the nomination.

 

Specifics please

[GG]

Specifics please

Good luck with that. The meme is set.

[4merper4mer]

Good luck with that. The meme is set.

The meme on the sky being blue is also set. You know why? Because of its obviousity.

[GG]

The meme on the sky being blue is also set. You know why? Because of its obviousity.

 

Then you can play too. What was the GOP supposed to do over the last 7-1/2 years?

[3rdnlng]

 

Specifics please

Basically the Republican establishment is not fighting the attempts by the administration, specifically Obama, to rule by fiat. Congress has abdicated its rightful authority. It used to be that conservatives railed at Pelosi and Reid. Now that they aren't in the majority, conservatives rail at the establishment Republicans for acting as if they are Pelosi and Reid. We have a government that is tone deaf to the average American. Trump has resonated with a lot of people because those people despise the federal government for its overreach with its non Congress approved regulations and political correctness. In a nutshell, the calls for amnesty by the establishment became the rallying call for "The Wall".

[4merper4mer]

Then you can play too. What was the GOP supposed to do over the last 7-1/2 years?

How about removing a dime from the Obama commie budget before passing it? Paul Ryan could have used that dime to make a phone call and get some advice on how to dress properly.

[B-Man]

Basically the Republican establishment is not fighting the attempts by the administration, specifically Obama, to rule by fiat. Congress has abdicated its rightful authority. It used to be that conservatives railed at Pelosi and Reid. Now that they aren't in the majority, conservatives rail at the establishment Republicans for acting as if they are Pelosi and Reid. We have a government that is tone deaf to the average American. Trump has resonated with a lot of people because those people despise the federal government for its overreach with its non Congress approved regulations and political correctness. In a nutshell, the calls for amnesty by the establishment became the rallying call for "The Wall".

 

Well put.

 

 

 

President Fox Apologizes, Invites Trump to Mexico...

 

 

 

 

HOW WOMEN VOTED IN INDIANA:

 

The Republican Party returned to a more narrow gender gap, with 53 percent of the primary electorate made up of men and 47 percent made up of women.

Both sexes voted for Trump

. More men than women voted for Trump, 59 percent to 47 percent.

That’s a gender gap of 12 points.

 

Cruz came in second, but it was a distant second with men (33 percent) and a closer second with women (41 percent voted for the Texas senator).

 

The Democratic primary electorate faced a much wider gender gap, as has been the norm this election. Fifty-nine percent of Democratic primary voters in Indiana were women, and just 41 percent were men,

for a gender gap of 18 points.

 

Sanders won over 57 percent of men, but women split evenly. . . .

 

Sanders doesn’t usually do this well with women voters in close elections,

but it could be a sign that Clinton isn’t going to run away with the female vote as easily as she thought.

[Tiberius]

 

Well put.

 

 

 

President Fox Apologizes, Invites Trump to Mexico...

 

 

 

 

HOW WOMEN VOTED IN INDIANA:

 

The Republican Party returned to a more narrow gender gap, with 53 percent of the primary electorate made up of men and 47 percent made up of women.

Both sexes voted for Trump

. More men than women voted for Trump, 59 percent to 47 percent.

That’s a gender gap of 12 points.

 

Cruz came in second, but it was a distant second with men (33 percent) and a closer second with women (41 percent voted for the Texas senator).

 

The Democratic primary electorate faced a much wider gender gap, as has been the norm this election. Fifty-nine percent of Democratic primary voters in Indiana were women, and just 41 percent were men,

for a gender gap of 18 points.

 

Sanders won over 57 percent of men, but women split evenly. . . .

 

Sanders doesn’t usually do this well with women voters in close elections,

but it could be a sign that Clinton isn’t going to run away with the female vote as easily as she thought.

B-Man is for Trump!

