YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Just once, I'd like to see Bills players stop saying we need to simplify the defense and or offense. Other teams play complex schemes. Look at New England and all of the disguised fronts they present. Nobody ever complains on their team. Belichek would dump them in a river. This incesant whining is getting so freaking old.and the Dolphins players are complaining their scheme is too simple! Lol. The only one who is whining is Marcel though if you read the article. He doesn't so much have a way with words. Like I said, I will trust the defensive coaches with playoff wins and SB rings over the players who have never won anything at this level. Sorry. We will see how it plays out. That's for the front 4. The linebackers need to nut up and play better. Especially Bradham who at this point I would let walk and replace in the draft. Edited October 8, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That can tend to happen when teams are throwing the ball in less than 2 seconds. Folks need to understand that NFL OCs are going to adapt to what this team does well: rush the passer. That's going to result in teams drilling their QBs to get the ball out as fast as humanly possible. As long as the back 7 plays tight and tackles well, the defense will be fine. The CBs have been very, very good. The LBs and safeties need to be more consistent. Agreed. People seem to ignore how much of a tactical advantage it is that our front four forces OCs to drastically alter their passing schemes. Once our LBs and safeties get on the same page and start jumping all this short stuff, this defense will resemble Ryan's dominant defenses of the past. The front four may not be getting the glamour stats, but they are impacting opposing offenses in a big way GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 When your players are better than the opponents, it's best to keep the scheme simple and let them play. As Marcel says, he just wants to be cut loose. If your scheme isn't enhancing the play of your players, you need to rethink your scheme. Schemes should only get fancy when you don't have the talent to outplay the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Can our NFL OC adapt to teams "rushing the passer?" I'm sorry bandit, I respect your opinion, but I vehemently disagree. If the best (or second best) defensive coach in the NFL and the best defensive unit in the NFL can be figured out and rendered ineffective by 2 out of their 4 first opponents, it's not "fine." Something is wrong. Rendered ineffective by 2 opponents? Try one opponent. The Pats** and that's how it's always been, even last year. Missed tackles and penalties doesn't mean a defensive unit was figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Agreed. People seem to ignore how much of a tactical advantage it is that our front four forces OCs to drastically alter their passing schemes. Once our LBs and safeties get on the same page and start jumping all this short stuff, this defense will resemble Ryan's dominant defenses of the past. The front four may not be getting the glamour stats, but they are impacting opposing offenses in a big way GO BILLS!!! That brings up an interesting question: why aren't the LBs and safeties sitting down on the short stuff? Is it because Rex/Thurman don't trust them to do so just yet? Is it because of communication or inexperience with the scheme? Or perhaps in a more worrisome scenario: are the LBs and safeties simply not capable of moving or reacting quickly enough to fill the short zones? You'd know better than I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) That brings up an interesting question: why aren't the LBs and safeties sitting down on the short stuff? Is it because Rex/Thurman don't trust them to do so just yet? Is it because of communication or inexperience with the scheme? Or perhaps in a more worrisome scenario: are the LBs and safeties simply not capable of moving or reacting quickly enough to fill the short zones? You'd know better than I would. Hard to tell really but I'm sure having Rambo out there has something to do with it. Apparently on the TD to Jennings and the TD to Randle he was in the wrong spot. They've effectively only had the starting safeties out there for 2 quarters, I believe. Graham missed all of game 1 and A. Williams went out in the 2nd QTR of game 2, I believe. Edited October 8, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That can tend to happen when teams are throwing the ball in less than 2 seconds. Folks need to understand that NFL OCs are going to adapt to what this team does well: rush the passer. That's going to result in teams drilling their QBs to get the ball out as fast as humanly possible. As long as the back 7 plays tight and tackles well, the defense will be fine. The CBs have been very, very good. The LBs and safeties need to be more consistent. But isn't that the crux of the article? jw came out with nearly an identical piece yesterday, too. Both reporters quoted Ryan, "But it's just we're not there yet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 But isn't that the crux of the article? jw came out with nearly an identical piece yesterday, too. Both reporters quoted Ryan, "But it's just we're not there yet." And I think the point a lot of posters have made is, even last year at this time after 4 games, the Bills defense that became an elite unit, "were not there yet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 To me it would be much scarier if Rex said "We're here!