Dr. Who Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) The fact that our backup QB completed 67% of his passes for 263 yards while throwing a pick, a TD, and running for a TD (while working mostly with the 2nd team wideouts) against an undefeated team just doesn't sound to me like one of our biggest problems. Those are not terrible numbers. People who expected a lot more were unrealistic. I still believe the disdain for EJ is irrational and in some cases vicious. I am dubious that Taylor can stay healthy and play the way he needs to in order to be successful. I'm hoping for the best with these guys, but I'm already looking at the 2016 draft (Kevin Hogan?) Edited October 19, 2015 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Those are not terrible numbers. People who expected a lot more were unrealistic. I still believe the disdain for EJ is irrational and in some cases vicious. I am dubious that Taylor can stay healthy and play the way he needs to in order to be successful. I'm hoping for the best with these guys, but I'm already looking at the 2016 draft (Kevin Hogan?) do you really think that any true bills fan would be disappointed if manuel was wildly successful - as good or better than expected by whaley? this isn't about disdain. it's about a not very good qb. on this, it seems almost everyone interested in the nfl agrees except for the few die hard homers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) A key failure yesterday: the Bills were down 24-14 when they finally got the ball in the second half. They had yet another dumbass penalty on the return that sent them back to the 14. Still, they got two first downs before Robert Woods committed his SECOND holding penalty of the game on first down. Now they had a 1st and 20, which is really difficult to overcome. They completed a couple of passes, but still had to punt in the end. Penalties literally killed them on that possession - one on the kickoff and a hold on a first down play. Cincy ended the game on their next possession, and garbage time was in force. Hard to blame Manuel for any of that, but I'm guessing some will ... The point is, he had NO chance in the second half to mount a comeback outside of overcoming a very difficult down-and-distance & field position situation in the Bills' first possession. After that, the game was over. Edited October 19, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Manuel looked like he was playing scared, just like he always has. 3rd and 12? Let's throw a 3 yard pass over the middle that has a 0% chance of succeeding! He can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, can't hit anyone deep to save his life...he's just plain awful. I don't see how anyone that watched the game thinks anything different. That underthrow INT that was intended for Hogan was beyond awful. The last thing you do on a route like that is underthrow it. I hope he never sees the field again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 We got what most of us expected from EJ yesterday. Against other teams and with a better showing from the defense, it may have been enough to win a game. Other than to rake him over the coals, I see no reason at all to pin this on ourmQB yesterday. It was a total team loss. The offense couldn't make a key play at critical times, our special teams gave them great field position, and our defense couldn't make key stops or generate a take away. I suspect TT or Cassel wouldn't have done any better, all things being equal. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 do you really think that any true bills fan would be disappointed if manuel was wildly successful - as good or better than expected by whaley? this isn't about disdain. it's about a not very good qb. on this, it seems almost everyone interested in the nfl agrees except for the few die hard homers here. You're reading something into my comments that is not there. On the other hand, I don't really give a damn so think whatever you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I personally think he's just always off. His read's are a little to late. The hogan one is a good example of reading that safety and going back shoulder a second earlier. His throws are very often poorly located for receivers. in the dirt or over their heads. His pocket awareness is very inconsistent. He needs a lot of time to be effective when reading the field. But to say that he's the worst QB option is a bit of an overstatement - he definitely has value as a backup for us. Backups aren't good, they'd be starters if they were good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 A key failure yesterday: the Bills were down 24-14 when they finally got the ball in the second half. They had yet another dumbass penalty on the return that sent them back to the 14. Still, they got two first downs before Robert Woods committed his SECOND holding penalty of the game on first down. Now they had a 1st and 20, which is really difficult to overcome. They completed a couple of passes, but still had to punt in the end. Penalties literally killed them on that possession - one on the kickoff and a hold on a first down play. Cincy ended the game on their next possession, and garbage time was in force. Hard to blame Manuel for any of that, but I'm guessing some will ... The point is, he had NO chance in the second half to mount a comeback outside of overcoming a very difficult down-and-distance & field position situation in the Bills' first possession. After that, the game was over. Spot on here, Dave. That possession was critical and we were saying that before Cinci kicked off. An offense simply cannot dictate things when placed in those kinds of holes. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 One thing may be lost in all this, don't know, haven't read the whole thread, is that our offense scored the most points than in the last 3 games. All this against a really good defense, as opposed to 10 vs Giants and 14 vs Tennessee. Our problem is our D. We're not losing games due to ineffective QB play no matter which guys is under center. D needs to step up and the dumb penalties gotta stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 We got what most of us expected from EJ yesterday. Against other teams and with a better showing from the defense, it may have been enough to win a game. Other than to rake him over the coals, I see no reason at all to pin this on ourmQB yesterday. It was a total team loss. The offense couldn't make a key play at critical times, our special teams gave them great field position, and our defense couldn't make key stops or generate a take away. I suspect TT or Cassel wouldn't have done any better, all things being equal. GO BILLS!!! and once again winning or losing yesterdays game is not the point. he just wasn't good enough yesterday or in the vast majority of games he's started to win consistently or even (occasionally) against good teams. he's not going to lead this team over New England with the game on his shoulders. ever. I think the better question, if we are living for the moment, is whether he would have won the titans game last week. we'll never know but i'd put the odds at less than 1:!