The James white touchdown...

[Buffalo2525]

Yea, yea I get it we lost fair and square and I'm just being a sore loser who's butt hurt. But look at this ****! https://t.co/ZaUpEh9wbf

[PatsFanNH]

We get it the Refs SUCKED! its kinda ol news now lol

[Maddog69]

Heard it discussed by Mike Pereira. The play never should have been allowed to happen for 2 reasons

1.) *Pats had a guy run partway onto the field and then back off (I think it was Chandler). The Bills tried to run a player on to address that and that had to run him off. Pereira said that, at that point, the Ref should've stood over the ball and allowed to bills to properly address the attempted substitution before allowing the *Pats to snap the ball.

2.) Ignoring this, the play also should have blown dead because Hughs was so far in the backfield. Pereira said the ref should have blown the whistle and flagged the bills for a pre-snap offsides. This would've given the *Pats some penalty yardage and then they would've had to reset the play.

 

The Bills got screwed on this play.

[fridge]

We get it the Refs SUCKED! its kinda ol news now lol

 

Oh is it old news for you? Are you sick of hearing about it now?

 

You're not welcome here - not sure why everyone's being so polite to you. I've had to suffer through 15 years of blatant ref abuse. Each game, the calls are constantly weighted towards the "better" opponent and it's sometimes so obvious it becomes the longest thread the next day. We get NO benefit of the doubt, and sometimes it feels like the planets must align before we can complete a 5 yard pass. We had probably 10 threads in the week leading up to the game PREDICTING CORRECTLY that this nonsense would happen.

 

But you're a pats fan and it happens to you one time and now you think it's all honky-dory?

 

The blown whistle happened BEFORE he threw the ball by the way. You were not robbed a touchdown. It was an embarrassment that they held a damn seminar to figure out what to do and awarded your team a catch we weren't defending AND tacked on 15 yards despite no flag being thrown. Your QB threw a pick in the 1st quarter, and it was taken back and that was so mundane and average no one is even talking about it... is it old though? really? it's old news?

[Doc]

It's why the Pats never have and never will get the respect true champs do. And they know it.

[KDIGGZ]

1) that is against the rules you can't do that, refs should not have marked the ball ready until both sides had made their substitutions

2) i wish we had coaches smart enough to call that play. our idiot coaches had us huddling as the clock is ticking at the end of the game and not lining up or snapping the ball until the very last second on basically every single play

[Freddie's Dead]

Interesting. Two conflicting rules here. It's not a substitution unless Chandler gets to the numbers:

 

ARTICLE 5. OFFENSIVE SUBSTITUTIONS. The following are applicable to any offensive substitute who is entering the
game:
(a) He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a
legal substitution. If he does not, and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal
substitute.

 

The term "simulated substitution" is never defined. I see that a lot in the NFL rulebook.

 

The interesting part is the fact that Hughes is clearly 20 yards offside, and that in and of itself should blow the play dead.

 

ARTICLE 1. BALL READY FOR PLAY. After the neutral zone has been established (ball is made or declared ready for play),
an offensive player may not make a false start, a defensive player may not encroach (initiate contact with a member of the
offensive team) or commit a neutral zone infraction, and no player of either team may be offside when the ball is put in play.

 

Yet another mistake by the refs, but let's face it. The Cheats get the TD there no matter what.

[MarkAF43]

 

Oh is it old news for you? Are you sick of hearing about it now?

 

You're not welcome here - not sure why everyone's being so polite to you. I've had to suffer through 15 years of blatant ref abuse. Each game, the calls are constantly weighted towards the "better" opponent and it's sometimes so obvious it becomes the longest thread the next day. We get NO benefit of the doubt, and sometimes it feels like the planets must align before we can complete a 5 yard pass. We had probably 10 threads in the week leading up to the game PREDICTING CORRECTLY that this nonsense would happen.

 

But you're a pats fan and it happens to you one time and now you think it's all honky-dory?

 

The blown whistle happened BEFORE he threw the ball by the way. You were not robbed a touchdown. It was an embarrassment that they held a damn seminar to figure out what to do and awarded your team a catch we weren't defending AND tacked on 15 yards despite no flag being thrown. Your QB threw a pick in the 1st quarter, and it was taken back and that was so mundane and average no one is even talking about it... is it old though? really? it's old news?

 

 

There is no need to attack this poster. He hasn't been rubbing anything in anyones faces, he's here discussing a football game. Yes people are upset we lost and some feel we were screwed by the refs. Don't attack visiting posters who aren't trolling.

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting. Two conflicting rules here. It's not a substitution unless Chandler gets to the numbers:

 

ARTICLE 5. OFFENSIVE SUBSTITUTIONS. The following are applicable to any offensive substitute who is entering the

game:

(a) He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a

legal substitution. If he does not, and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal

substitute.