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Almost like all that posturing causes the Dline to be late getting off the ball, they seem a step late imo Perhaps quarterbacks like Brady and Manning are a "step" early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That brings up an interesting question: why aren't the LBs and safeties sitting down on the short stuff? Is it because Rex/Thurman don't trust them to do so just yet? Is it because of communication or inexperience with the scheme? Or perhaps in a more worrisome scenario: are the LBs and safeties simply not capable of moving or reacting quickly enough to fill the short zones? You'd know better than I would. From where I'm sitting, it's a little bit of both. Regarding the safeties, I think the loss of Williams has had an impact. I think our safeties are playing a bit too deep at times and that tells me the coaches are a bit leery. The LBs have had me concerned for a while when it comes to pass D. We were exposed by Tannehill last year in Miami on shallow crossing routes that our LBs were too slow in reacting to. I think it was natural for people to expect the D to simply pick up where it left off, but new scheme implementation seldom happens like that. Like last year at the exact same point in the season, we have shown glimpses, but we weren't the dominant defense we turned into later on. While Carucci and others point to sacks and gross yards as indicators of regression, there are more pertinent metrics that suggest we are actually playing better as a D unit after four games this year. And regarding the comments from Dareus and others cited as n the article, I seem to recall several defensive players saying the exact opposite in pre-season; that the scheme provided so much flexibility in ways to create havoc. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 From where I'm sitting, it's a little bit of both. Regarding the safeties, I think the loss of Williams has had an impact. I think our safeties are playing a bit too deep at times and that tells me the coaches are a bit leery. The LBs have had me concerned for a while when it comes to pass D. We were exposed by Tannehill last year in Miami on shallow crossing routes that our LBs were too slow in reacting to. I think it was natural for people to expect the D to simply pick up where it left off, but new scheme implementation seldom happens like that. Like last year at the exact same point in the season, we have shown glimpses, but we weren't the dominant defense we turned into later on. While Carucci and others point to sacks and gross yards as indicators of regression, there are more pertinent metrics that suggest we are actually playing better as a D unit after four games this year. And regarding the comments from Dareus and others cited as n the article, I seem to recall several defensive players saying the exact opposite in pre-season; that the scheme provided so much flexibility in ways to create havoc. GO BILLS!!! They did, and they still are. They are just saying it was not an overnight process of running smoothly. I also expect that could be additional quotes left out so that the narrative was reached for the article. Dareus was the only one who sounded as if he was negative, and he had said the same a couple months back. I don't give his words a ton of credence though to be honest. He is not a strong communicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 They did, and they still are. They are just saying it was not an overnight process of running smoothly. I also expect that could be additional quotes left out so that the narrative was reached for the article. Dareus was the only one who sounded as if he was negative, and he had said the same a couple months back. I don't give his words a ton of credence though to be honest. He is not a strong communicator. Dareus is not the most eloquent speaker, I'll just leave it at that. This scheme could actually make him a better player once it starts becoming more instinctive for everyone in it. In the meantime, he is right about one thing, he can't sack a garbage can in less than two seconds. On the bright side, an offense can't execute most of it's passing scheme in less than two seconds, either. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Bring back Schwartz and its all better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think it will, over time, be fixed. I'd like it to be sooner rather than later. Agreed, but with one caveat: it needs to start this week against Tennessee. They can't afford to fall to 2-3 by letting a perennial doormat featuring a rookie QB rack up points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 So when you look at the stats, they don't look that different. That begs the question: are the differences significant? Just looking at this year's stats...the difference in points given up is the difference between 9th and 16th in the league. The difference in pass yards per attempt is the difference between 6th and 20th in the league. Most of those are very significant differences in this league. Of greater concern at this point, I feel a clear blueprint has been shown in two games against quality veteran QB: 1) Make offensive substitutions and adjustments to force the D to react, especially effective with crowd noise hindering communication 2) Keep 7 men in to block and look for the coverage breakdown 3) Get the ball out quickly I could be suffering from retroactive blindness, but last year after 4 games I don't recall feeling that the blueprint for how to beat us is out there, and not feeling comfortable that we had the adjustments to counter it. The concern I have about Carucci's article is that Rex, coming in, said he didn't run a scheme, he'd adjust his scheme to fit his players. The take-away I have from that article is that Rex is, in fact, not doing that; he's asking the DL to change what they were so effective at, and running a scheme that may call for a different style of linebacker. That's exactly what he said he WOULDN'T do. I disagree a bit. I think the pre-snap movement and trickery drove Tannehill nuts and bothered Luck. The problem is, when you get to a quality veteran QB, no, it's not fooling them. Any scheme which has Kyle Williams dropping back into coverage is a Bad Scheme. You are exactly right that we aren't rotating our DL Good