BillsVet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 There of course is such a thing as good change. You yourself just admitted Whaley's made the teams better yet you want to run him out of town because he hasn't won fast enough. That's a recipe for making a poor decision. The team JUST underwent an ownership change, followed quickly by an entire coaching staff change and front office reshuffling. They've had less than 12 months, zero time to build any kind of stability within the organization or on the field. No one is arguing Whaley's been perfect (at least I'm not), but he's been far better than any of his recent predecessors especially when you factor in the organizational changes he's had to survive. Give the guy some time. Change for the sake of change is how you end up being on the outside looking in for 15 years. He's had 3 off-seasons, had a significant budget to work with, traded up for a highly-touted WR, and had 3 drafts total. Not to mention inherited some talent. He could make the case he didn't get to hire a HC. Yet, the new ownership hasn't extended him and I find this very telling. What else would they be doing if not evaluating him? And if they're doing that, none of the things that you mention really matter because they didn't hire him. And yes, Whaley looks good compared to two non personnel types (Brandon and Marv) and one guy who was over his head (Nix) who were Bills GM's in the past 10 seasons. Doesn't mean he's that good either. I don't think you can necessarily judge a GM's work by wins and losses, as there's a lot more that goes into it than that. There's nothing then that I can offer any further. They are judged on wins and losses. We'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 There's nothing then that I can offer any further. They are judged on wins and losses. We'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that they're judged on wins and losses; I simply disagree that W/L record is the only criterion. Let me ask it this way: is this Bills team talented enough to make the playoffs? If not, what should Whaley have done since January of 2013 to make it so? You may say no to the first question, and you may have a perfectly reasonable answer to the second question...I'm just not sure what that answer would be, hence my asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) He's had 3 off-seasons, had a significant budget to work with, traded up for a highly-touted WR, and had 3 drafts total. Not to mention inherited some talent. He could make the case he didn't get to hire a HC. Yet, the new ownership hasn't extended him and I find this very telling. What else would they be doing if not evaluating him? And if they're doing that, none of the things that you mention really matter because they didn't hire him. And yes, Whaley looks good compared to two non personnel types (Brandon and Marv) and one guy who was over his head (Nix) who were Bills GM's in the past 10 seasons. Doesn't mean he's that good either. There's nothing then that I can offer any further. They are judged on wins and losses. We'll have to agree to disagree. 3 2 drafts, 2.5 off seasons in the big-boy chair -- coupled with an owner dying, the team operating in limbo for ten months, a new owner, followed by a coach bailing on the team -- yup, Whaley's had nothing but stability and sunshine during his tenure. In that time, he's improved the overall quality of the roster every year. So let's add more instability to the regime. That's the way you go from finally getting over the hump (which this team is closer to than ever) to perpetually rebuilding (again). Just say no to that plan. Edited October 30, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 For those that remember the Bills from 2003-2010, you would know this is a much more talented team than prior to 5 years ago. Nix, then whaley have made misses, but overall they built a much better team than the above stated years of incompetence in the front office. I don't hate Whaley. should he have kept Cassel, yes, is EJ deplorable, yes, but he drafted relatively well, and then when we didn't have a first round pick, he convinces the Pegulas to open the well, and spend to the cap in cash for these free agents. We haven't seen it come together due to a horrible season of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 For those that remember the Bills from 2003-2010, you would know this is a much more talented team than prior to 5 years ago. Nix, then whaley have made misses, but overall they built a much better team than the above stated years of incompetence in the front office. I don't hate Whaley. should he have kept Cassel, yes, is EJ deplorable, yes, but he drafted relatively well, and then when we didn't have a first round pick, he convinces the Pegulas to open the well, and spend to the cap in cash for these free agents. We haven't seen it come together due to a horrible season of injuries. By leaps and bounds... Do people remember when Kieth Ellison was the team's best LB on the entire roster? I still have nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Do people remember when Kieth Ellison was the team's best LB on the entire roster? I still have nightmares. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I believe 100% that this season is not over and very good things can still happen with this team.... but as it stands right now, what takes place with Whaley after the season? 1. He is given a nice promotion with true GM authority, Rex now reporting to him. Very highly unlikely if Rex hasn't been reporting to him from the get-go. 2. He is given a multi-year extension with a nice raise. Could happen, but I don't think it will, based on current results. 3. He is offered a 1-year contract (ie. another chance to prove his worth) 4. He isn't offered an extension at all. Right now, I'd say 3 or 4 are most likely. If DW has another opportunity elsewhere, he may just walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I worry about losing Whaley. I am blown away by fans that are trying to run him out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I worry about losing Whaley. I am blown away by fans that are trying to run him out of town. Some Bills fans like myself want a higher standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyAbounds Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Whaley has put together a hell of a team. There's only 5-10 good QBs in the league, everyone else is mediocre to bad. If he was the main guy on the Rex hire, and we continue to disappoint in coaching, then maybe I look at Whaley, but I wouldn't be surprised if Pegula was the big decider there. I'm not on the Fire Whaley bandwagon, but how can you argue that Whaley has put together "a hell of a team" when they are 3-4, having lost 3 of 4 at home and losing at a neutral site to one of the two or three worst teams in the league? It seems the team's record speaks far more clearly than everyone's impression of how good the Bills look on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Some