 

The term "simulated substitution" is never defined. I see that a lot in the NFL rulebook.

 

The interesting part is the fact that Hughes is clearly 20 yards offside, and that in and of itself should blow the play dead.

 

ARTICLE 1. BALL READY FOR PLAY. After the neutral zone has been established (ball is made or declared ready for play),

an offensive player may not make a false start, a defensive player may not encroach (initiate contact with a member of the

offensive team) or commit a neutral zone infraction, and no player of either team may be offside when the ball is put in play.

 

Yet another mistake by the refs, but let's face it. The Cheats get the TD there no matter what.

Just because it is not a legal substitution because of the inside of the numbers component, doesn't mean it's not an illegal substitution to run out and then run back, thereby negating the defense's ability to make changes. Pereira all but said that.

[Freddie's Dead]

Just because it is not a legal substitution because of the inside of the numbers component, doesn't mean it's not an illegal substitution to run out and then run back, thereby negating the defense's ability to make changes. Pereira all but said that.

I'd agree with you if the term "simulated substitution" was defined, but it's not. It hints that the sub has to be in the huddle or communicating with a player on the field, but it should be clearly defined in the DEFINITIONS section. The rules are fuzzy here.

[ko12010]

 

Oh is it old news for you? Are you sick of hearing about it now?

 

You're not welcome here - not sure why everyone's being so polite to you. I've had to suffer through 15 years of blatant ref abuse. Each game, the calls are constantly weighted towards the "better" opponent and it's sometimes so obvious it becomes the longest thread the next day. We get NO benefit of the doubt, and sometimes it feels like the planets must align before we can complete a 5 yard pass. We had probably 10 threads in the week leading up to the game PREDICTING CORRECTLY that this nonsense would happen.

 

But you're a pats fan and it happens to you one time and now you think it's all honky-dory?

 

The blown whistle happened BEFORE he threw the ball by the way. You were not robbed a touchdown. It was an embarrassment that they held a damn seminar to figure out what to do and awarded your team a catch we weren't defending AND tacked on 15 yards despite no flag being thrown. Your QB threw a pick in the 1st quarter, and it was taken back and that was so mundane and average no one is even talking about it... is it old though? really? it's old news?

Thank you. Jeez. Tired of this dipsh*t trolling around here pretending to be a friendly opposing team fan. And you are 100% correct--this is normal treatment for the Bills. One messed up play on national television and all of a sudden everyone cares about how terrible the refs are.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'd agree with you if the term "simulated substitution" was defined, but it's not. It hints that the sub has to be in the huddle or communicating with a player on the field, but it should be clearly defined in the DEFINITIONS section. The rules are fuzzy here.

They are but it seems to me that if that were true, teams would be pulling that run on/run off thing every game.

[fridge]

 

 

There is no need to attack this poster. He hasn't been rubbing anything in anyones faces, he's here discussing a football game. Yes people are upset we lost and some feel we were screwed by the refs. Don't attack visiting posters who aren't trolling.

I swear this forum is more sensitive than a knitting blog sometimes.

[Tuco]

Interesting. Two conflicting rules here. It's not a substitution unless Chandler gets to the numbers:

 

ARTICLE 5. OFFENSIVE SUBSTITUTIONS. The following are applicable to any offensive substitute who is entering the

game:

(a) He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a

legal substitution. If he does not, and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal

substitute.

 

The term "simulated substitution" is never defined. I see that a lot in the NFL rulebook.

 

The interesting part is the fact that Hughes is clearly 20 yards offside, and that in and of itself should blow the play dead.

 

ARTICLE 1. BALL READY FOR PLAY. After the neutral zone has been established (ball is made or declared ready for play),

an offensive player may not make a false start, a defensive player may not encroach (initiate contact with a member of the

offensive team) or commit a neutral zone infraction, and no player of either team may be offside when the ball is put in play.

 

Yet another mistake by the refs, but let's face it. The Cheats get the TD there no matter what.

You're right, it isn't defined. But the play is discussed a couple more times in the rule book.

ARTICLE 10. DEFENSIVE MATCHUPS FOLLOWING SUBSTITUTIONS.

If a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. While in the process of a substitution (or simulated substitution), the offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e., too many men on the field). If the offense substitutes, the following procedure will apply:

(a) The Umpire will stand over the ball until the Referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its

substitutions.

(b) If the offense snaps the ball before the defense has had an opportunity to complete its substitutions, and a defensive foul for too many players on the field results, no penalties will be enforced, except for personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct, and the down will be replayed. At this time, the Referee will notify the head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Note: The quick-snap rule does not apply after the two-minute warning of either half, or if there is not a substitution by the offense.

© On a fourth-down punting situation, the Referee and the Umpire will not allow a quick snap that prevents the defense from having a reasonable time to complete its substitutions. This applies throughout the entire game.