[GG]

Basically the Republican establishment is not fighting the attempts by the administration, specifically Obama, to rule by fiat. Congress has abdicated its rightful authority. It used to be that conservatives railed at Pelosi and Reid. Now that they aren't in the majority, conservatives rail at the establishment Republicans for acting as if they are Pelosi and Reid. We have a government that is tone deaf to the average American. Trump has resonated with a lot of people because those people despise the federal government for its overreach with its non Congress approved regulations and political correctness. In a nutshell, the calls for amnesty by the establishment became the rallying call for "The Wall".

 

Welcome to the hotpocket guild. So in effect, you're blaming the GOP for not stomping up and down during the last 7-1/2 years because they didn't have the legislative power to do everything they wanted.

 

But as described here and in the other threads, with the gains they made in both houses, state legislatures and governorships, all that was needed was a bit of patience to retake the White House.

 

Patience. That old time virtue of maturity.

 

Now, you get what you're asking for. Hillary or Trump.

 

But don't listen to me, look at how a big player on Wall Street is loving a pending Trump presidency.

 

“He promises a wall, he promises to bring jobs back, and he promises a lot of infrastructure spending. Let’s face it: Trump is extremely comfortable with debt."

 

 

So let's recap, GOP is getting hammered for not holding the line on Obama's budget. Yet the biggest spending lines in the US budget are - entitlements, military & infrastructure - all three things that Trump promises will see an increase in spending.

 

Congratulations, suckers.

[Magox]

Basically the Republican establishment is not fighting the attempts by the administration, specifically Obama, to rule by fiat. Congress has abdicated its rightful authority. It used to be that conservatives railed at Pelosi and Reid. Now that they aren't in the majority, conservatives rail at the establishment Republicans for acting as if they are Pelosi and Reid. We have a government that is tone deaf to the average American. Trump has resonated with a lot of people because those people despise the federal government for its overreach with its non Congress approved regulations and political correctness. In a nutshell, the calls for amnesty by the establishment became the rallying call for "The Wall".

 

Specifics please. And what "amnesty" are you referring to? I don't ever remember a plan for amnesty. If you are referring to the Bill that passed the senate, that wasn't amnesty and even if I were to concede that it was which it wasn't, the House never took it up. So again, please provide specifics to where the "establishment" didn't fight the "attempts from the administration.".

Also, those who say that this is a lesson being shown to the "establishment". Well, I gotta say that is the most Ass backwards logic I think I've heard in quite a while. So you are going to punish the "establishment" because they supposedly didn't fight hard enough, so you are going to nominate a guy who is not only going to lose the presidency but the Senate and a decent bit of house seats and then you are going to help elect someone who is going to have a very similar agenda as the last 8 years for the next 4-8 years.

 

Genius!!!

 

End result, you are going to only strengthen the "establishments" (whoever the !@#$ they are) hand by showing what a colossal !@#$up this was.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Magox

[Azalin]

 

So what could the "establishment" have done differently over the past eight years to have saved us from this "lesson"?

 

 

 

Then you can play too. What was the GOP supposed to do over the last 7-1/2 years?

 

What they could have done is at least make some show of resistance to Obama's agenda instead of the tacit disagreement doled out in sound bites. They could have at least taken a symbolic stand along with Cruz against the ACA instead of treating him with ridicule. They could have taken a more aggressive stand against illegal immigration instead of going along with the gang of eight's soft policy regarding amnesty. They spent too much effort trying to appear as moderate, non-extremists to groups who will always portray them as being extremists regardless ( ie most major media outlets and the democrat party), and in doing so continued to alienate their base. They said that they couldn't stop the Obama agenda unless they had the House, so voters gave it to them. Then they said that they couldn't do anything unless they had the Senate, so voters gave it to them. Then, they said that they needed the White House in order to get anything done.

 

Establishment Republicans have come across as being too moderate with regard to standing up for conservative and libertarian principles, and have portrayed the one candidate who relentlessly stands up for those principles - Cruz - as being an extremist and "Lucifer incarnate".

 

How is this not obvious?