Bills fans like myself want a higher standard. Ha! I was hoping you'd show up! It's always your posts that leave me shaking my head, and they're across so many dang threads. Waging quite the campaign. It goes without saying that I completely disagree, and I think Whaley's roster building has been one of the brighter spots in this franchise. (I don't think the cap will be an issue with restructuring and contracts that will come off the books, and I think firing a GM over EJ not panning out would be foolish.) But hey, I'm just some guy on the internet I'm not on the Fire Whaley bandwagon, but how can you argue that Whaley has put together "a hell of a team" when they are 3-4, having lost 3 of 4 at home and losing at a neutral site to one of the two or three worst teams in the league? It seems the team's record speaks far more clearly than everyone's impression of how good the Bills look on paper. Poor coaching with some injuries. Our roster is stacked with talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm not on the Fire Whaley bandwagon, but how can you argue that Whaley has put together "a hell of a team" when they are 3-4, having lost 3 of 4 at home and losing at a neutral site to one of the two or three worst teams in the league? It seems the team's record speaks far more clearly than everyone's impression of how good the Bills look on paper. Because we don't have pitchforks. Seriously though, why does someone need to be blamed at this point for 3-4? There are a number of considerations as to why we are 3-4. Not the least of them is half of the starting offense that Whaley actually built were injured the last two games. I mean come on. Take a deep breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Ha! I was hoping you'd show up! It's always your posts that leave me shaking my head, and they're across so many dang threads. Waging quite the campaign. It goes without saying that I completely disagree, and I think Whaley's roster building has been one of the brighter spots in this franchise. (I don't think the cap will be an issue with restructuring and contracts that will come off the books, and I think firing a GM over EJ not panning out would be foolish.) But hey, I'm just some guy on the internet Average drafting at its best (with the exception of one player Darby that I loved when they drafted him) and overpaying for mediocre FA's like Clay and Harvin, giving egregious contracts to declining players such as McCoy . Paying a full back 3 million a year. Egregious free agent signings like Chris Williams. Bad trades for Bryce Brown and Mike Williams. Not to mention egregious moves on EJ and Sammy Watkins that have wasted 3 1st round picks. 150 million team cap hit for 2016. Sorry that I don't like how this team is built. Edited October 30, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So we had Whaley who was building a team fo Marrone. for better or worse. right? Then two years in we have Rex Ryan. Who runs the team much differently , has different expectations and possibly needs different skillsets from the players. How does Whaley accommodate that exactly? Because we don't have pitchforks. Seriously though, why does someone need to be blamed at this point for 3-4? There are a number of considerations as to why we are 3-4. Not the least of them is half of the starting offense that Whaley actually built were injured the last two games. I mean come on. Take a deep breath. pranayama baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Some Bills fans like myself want a higher standard. Awesome. You fire Whaley. Bring in some other guy with a different philosophy. Disperse the current talent (and coaching staff) to the four corners of the universe. And end up with 15-20 MORE years of futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fixed Excellent fix. I'm not on the Fire Whaley bandwagon, but how can you argue that Whaley has put together "a hell of a team" when they are 3-4, having lost 3 of 4 at home and losing at a neutral site to one of the two or three worst teams in the league? It seems the team's record speaks far more clearly than everyone's impression of how good the Bills look on paper. In two of those loses they had a MASH unit on the offensive side of the ball... Most teams don't win when their entire right side of the offensive line is out to go along with the number 1 and 2 RB, number 1 and 2 WR, and your number 1 QB. But yeah, let's look at the record in a vacuum... Average drafting at its best (with the exception of one player Darby that I loved when they drafted him) and overpaying for mediocre FA's like Clay and Harvin, giving egregious contracts to declining players such as McCoy . Paying a full back 3 million a year. Egregious free agent signings like Chris Williams. Bad trades for Bryce Brown and Mike Williams. Not to mention egregious moves on EJ and Sammy Watkins that have wasted 3 1st round picks. 150 million team cap hit for 2016. Sorry that I don't like how this team is built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Awesome. You fire Whaley. Bring in some other guy with a different philosophy. Disperse the current talent (and coaching staff) to the four corners of the universe. And end up with 15-20 MORE years of futility. I want a GM that is extrodinary in player evaluation (scouting, advanced scouting) and will build a team from the draft outwards. That mans name for the job IMO is Eliot Wolf!!! Edited October 30, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 LETS CREATE "FIRE DOUG WHALEY" SIGNS DURING OUR NEXT HOME GAME. Thoughts? yeah....that's pretty dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Average drafting at its best (with the exception of one player Darby that I loved when they drafted him) and overpaying for mediocre FA's like Clay and Harvin, giving egregious contracts to declining players such as McCoy . Paying a full back 3 million a year. Egregious free agent signings like Chris Williams. Bad trades for Bryce Brown and Mike Williams. Not to mention egregious moves on EJ and Sammy Watkins that have wasted 3 1st round picks. 150 million team cap hit for 2016. Sorry that I don't like how this team is built. preston brown, miller, kiko, woods, darby, etc. solid drafting. we traded back for ej which was a great move and he nailed the 2nd rounders. Clay is leading the team in receiving 6th in league for te's in yards, 4th in receptions so he's def mediocre. Shady we can reevaluate in a couple years but so far living up to his deal. Brown, williams and williams you're right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I want a GM that is extrodinary in player evaluation (scouting, advanced scouting) and will build a team from the draft outwards. That mans name for the job IMO is Eliot Wolf!!! I think that you are infatuated with the idea of starting fresh, clean slate, from scratch, etc. I get it. I think you are wrong, but I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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