reddogblitz Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) I said "advanced stats." Yes, everyone knew about home runs and batting average before Moneyball. You should read the book. And just because of this adage you speak of, which is an old and often true one, doesn't mean that Peyton Manning should start when he's healthy. It would be ludicrous for him to start at this point. We'll see in a couple of weeks. Maybe Brock won't be so popular any more. Maybe he'll be injured. A lot can happen in a couple of weeks. Edited December 2, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) When the starting QB is literally the worst starting QB in all of football and the second string guy is clearly better, then they should be the fan favorite. I'm curious. By what standard is Peyton Manning "literally the worst starting QB in all of football"? Was he that bad in the first 8 games or whatever it was when the Broncos were undefeated? Edited December 2, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Exactly. Me and my brother had an in depth conversation about this the other day. Ever since Moneyball, baseball has been all about advanced stats, logic and probability. Look at Tim Murray- all he does is talk analytics. Meanwhile, football is the lone major sport that still relies on the old guard telling us about "Gruden's Grinders" and still punting on 4th and 3 from the other team's 43 yard line so they can give the other team the ball for free and save 25 yards in field position and not throw to Sammy Watkins when he is an unstoppable force and not pay a guy $50K to sit in a box and tell the coach exactly when to challenge and when not to. The same would go for anyone saying "when Peyton Manning is healthy, he's the guy" because he used to be really good. When the starting QB is literally the worst starting QB in all of football and the second string guy is clearly better, then they should be the fan favorite. This is not like when Jim Kelly in his prime would have one bad game and Biff from Tonawanda would call in and say that Frank Reich should be the starter. I can't stand the punting on 4th and 3 in the other teams territory. Awful call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshermw Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Let's not make this an EJ vs. TT competition. TT is the starter and is not now nor ever going to be a franchise QB. If you watched him in college at VA Tech, he was ok but not an NFL caliber QB and that is what we have now five years post VA TECH. He is just ok. If good QB's were easy to find everyone would have one - but there are only a few really good ones out there, the rest are just ok some a little better, some a little worse. I can only hope one day we get luck and find a true franchise QB - until then it's QB purgatory. I have tried to stay out of this ridiculous thread as much as possible but this is all dead wrong. By the time he was a senior TT was an NFL QB - only the NFL scout fvcks labeled him a WR cuz he was fast. Tyrod was 4-0 vs. Ponder, EJ, and Russel Wilson in college - with definitely less talent around him than EJ or Ponder at FSU. You watched no real important VT games. So please don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The Bills scored 22 points and racked up 415 yards in horrible weather against a top defense playing at Arrowhead. KC's defensive stats in the previous 6 games: 3 pts/201 yards; 13 pts/221 yards; 10 pts/276 yards; 13 points/339 yards; 16 points/321 yards; 18 points/328 yards. Opposing team passer ratings against KC this year: 81.2. Taylor's rating yesterday: 106.4. Yeah, he was horrible. Again, this thread is ridiculous. People just love to complain. I approve this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I gave TT credit for the same against Miami, ergo to be fair the same has to go to EJ. Soooo I should edit it for when the Patriots were in a prevent in the 1st TT game ergo the 19 points don't count. Ugly the whole game... Got it. Back to IGNORE mode Chan ... BYE No matter how far you bend over backwards to draw an equivalence it's plain for all but the most smitten of EJ fanboys to see that Tyrod has outplayed him by a good margin. Cherrypicking data to compare EJ's highlights to Tyrod's lowlights is not persuasive. The fact is that Tyrod's worst games are nowhere near as bad as EJ's worst and Tyrod's best games blow EJ's out of the water. He's got a better record as a starter despite having an inferior defense, and as much as I hate stay geeks it is worth noting that over 16 games EJ has never thrown 3 TDs in a game - over 9 games Taylor's done it 3 times, and one of those was a 4 TD performance. The comparison's really not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Ha. I remember my mom trying to tell me that Frank Reich should start over Jim Kelly. It's weird to remember how a segment of the fans just didn't like Kelly, so would actually make such ridiculous claims. Sorry Mom... Towards the end my wife was doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Yes, they do. Peyton Manning Drew Brees Kurt Warner Carson Palmer Jay Cutler Alex Smith Matt Hasselbeck (definitely franchise in mid 2000s) Randall Cunningham (took Vikings to NFC Championship late in career. Vikings lost due to missed FGs, several) Brett Favre (took Vikings to NFC Championship late in career.) Steve Young Brad Johnson Yeah we can draft and develop a QB (like that ever works). I'd prefer to see us use the Arizona Cardinals model. Find some QB who has had success and maybe seen as having lost it or whatever, and pounce (and win). Yes he was. You do realize he, like Tyrod, didn't play for his first 3 or 4 years, right? Although I would quibble over some of them, its a good historical list. But who do you see available for next season that would apply? And at what cost? Heres my take. AFC East We'd only want Brady and he won't be available. North Flacco, ben, dalton ....none will be available Central Luck ...won't be available. West Manning might be available but he's ready for the glue factory NFC East Outside chance at Romo being available (depending who they draft), but he may not be worth it given age and injury history RG3 will be available...id be interested on the right terms. Looked better in the pocket than Taylor. Bradford could be available, and might be worth it on right terms. North Cutler will be, not a fan but on right terms why not? Stafford some way will be, but I highly doubt it. If by chance he were I'd be on it Central Like stafford some say brees could be available, I highly doubt it. He's old but on right terms why not? West Foles? This would be his 3rd team in as many years, no thanks. Kaepernick likely on the block. I'd be on it. In fact all things considered ....cost, age, potential...that's who I'd prioritize Edited December 2, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 No matter how far you bend over backwards to draw an equivalence it's plain for all but the most smitten of EJ fanboys to see that Tyrod has outplayed him by a good margin. Cherrypicking data to compare EJ's highlights to Tyrod's lowlights is not persuasive. The fact is that Tyrod's worst games are nowhere near as bad as EJ's worst and Tyrod's best games blow EJ's out of the water. He's got a better record as a starter despite having an inferior defense, and as much as I hate stay geeks it is worth noting that over 16 games EJ has never thrown 3 TDs in a game - over 9 games Taylor's done it 3 times, and one of those was a 4 TD performance. The comparison's really not close. Please reread my post with an open mind. Do not assume you know my intent. For clarity I posted every game this season and what I deemed complete games, good starts, bad starts etc etc . There was no intent on saying one was better than the other. Should I have ignored those 2 games when reviewing the season and the Offense? Please review my post with a clearer mind and let me know in which game analysis that I was far off base in. The net result is Alex Smith played well throughout the entire game whereas the Bills slowed to a crawl and fell short of their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Please reread my post with an open mind. Do not assume you know my intent. For clarity I posted every game this season and what I deemed complete games, good starts, bad starts etc etc . There was no intent on saying one was better than the other. Should I have ignored those 2 games when reviewing the season and the Offense? Please review my post with a clearer mind and let me know in which game analysis that I was far off base in. The net result is Alex Smith played well throughout the entire game whereas the Bills slowed to a crawl and fell short of their potential. Hey man, no arguing here. I think I would respectfully disagree though, that EJ Manuel played a "complete game" against Cincinnati. I think he played somewhere between a "poor" and "average" game. He threw an absolutely horrendous INT in the first half that was intended for Hogan. He missed a ton of throws. He made a few plays as well. Even after the game though, after Taylor not showing a ton the previous few weeks and that being Manuel's big chance, I don't think even the most staunch EJ defenders were lauding his performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm curious. By what standard is Peyton Manning "literally the worst starting QB in all of football"? Was he that bad in the first 8 games or whatever it was when the Broncos were undefeated? I will answer your question. Statistically, he is and was literally the worst starting QB in all of football. Eye test wise, he is and was also literally the worst starting QB in all of football. W-L record is simply not a good way to gauge a QB's performance. Yes he was 7-2. Look at every game individually. There were games they won where the offense didn't even score a TD. I believe they were the 30th ranked offense when they were 7-0. He let poor teams hang around. The only game they won handily and he played well in was the Green Bay game. It's over for Peyton Manning. Sorry man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) For those who critiqued my game reviews TT - Complete games -- Colts (edited moved Miami #1) Miami #23/4 's Complete games -- Miami #1 * 3rd QRT no points,Bad Start, strong finish -- NE #1 * opening drive good, the rest Bad Start, bad finish -- JETS #1 * ZIP in the 1st and 4th QTR - almost let that game slip awayGreat Start, bad finish -- KCBad game throughout -- NY Giants, followed directly another @ Tennessee but with a better 2nd half, NE #2 * a TD in the 3rd QTR EJ -3/4 's Complete game -- Cincinnati * 3rd QRT no points, TD QTR 1, 2, 4 Bad Start strong finish -- JAX - strong 4th QRT even with the Shady fumble at the 4 yard line The results - 2 complete games by TT. The Un Luck(y) Colts and a poor Miami team. 0 by EJ. Edited December 2, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 So to be clear, Tyrod Taylor is grading out the same for his Miami #1 game (21/29, 277 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 136.7 passer rating and a blowout win) as EJ Manuel did for the Cincinnati game (28/42, 263 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 81.7 passer rating and a blowout loss). Got it. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Bump. Crickets! EJ does look sharp in that knit cap though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) OK... If you consider 4/8, one a screen pass, one for two yards, and one for three yards to be the pinnacle of QB play... Well... I will say that Taylor has thrown two very nice balls today, that hadn't really been part of his tool belt before, on the long ball down the middle Watkins, and the anticipation throw to Woods. And that's very encouraging. Tyrod can be very effective playing with the lead, when he's not asked to sling it all over the field. Edited December 6, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 OK... If you consider 4/8, one a screen pass, one for two yards, and one for three yards to be the pinnacle of QB play... Well... I will say that Taylor has thrown two very nice balls today, that hadn't really been part of his tool belt before, on the long ball down the middle Watkins, and the anticipation throw to Woods. And that's very encouraging. Tyrod can be very effective playing with the lead, when he's not asked to sling it all over the field. Hell, we are 3 quarters in and he has 7 completions. Objectively we'd all be skeptical if it was a jets or Dolphins qb flashing big potential but also being hidden by his coaches. Either the stretch this year or out of the gate next they will open it all up and we will see where things fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Pretty much it's at the point where you are a complete fool if you think Tyrod isn't good enough/ going to be good enough to lead this team. Will this thread end tonight? It should but I'd bet my life that it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Pretty much it's at the point where you are a complete fool if you think Tyrod isn't good enough/ going to be good enough to lead this team. Will this thread end tonight? It should but I'd bet my life that it won't. Is that in your esteemed opinion? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is that in your esteemed opinion? Lol Absolutely, and the rest of the league too I'm quite sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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