John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 It was my opinion when the Bills got McCoy that Spiller at New Orleans would outgain him for this season. A reasonable fan opinion.....as many thought the saints were a tailored made scheme for Spiller Unfortunately.....Spiller cannot seem to stay healthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 It's only a stretch if you're looking at stats rather than the games themselves. Last year's Eagles' offense had a lot of issues they did not have Chip's first year. Mainly up front (injuries early) and Kelly's maddening unwillingness to use anyone but Sproles in the red zone. Maddening? Sproles lead all RB's in yards per touch. By a lot. And getting touches in the redone isn't going to do much for your yards per carry or yards per touch. Those are the hard yards. So in a sense McCoy's numbers may actually have been inflated. And say what you want about PFF blocking grades but the Eagles were first and the Bills were worst. The Bills grade sure seemed pretty accurate to the eyeball test, did it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Ignoring those who disagree with you is a sure sign of a closed mind. More feeble-minded than closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Maddening? Sproles lead all RB's in yards per touch. By a lot. And getting touches in the redone isn't going to do much for your yards per carry or yards per touch. Those are the hard yards. So in a sense McCoy's numbers may actually have been inflated. And say what you want about PFF blocking grades but the Eagles were first and the Bills were worst. The Bills grade sure seemed pretty accurate to the eyeball test, did it not? Again, stats only tell you so much. Go watch the games, they're all online. You'll see with your own eyes. Chip Kelly and the early injuries to the line were the primary factors for the entire running game struggling early. When they got healthy, McCoy's numbers were well above average -- enough so to finish third in the league in rushing despite a sloth like start to the season. Those numbers could have been, and should have been, more impressive if not for Kelly's maddening substitution patterns in the game. Just when McCoy would get into a rhythm, he'd get the hook. Happened a lot, most frequently in the red zone. Edited October 11, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Again, stats only tell you so much. Go watch the games, they're all online. You'll see with your own eyes. Chip Kelly and the early injuries to the line were the primary factors for the entire running game struggling early. When they got healthy, McCoy's numbers were well above average -- enough so to finish third in the league in rushing despite a sloth like start to the season. Those numbers could have been, and should have been, more impressive if not for Kelly's maddening substitution patterns in the game. Just when McCoy would get into a rhythm, he'd get the hook. Happened a lot, most frequently in the red zone. Why is Philly so much worse than last year? Their rushing numbers are down over a full yard per carry so far this year. Whatever decline started last year has continued well into this year. Is it injuries? Or do they miss McCoy that much? Seriously though, McCoy's style is just not Kelly's cup of tea. Never has been. Then again, it would appear Kelly still doesn't have the RB he prefers given the anemic performance this year. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Again, stats only tell you so much. Go watch the games, they're all online. You'll see with your own eyes. Chip Kelly and the early injuries to the line were the primary factors for the entire running game struggling early. When they got healthy, McCoy's numbers were well above average -- enough so to finish third in the league in rushing despite a sloth like start to the season. Those numbers could have been, and should have been, more impressive if not for Kelly's maddening substitution patterns in the game. Just when McCoy would get into a rhythm, he'd get the hook. Happened a lot, most frequently in the red zone. McCoy was good for 4.2 yards per rush........Sproles was running for 5.8 per rush. I'm not a fantasy player and I don't really have guys I want to put up numbers over other players........so I guess it just seems pretty obvious why Sproles was getting some carries at the expense of McCoy. Not that 312 carries and almost 400 touches are any kind of snub. Let's not forget that McCoy had the second most carries in the NFL and the next closest to him was 22 carries less......which is well over a games worth of carries for a starting RB. He got A TON of opportunities and when you handle the ball that much you are what your numbers say you are. Said it before, this is basically standard OP for declining RB's, When Thurman Thomas went into decline we started to hear about him not getting enough carries to get in a rhythm and how he wasn't feeling totally healthy and this wait for that comfort zone dragged on a few seasons before people accepted that he was what he was. The fact is that RB's with declining ypc/ypt numbers CAUSE a lack of rhythm and being healthy and explosive are not things you can wait around for, it's part of the every week job of a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Why is Philly so much worse than last year? Their rushing numbers are down over a full yard per carry so far this year. Whatever decline started last year has continued well into this year. Is it injuries? Or do they miss McCoy that much? Seriously though, McCoy's style is just not Kelly's cup of tea. Never has been. Then again, it would appear Kelly still doesn't have the RB he prefers given the anemic performance this year. GO BILLS!!! More than a few observers who looked at Philly's OL last year said that it was made to look better than it was because of Shady. And given the way Murray has looked so far, that seems to be looking like a correct observation. But Kelly not only went out and signed Murray, he also gave him the deal the Bills gave Shady, plus had to eat $3.4M from Shady's old deal. So maybe Kelly doesn't know what he wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 More than a few observers who looked at Philly's OL last year said that it was made to look better than it was because of Shady. And given the way Murray has looked so far, that seems to be looking like a correct observation. But Kelly not only went out and signed Murray, he also gave him the deal the Bills gave Shady, plus had to eat $3.4M from Shady's old deal. So maybe Kelly doesn't know what he wants? And yet PFF graded them the best run blocking OL in the NFL