 

 

Also, those who say that this is a lesson being shown to the "establishment". Well, I gotta say that is the most Ass backwards logic I think I've heard in quite a while. So you are going to punish the "establishment" because they supposedly didn't fight hard enough, so you are going to nominate a guy who is not only going to lose the presidency but the Senate and a decent bit of house seats and then you are going to help elect someone who is going to have a very similar agenda as the last 8 years for the next 4-8 years.

 

A lot of those people who are pissed at the "establishment" supported Cruz, not Trump.

[Tiberius]

 

 

 

What they could have done is at least make some show of resistance to Obama's agenda instead of the tacit disagreement doled out in sound bites. They could have at least taken a symbolic stand along with Cruz against the ACA instead of treating him with ridicule. They could have taken a more aggressive stand against illegal immigration instead of going along with the gang of eight's soft policy regarding amnesty. They spent too much effort trying to appear as moderate, non-extremists to groups who will always portray them as being extremists regardless ( ie most major media outlets and the democrat party), and in doing so continued to alienate their base. They said that they couldn't stop the Obama agenda unless they had the House, so voters gave it to them. Then they said that they couldn't do anything unless they had the Senate, so voters gave it to them. Then, they said that they needed the White House in order to get anything done.

 

Establishment Republicans have come across as being too moderate with regard to standing up for conservative and libertarian principles, and have portrayed the one candidate who relentlessly stands up for those principles - Cruz - as being an extremist and "Lucifer incarnate".

 

How is this not obvious?

How dare they act like we live in a Constitutional Republic with--gasp!!--other people! So now you turn to a fascist

 

Ding! Hot Pocket is done!

[3rdnlng]

 

Welcome to the hotpocket guild. So in effect, you're blaming the GOP for not stomping up and down during the last 7-1/2 years because they didn't have the legislative power to do everything they wanted.

 

But as described here and in the other threads, with the gains they made in both houses, state legislatures and governorships, all that was needed was a bit of patience to retake the White House.

 

Patience. That old time virtue of maturity.

 

Now, you get what you're asking for. Hillary or Trump.

 

But don't listen to me, look at how a big player on Wall Street is loving a pending Trump presidency.

 

 

So let's recap, GOP is getting hammered for not holding the line on Obama's budget. Yet the biggest spending lines in the US budget are - entitlements, military & infrastructure - all three things that Trump promises will see an increase in spending.

 

Congratulations, suckers.

I gave an explanation as to why Trump has resonated with many. Do you not understand that I can tell you how the car accident happened with out approving of that car accident? The Republican establishment has gone along to get along and effectively condoned "workplace violence" vs. terrorism, "a person involved with the justice system" instead of a criminal, and refused to call Islamic terrorism Islamic terrorism. We now have "safe zones" and college students crying over "Trump" written on a sidewalk. I don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade. Trump is just not being niggardly about it.

[Magox]

 

 

 

What they could have done is at least make some show of resistance to Obama's agenda instead of the tacit disagreement doled out in sound bites. They could have at least taken a symbolic stand along with Cruz against the ACA instead of treating him with ridicule. They could have taken a more aggressive stand against illegal immigration instead of going along with the gang of eight's soft policy regarding amnesty. They spent too much effort trying to appear as moderate, non-extremists to groups who will always portray them as being extremists regardless ( ie most major media outlets and the democrat party), and in doing so continued to alienate their base. They said that they couldn't stop the Obama agenda unless they had the House, so voters gave it to them. Then they said that they couldn't do anything unless they had the Senate, so voters gave it to them. Then, they said that they needed the White House in order to get anything done.

 

Establishment Republicans have come across as being too moderate with regard to standing up for conservative and libertarian principles, and have portrayed the one candidate who relentlessly stands up for those principles - Cruz - as being an extremist and "Lucifer incarnate".

 

How is this not obvious?

