D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 WTH. Why do posts get deleted when you are having a debate and expressing your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Whether or not it's warranted, or the way the league works is immaterial. It's the very definition of conspiracy. A group of people banding together to not call the game fairly but to exact retribution for previous affronts to the rules. It's inarguable. Again, I think the Bills brought it on themselves but surely it is a conspiracy. They, as a group, don't make all calls equal as they happen in front of them, on purpose, for a desired outcome (not the score of the game but the punishment for being jerks before). That's a conspiracy. That's not what confirmation bias is, and there's no evidence that they're "banding together." There's no evidence of them planning anything. When a ref knows you as a dirty, highly penalized, etc etc team, they are going to be subconsciously inclined to call more penalties. They may not know they're doing it. They don't have to be conspiring together for this to happen. That's what confirmation bias is. "I know this team to be dirty, so I think that's a dirty play" is the subconscious thought process. The explanation of the refs conspiring in a huddle to exact retribution is crazy talk. Edited October 27, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I didnt ask that. So you think the refs are just calling them as they see them, and don't ever care one bit that the Bills have been arrogant pricks the whole season? I answered "no". This entire topic and discussion is not new to this season. It's not "payback" by the refs. The Bills were arrogant pricks for only part of the season. Now they have become pitiable shrivelled impotent pricks that refs could ony feel sorry for. And Rex is the team's urologist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I screamed "HOLDING" at the top of my lungs, right after screaming "NO!" on the bs pass interference call. Upon further review, there were at least two Bills being held on the play. We had two touchdowns taken away in the Giants game for bogus calls....one on Urbik, and one on Incognito. Although I believe we lost that game when that guy blew past Bradham. It still bothered me to have two td's nullified by bad calls. A call here, a call there, and we're 5-2. We're just not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Watched it again and still don't see the hold. If people are going to get up in arms about the refs, the Robey play was the one to be angry about. There is freaking holding on virtually every play (in the old school sense of the infraction) and it doesn't usually get called. That's why players do it. GG mentioned the Urbik play. That one was surely iffy, but the irony of that play is that Seantrel Henderson blatantly and inarguably held on it and didn't get called. He literally grabbed the defender's forearm and held it. Again, the Robey play is the only one to get angry about, and I can see that as the product of the Jax coaches planting the seed in the refs' minds that they blew the Graham pick. It stinks, but it's possible: makeup calls are made, and Gilmore appeared to interfere by bodily cutting off the receiver's route, holding him, and causing him to go to the ground. Anyway, the alleged hold on the Jags' final TD is a garden-variety NFL play that only fans of a bad team that consistently loses close games could get angry about. I certainly didn't see anything close to obvious holding, and Hughes wasn't going to get to the qb anyway. Let this one go and complain about the call that actually WAS egregious-- the one on Robey. Joechel's block is the sort of block that happens all of the time, and if the blocker keeps his hands in (which Joeckel did -- and Dog, how high his hands were is irrelevant), it ain't getting called. I screamed "HOLDING" at the top of my lungs, right after screaming "NO!" on the bs pass interference call. Upon further review, there were at least two Bills being held on the play. We had two touchdowns taken away in the Giants game for bogus calls....one on Urbik, and one on Incognito. Although I believe we lost that game when that guy blew past Bradham. It still bothered me to have two td's nullified by bad calls. A call here, a call there, and we're 5-2. We're just not that bad. TC -- you think it's holding, but it isn't, at least according to how it is called. If the hands are inside, they're not calling it. It was holding in the 1960s, but the NFL decided that it was probably a good idea to keep their QBs out of traction and changed the holding rules. Edited October 28, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Forget the refs, who was covering the receiver on that play? Awful coverage. How long is the DB supposed to stick with the guy? Sorry, I don't see much of a hold, but I do see our 'star' DE getting pushed past the QB (again) and letting Bortles roll free to a point where he could deliver the pass. No way Bortles puts that throw where it needs to be from the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Honestly I can handle this missed call much more than all the made calls which suck. A missed call is being human and unable to see everything, to call one that is not there- such as Robey- is arrogance. Basically these officials think they have a duty/right to call what might have happened, not what they saw which is why the NFL has become almost unwatchable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 WTH. Why do posts get deleted when you are having a debate and expressing your opinions? Probably because you didn't do a very good job with the debate and expression parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How long is the DB supposed to stick with the guy? Sorry, I don't see much of a hold, but I do see our 'star' DE getting pushed past the QB (again) and letting Bortles roll free to a point where he could deliver the pass. No way Bortles puts that throw where it needs to be from the pocket. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 That's not what confirmation bias is, and there's no evidence that they're "banding together." There's no evidence of them planning anything. When a ref knows you as a dirty, highly penalized, etc etc team, they are going to be subconsciously inclined to call more penalties. They may not know they're doing it. They don't have to be conspiring together for this to happen. That's what confirmation bias is. "I know this team to be dirty, so I think that's a dirty play" is the subconscious thought process. The explanation of the refs conspiring in a huddle to exact retribution is crazy talk. You're the one that brought up conformation bias. Not me. I didn't say or imply in any way they got in a huddle and decided to make a call. But when they all do it, in a very obvious and predictable way, it's a conspiracy. It's a stupid thing that officials do but it's to be expected and it doesn't happen just to the Bills, and the Bills brought it on themselves, but it's still a coordinated silent agreement between the Refs. Otherwise the head referee would overrule those kinds of calls all the time, or the refs would huddle up and get the call right, not punish the jerks for being jerks. Dave is right. The call to complain about is the Robey call. That kind of missed holding happens all the time, and the Jags made the play, the Bills didn't. I was just explaining what I saw, and think it was a blatant hold, not saying that it was the or even one of the deciding factors. That happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How can you possibly not see the hold on the TD play by Bortles? It's blatant. And all you have to do is see that Hughes has his man beat--this forces a hold from the LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm serious. Don't watch this. Okay, you've been warned: https://twitter.com/RQUINN619/status/659085700617404417 Does anyone else see Hughes kind of ending his fight when Bortles runs past him instead of reversing and going after him full bore? If he did, and the hold became obvious in another direction, maybe it would have been called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How long is the DB supposed to stick with the guy? Sorry, I don't see much of a hold, but I do see our 'star' DE getting pushed past the QB (again) and letting Bortles roll free to a point where he could deliver the pass. No way Bortles puts that throw where it needs to be from the pocket. If he was ever stuck with him, it may be a legit question. He let him go by. The pass was in the air in about 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 You're the one that brought up conformation bias. Not me. I didn't say or imply in any way they got in a huddle and decided to make a call. But when they all do it, in a very obvious and predictable way, it's a conspiracy. It's a stupid thing that officials do but it's to be expected and it doesn't happen just to the Bills, and the Bills brought it on themselves, but it's still a coordinated silent agreement between the Refs. Otherwise the head referee would overrule those kinds of calls all the time, or the refs would huddle up and get the call right, not punish the jerks for being jerks. Dave is right. The call to complain about is the Robey call. That kind of missed holding happens all the time, and the Jags made the play, the Bills didn't. I was just explaining what I saw, and think it was a blatant hold, not saying that it was the or even one of the deciding factors. That happens all the time. If it's a conspiracy, they have to conspire. Do I have to break out a dictionary? You said "A group of people banding together." You obviously believe they are coordinating and all of them are consciously aware of hosing the Bills, and that's nutty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 If it's a conspiracy, they have to conspire. Do I have to break out a dictionary? You said "A group of people banding together." You obviously believe they are coordinating and all of them are consciously aware of hosing the Bills, and that's nutty. They're definitely aware of not giving the Bills the call if there is any doubt. This isn't subconscious. It's been going on for twenty years (not against the Bills, but the payback and not giving players or teams that they deem "don't deserve the call" the call. It's very conscious and happens all the time. It's not a conspiracy against the Bills it's a conspiracy against teams that do what the Bills did this year. It's like two years ago when Patrick Kaleta couldn't go two shifts without getting a penalty because of previous indisgretions. The officials not only hated him but targeted him. He had to completely change his game to stay in the league. It wasn't subconscious it was very conscious. They didn't like him and they called penalties on him for stuff they wouldn't against anyone else. He brought it on himself to some degree but it's still a complete conspiracy without them calling a meeting and telling each other we are going to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 if you dvr'd the game bills last drive....2nd down mccoy gets the first down and for some unknown reason they mark him short. We run sneak- denied then they incomplete pass. Clocks running and maybe a little panic sets in...they spot the ball wrong and it's not caught.....Yes the laundry list is long 78 held all game, all damn game.......and for those who think well they could have called PI and grahams interception....when you over throw a guy by 15 yards its uncatchable and there will be no flag last night baltimore has a player check in mnf shows a replay of him checking in official aknowledges him then throws the flag on the play ????? inept, substandard, unexceptable but the tv ratings are through the roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How can you possibly not see the hold on the TD play by Bortles? It's blatant. And all you have to do is see that Hughes has his man beat--this forces a hold from the LT. It's not holding if you keep your hands inside. I don't know how many ways to say it. It's how the game is officiated, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's not holding if you keep your hands inside. I don't know how many ways to say it. It's how the game is officiated, like it or not. When a guy is running past you and you reach in "inside" it's a blatant penalty if you are holding. You have to be facing a guy straight up and keep your hands inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Is that really a hold? Joeckel kept his visible hand inside and didn't grab his jersey. If you keep your hands inside, you're usually OK. Also, that sort of block seems to happen on virtually every outside edge rush. I didn't think it was too bad. The bad one was Robey. I sort of agree, it's funny, at first I was outraged, but I've just been watching it over and over for like 10 minutes and it's definitely looking less like a hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 keep watching the video... your getting sleepy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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