stuff, and I agree. A few thoughts here. Its OK to be concerned about the Bills defense so far because most of us were expecting greatness, and not excuses! Rex Ryan has a pedigree of building top defenses, and his defense usually play great against Tom Brady. In his six years as the Jets HC he never allowed 466 passing yards to ole Tom! Brady didn't just suddenly start getting the ball out quickly, as he has been running the same offense his entire career. Rex Ryan admitted he made a mistake with his defense on Brady, as he went to a soft nickle coverage a lot in that game. Instead of getting heavy pressure on Brady he decided to try and have his DB's play a 10-15 yard cushion off the line. Because of that mistake his defense suddenly jumped to 31st in total defense, and 32nd against the pass. Those stats changed this last game to 22nd in total defense, but still 29th in passing defense. Those stats matter!! Just like the Bills playing against the #1 defense against the run in the Giants and they held true to those stats by holding the Bills to a 2.3 ypc avg. I suppose the anti stat fans will say that the 24 rushes for only 55 yards doesn't matter, 29th in pass defense after four games doesn't matter because this excuse, that excuse, another excuse, and BTW excuse, excuse, excuse! Is there still time for Ryan to field a Buffalo Bills top five defense this year, you bet! Will they? We honestly don't know, and if he continues to spew this crud that his defenses can't stop a QB with a quick release. News flash, Ryan Fitzpatrick has a very quick release too, and Ryan smoked Fitz when he was the Bills QB 2x in 2010, 2x in 2011, 1x in 2012. The Bills entire offense under Gailey was predicated on the quick, short pass, and guess what. He is back in the division as the Jets OC with Fitz as his QB!! Then, no other defense has played Tom Brady better then Rex Ryan from 2009-2014 in 2013 In both games the Jets lost by 3 points each. In 2014 each game was lost by one point, and two points. The last game against the Jets in 2014 in week 16 Brady didn't even pass for 200 yards. He went 25 of 35 for 182 yards-1 TD-1 INT. Rex Ryan himself has said he has never had this amount of talent on a defense, so freaking pardon me If I'm not happy about being 29th in pass defense after four games. The problem is not in the defensive secondary because they have played really well from what I've seen. The problem looks to be lack of D line rotation along with far to much dropping into coverage instead of finding different ways to get to the QB, and the penalties!! JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 From where I'm sitting, it's a little bit of both. Regarding the safeties, I think the loss of Williams has had an impact. I think our safeties are playing a bit too deep at times and that tells me the coaches are a bit leery. The LBs have had me concerned for a while when it comes to pass D. We were exposed by Tannehill last year in Miami on shallow crossing routes that our LBs were too slow in reacting to. I think it was natural for people to expect the D to simply pick up where it left off, but new scheme implementation seldom happens like that. Like last year at the exact same point in the season, we have shown glimpses, but we weren't the dominant defense we turned into later on. While Carucci and others point to sacks and gross yards as indicators of regression, there are more pertinent metrics that suggest we are actually playing better as a D unit after four games this year. And regarding the comments from Dareus and others cited as n the article, I seem to recall several defensive players saying the exact opposite in pre-season; that the scheme provided so much flexibility in ways to create havoc. GO BILLS!!! I think that Rex/Thurman can help the back 7 if they trust them to play their assignments a bit more. I realize fully well that they'll be exposing themselves to bigger plays more often, but if they want to limit the short, quick stuff that the better teams are starting to rely upon, that's an adjustment they can make to do it now. That said, I'll be very interested to see what happens over the next 3-4 games, as players get more comfortable in the scheme. Most of all though, let's get the tackling and penalties fixed immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Rex is going to need to rework the defense over time. It'll get better this year but not that much better. Ultimately we'll send Kyle Williams packing after this year, draft a bunch of CBs and LBs...and end up the chaos Rex D everyone knows and loves. But right now, and for the rest of this year, we'll be above average but not top like we wanted. It's one of the main reasons we may not make the playoffs. We're too crazy on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Rex is going to need to rework the defense over time. It'll get better this year but not that much better. Ultimately we'll send Kyle Williams packing after this year, draft a bunch of CBs and LBs...and end up the chaos Rex D everyone knows and loves. But right now, and for the rest of this year, we'll be above average but not top like we wanted. It's one of the main reasons we may not make the playoffs. We're too crazy on D. Believe it or not Kyle Williams is getting a positive grade dropping into coverage, and Jerry Hughes did manage to break up a pass to Rob Gronkowski. The players are fine, and its the scheme along with the penalties that needs to change IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Believe it or not Kyle Williams is getting a positive grade dropping into coverage, and Jerry Hughes did manage to break up a pass to Rob Gronkowski. The players are fine, and its the scheme along with the penalties that needs to change IMO You're confusing me. You say the scheme is bad but you point to two positives of the scheme. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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