 

 

 

1) Taken a stand with Cruz? Please!!!! He did it for himself and his brand and for no other reason than that. Everyone knew it was destined to fail everyone except for the right wing media hucksters who were helping push this narrative so that they could fool a bunch of gullible listeners and viewers.

2) You wanted them to take a more aggressive stand against Immigration? I won't even argue the merits of the law, but the last I recall the house didn't even take it up. Case closed, they shut it down.

3)

"They spent too much effort trying to appear as moderate, non-extremists to groups who will always portray them as being extremists regardless ( ie most major media outlets and the democrat party), and in doing so continued to alienate their base."

 

 

 

Like what? specifics

 

4)

They said that they couldn't stop the Obama agenda unless they had the House, so voters gave it to them. Then they said that they couldn't do anything unless they had the Senate, so voters gave it to them.

 

 

Obama's agenda? You mean like gun control? Ever since the Obama administration has lost the House and Senate, name me one piece of significant legislation that he has been able to pass?

 

5)

Establishment Republicans have come across as being too moderate with regard to standing up for conservative and libertarian principles, and have portrayed the one candidate who relentlessly stands up for those principles - Cruz - as being an extremist and "Lucifer incarnate".

 

 

And I believe that Republicans aren't "moderate" enough. So I guess we are in a stalemate.

 

How is this not obvious?

 

 

Because its not founded on reality.

[3rdnlng]

 

 

 

1) Taken a stand with Cruz? Please!!!! He did it for himself and his brand and for no other reason than that. Everyone knew it was destined to fail everyone except for the right wing media hucksters who were helping push this narrative so that they could fool a bunch of gullible listeners and viewers.

2) You wanted them to take a more aggressive stand against Immigration? I won't even argue the merits of the law, but the last I recall the house didn't even take it up. Case closed, they shut it down.

3)

 

Like what? specifics

 

4)

 

Obama's agenda? You mean like gun control? Ever since the Obama administration has lost the House and Senate, name me one piece of significant legislation that he has been able to pass?

 

5)

 

And I believe that Republicans aren't "moderate" enough. So I guess we are in a stalemate.

 

 

Because its not founded on reality.

He hasn't needed Congress to pass any legislation. He just does it. Congress should be screaming like hell and causing an uproar with each executive order that usurps their authority.

[GG]

 

 

 

What they could have done is at least make some show of resistance to Obama's agenda instead of the tacit disagreement doled out in sound bites. They could have at least taken a symbolic stand along with Cruz against the ACA instead of treating him with ridicule. They could have taken a more aggressive stand against illegal immigration instead of going along with the gang of eight's soft policy regarding amnesty. They spent too much effort trying to appear as moderate, non-extremists to groups who will always portray them as being extremists regardless ( ie most major media outlets and the democrat party), and in doing so continued to alienate their base. They said that they couldn't stop the Obama agenda unless they had the House, so voters gave it to them. Then they said that they couldn't do anything unless they had the Senate, so voters gave it to them. Then, they said that they needed the White House in order to get anything done.

 

Establishment Republicans have come across as being too moderate with regard to standing up for conservative and libertarian principles, and have portrayed the one candidate who relentlessly stands up for those principles - Cruz - as being an extremist and "Lucifer incarnate".

 

How is this not obvious?

 

A lot of those people who are pissed at the "establishment" supported Cruz, not Trump.

 

Cruz acted like a petulant child and now the GOP is paying the price.

 

That's why grown-ups who get things accomplished don't engage in theatrics, but work towards a solution. And that requires alliances and patience. Tell me how often instant gratification works.

 

And for the record, I understand exactly why Trump ran away with it, and that's what I"m slamming. People are angry at what's been happening over the last eight years. But as everybody knows, you should not be making any serious decisions while you're angry.

 

Now America is set to join the rest of the world in settling in for a populist demagogue. So check the records of what happens to the general population when that occurs. Trump's core base of angry white males are going to be decimated economically in the coming four years. But at least they'll still have their tantrum.