(d) If the play clock expires before the defense has completed its substitution, it is delay of game by the offense.

ARTICLE 11. UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT.

Using entering substitutes, legally returning players, substitutes on sidelines, or withdrawn players to confuse opponents, or lingering by players leaving the field when being replaced by a substitute, is unsportsmanlike conduct. See 12-3-1-l. The offense is prevented from sending simulated substitutions onto the field toward its huddle and returning them to the sideline without completing the substitution in an attempt to confuse the defense.

Rule 12

SECTION 3 UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT

ARTICLE 1. PROHIBITED ACTS.

There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the

generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include, among others:

(l) Using entering substitutes, legally returning players, substitutes on sidelines, or withdrawn players to confuse opponents, including lingering by players leaving the field after being replaced by a substitute.

[BaaadThingsMan]

 

Oh is it old news for you? Are you sick of hearing about it now?

 

You're not welcome here - not sure why everyone's being so polite to you. I've had to suffer through 15 years of blatant ref abuse. Each game, the calls are constantly weighted towards the "better" opponent and it's sometimes so obvious it becomes the longest thread the next day. We get NO benefit of the doubt, and sometimes it feels like the planets must align before we can complete a 5 yard pass. We had probably 10 threads in the week leading up to the game PREDICTING CORRECTLY that this nonsense would happen.

 

But you're a pats fan and it happens to you one time and now you think it's all honky-dory?

 

The blown whistle happened BEFORE he threw the ball by the way. You were not robbed a touchdown. It was an embarrassment that they held a damn seminar to figure out what to do and awarded your team a catch we weren't defending AND tacked on 15 yards despite no flag being thrown. Your QB threw a pick in the 1st quarter, and it was taken back and that was so mundane and average no one is even talking about it... is it old though? really? it's old news?

Sigh, the fact that everyone knew that the refs would affect the outcome of this game before it started is the worst!

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

We get it the Refs SUCKED! its kinda ol news now lol

It's not.

 

You haven't had to endure it the past 15+ years. Your pats* are all too frequently on the benefiting side of shoddy officiating so you don't know what it's like.

 

When you have to deal with this all too predictible crap season after season it gets old and tiresome. There were mutiple threads here BEFORE this game even started stressing how to beat the pats* and refs. Unfortunately those were more correct than not. Granted the bills didn't execute when it mattered or helped themselves but they were routinely hosed on significant plays in this game, just like many others.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This was, by far, the worst officiating mistake of the game. The refs job is to monitor those substitutions, and prevent deceptive or simulated substitutions. It was a really obvious penalty too.

 

Also, contrast this to the TT fumble on the last drive that the Bills recovered; the refs were taking their sweet time, letting like 30 seconds run off, to spot the ball. This, while sprinting down the field on the James White play to make sure the Pats can get a quick snap on an illegal play.

[dbmu1977]

That totally sucks that the refs muffed this call and cost us a td. The bills defense played a hell of a game and who knows what would happened if we had 11 players on the field for that series. The refs choked on monday night, really sucks.

[What a Tuel]

You guys think this poster has it wrong? Check out the other Patriot fans. They are convinced that play call was an effort by the NFL to ensure the Patriots do not have a Super Bowl run

Edited November 25, 2015 by What a Tuel

[Uncle Monkeyhead]

.

[Dan]

The number of bad calls in this game was absolutely mind boggling. We all knew we'd lose, ultimately because the refs would screw us. But, damn, the number of calls/non calls are almost too numerous to count.

 

The 3 in this article are perhaps 3 of the worst. Watkins clearly rolled out of bounds untouched. We had 2 seconds left. Also, I was screaming... Chandler (I didn't know it was him at the time) was clearly substituting or trying or on the field. That's either a penalty or a stoppage long enough to let the defense substitute. We got neither.

 

The whistle blew early, before the catch, not after. That's a replay of down. The one thing in regard to this play I'd like to point out... They did not in any way take away a TD. The Bills defender clearly let up and stopped playing when he heard the whistle. He didn't even attempt a tackle. That's the only reason the WR was running down a wide open field.

 

What's most horrendous about all this...? These are all simple, basic calls! This isn't open to interpretation, was his hand going forward kinda crap. These calls are straightforward, easy to see, with well established penalties and procedures in place. Even casual fans know this stuff. How can the NFL allow officiating like this to continue? They're either completely incompetent or on the take. There's no other way around it.

[Bookie Man]

NFL officiating is complete garbage. With all of the video and replay capabilities, it would be very easy to come up with a better system. Kind of like the security system of Best Buy. But instead, let's have a bunch of fools running around, making morons out of themselves. Can someone please make a facebook page or something, called NFL CHUMPires so people from all teams can really bring attention this joke of an officiating system?