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 and once again winning or losing yesterdays game is not the point. he just wasn't good enough yesterday or in the vast majority of games he's started to win consistently or even (occasionally) against good teams. he's not going to lead this team over New England with the game on his shoulders. ever. I think the better question, if we are living for the moment, is whether he would have won the titans game last week. we'll never know but i'd put the odds at less than 1:!. Winning and losing yesterday's game is not the point? You mean you would still be ragging on him if we won? Really? Given that it appears he can't overcome his lower body mechanical issues, I am less convinced that he can make it as a long term successful starting QB in this league. I stand by my contention that, given the defense and special teams' abysmal performances yesterday, TT and Cassel wouldn't have made a difference. Not in the least. Total team loss as I said. That's all I have to say on the matter. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 A key failure yesterday: the Bills were down 24-14 when they finally got the ball in the second half. They had yet another dumbass penalty on the return that sent them back to the 14. Still, they got two first downs before Robert Woods committed his SECOND holding penalty of the game on first down. Now they had a 1st and 20, which is really difficult to overcome. They completed a couple of passes, but still had to punt in the end. Penalties literally killed them on that possession - one on the kickoff and a hold on a first down play. Cincy ended the game on their next possession, and garbage time was in force. Hard to blame Manuel for any of that, but I'm guessing some will ... The point is, he had NO chance in the second half to mount a comeback outside of overcoming a very difficult down-and-distance & field position situation in the Bills' first possession. After that, the game was over. Considering how many are blaming Sammy's injury on EJ, yes, the penalties will be his fault as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm still pissed at the conditions in the stadium yesterday. My seat was wet when I sat down! #EJSFAULT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 You stink as a fan of this team. Three years of watching EJ Manuel and you can't spot the improvement, says more about you then it does about EJ. I didn't see it either, so please enlighten me. He still missed wide open receivers and skipped some passes because his footwork was off. He still continually threw underneath on third down and long, knowing that the receiver had no chance of making the first down. He still held the ball way too long and took a sack that resulted in punting from the endzone and a short field for Cinci that resulted in a TD, so please enlighten me on how he is so much better than he was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I see this thread is well on its way to God knows how many pages. 40? For nothing. EJ is not considered a viable prospect by this organization and his K will not be renewed here. The problem for EJ is that I don't think any other organization is interested in him either, as he is generally regarded as a poorly chosen reach by a poorly run organization. At least historically speaking. That would be my guess anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Considering how many are blaming Sammy's injury on EJ, yes, the penalties will be his fault as well. It's EJ's fault vorpma's father was punched in his non-existent kidney, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Manuel looked like he was playing scared, just like he always has. 3rd and 12? Let's throw a 3 yard pass over the middle that has a 0% chance of succeeding! He can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, can't hit anyone deep to save his life...he's just plain awful. I don't see how anyone that watched the game thinks anything different. That underthrow INT that was intended for Hogan was beyond awful. The last thing you do on a route like that is underthrow it. I hope he never sees the field again. While I find this frustrating too, it's just too easy to say without seeing the A22. Maybe EVERYONE else was covered on those plays, so he hit what he could hoping that a playmaker could make a play. Had he forced things long into double coverage and got picked everyone would REALLY be up-in-arms. I get the sentiment, but, and this is just me, I don't know all the facts so I'm not going to make that argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) One thing may be lost in all this, don't know, haven't read the whole thread, is that our offense scored the most points than in the last 3 games. All this against a really good defense, as opposed to 10 vs Giants and 14 vs Tennessee. Our problem is our D. We're not losing games due to ineffective QB play no matter which guys is under center. D needs to step up and the dumb penalties gotta stop. I had mentioned earlier that the team (with the lousy EJ) scored 3 TD's yesterday as compared to a total of 3 TD's and a FG in the prior two games with Taylor. Edited October 19, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Manuel looked like he was playing scared, just like he always has. 3rd and 12? Let's throw a 3 yard pass over the middle that has a 0% chance of succeeding! He can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, can't hit anyone deep to save his life...he's just plain awful. I don't see how anyone that watched the game thinks anything different. That underthrow INT that was intended for Hogan was beyond awful. The last thing you do on a route like that is underthrow it. I hope he never sees the field again. Yawn. Give me a real take. Oh he was playing scared? How do you quantify that? Oh, he always plays scared? So he's never played well or won any games? Both QB's look pretty average in this offense. Of course I'll give the nod to Tyrod thus far, but EJ's had a single game against a top 5 D and looked fine. Why don't you hyper analyze every single pass from the titans game and get back to me. It's not EJ it's not Tyrod, there are much larger issues on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I had mentioned earlier that the team (with the lousy EJ) scored 3 TD's yesterday as compared to a total of 3 TD's and a FG in the prior two games with Taylor. Thank you Nova. I see I wasn't the only one who noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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