despite Shady's average per rush numbers. There are several factors for their decline this year, not the least of which is getting rid of Evan Mathis.....one of the top interior lineman in the NFL. But as we Bills fans know.....guards don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 .....so I guess it just seems pretty obvious why Sproles was getting some carries at the expense of McCoy. Again, it's really easy to draw that conclusion when you're just looking at the stats without the context of the games themselves. It wasn't that Sproles was getting "some" carries, McCoy wasn't going to carry the ball every down (and won't in Buffalo when he's healthy). It was the timing of when Kelly was taking Shady out that was infuriating -- it stalled more drives than it helped, which you can't see just by looking at the stats. Sproles is a good back, no one is saying he isn't. But if he was truly the best red zone option, he would have lead the league in TDs last year based on the number of opportunities he got compared to McCoy inside the 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 And yet PFF graded them the best run blocking OL in the NFL despite Shady's average per rush numbers. There are several factors for their decline this year, not the least of which is getting rid of Evan Mathis.....one of the top interior lineman in the NFL. But as we Bills fans know.....guards don't matter. PFF also said Aaron Rodgers graded in the negative for his 5 TD 0 INT 333 yard game against the Chefs. And Evan Mathis could barely find a team, took a 1-year almost $3M deal, and is playing poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) It seems to me that we have a 27+ year old RB with a lot of mileage on the tires who a) is averaging 3.4 ypc and b) can't find the field despite a massive contract extension. What am I missing here? Also, people do realize that he's likely to be less good next year, right? Edited October 11, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) PFF also said Aaron Rodgers graded in the negative for his 5 TD 0 INT 333 yard game against the Chefs. And Evan Mathis could barely find a team, took a 1-year almost $3M deal, and is playing poorly. speaking of Mathis, that's the problem with tying up so much cap space on an RB that's not even playing. We could have signed Mathis @ guard (miller is OK, but certainly not on Mathis level), and for OT easily picked up Barksdale or Parnell in FA. Really not happy what Im seeing especially @ RT. Put that killer line together and focus on team average YPC (not just one back), and also improve QB play. Edited October 11, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Who is more injury prone - McCoy or Alonso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Going into his 3rd season he'll be 29 with ~ 2000 carries (assuming he plays the majority of games this year and next). I'm curious how many RBs have been successful, much less dominant, at that age with that kind of mileage. Marshall Faulk and Ladanian Tomlinson were both productive at that point in their careers, but neither was special at that point, and those are arguably the two greatest backs of the last 15 years. If we get the level of production from McCoy that those guys did in their age 27, 28, and 29 seasons that would be great. But if I had to bet on it I'd say he's got about a 16 month shelf life. It's hard for a runner like him to thrive without that elite quickness, and that's usually one of the first things to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Who is more injury prone - McCoy or Alonso? The answer is Sammy Watkins. He's had like 5-6 DIFFERENT nagging injuries in like 13 months. But I wonder if this additional 3-4 week wait for McCoy might just materialize into an IR situation at some point. I don't think the Bills are exactly thrilled with McCoy for a number of reasons....demanding a new deal, behaving poorly in the offseason, getting hurt even though he was handled with kid gloves in preseason and then making the bad decision to play with a bad hamstring and making it worse........... and if somehow one of the reserve RB's/waiver/trade pickups over next few weeks turns into a steady producer.........and RB's are still the most likely players to emerge as producers from nowhere......then they could decide to pull the plug on his season at some point. The 4-5 games without him will cushion the blow with the media/fanbase if they have to call it a day on his 2014. But then it may get ugly between Shady and the Bills. I do expect Rex to reach a boiling point with some of these characters he's assembled if they aren't winning. The egg on his face has to be infuriating, especially when an old retread like Wade Phillips can come in and transition his D seamlessly while he's gotta make excuses for his and his playmakers on O aren't helping to cover his asss. Edited October 11, 2015 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 The answer is Sammy Watkins. He's had like 5-6 DIFFERENT nagging injuries in like 13 months. But I wonder if this additional 3-4 week wait for McCoy might just materialize into an IR situation at some point. I don't think the Bills are exactly thrilled with McCoy for a number of reasons....demanding a new deal, behaving poorly in the offseason, getting hurt even though he was handled with kid gloves in preseason and then making the bad decision to play with a bad hamstring and making it worse........... and if somehow one of the reserve RB's/waiver/trade pickups over next few weeks turns into a steady producer.........and RB's are still the most likely players to emerge as producers from nowhere......then they could decide to pull the plug on his season at some point. The 4-5 games without him will cushion the blow with the media/fanbase if they have to call it a day on his 2014. But then it may get ugly between Shady and the Bills. I do expect Rex to reach a boiling point with some of these characters he's assembled if they aren't winning. The egg on his face has to be infuriating, especially when an old retread like Wade Phillips can come in and transition his D seamlessly while he's gotta make excuses for his and his playmakers on O aren't helping to cover his asss. You make some salient points about the D; I do think you're overstating their ineffectiveness. And as you know, Wade Phillips' D is noted for being very simplistic in its approach; one of the main reasons that kubiak wanted him in a win-now environment. Rex's D is quite the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 You make some salient points about the D; I do think you're overstating their ineffectiveness. And as you know, Wade Phillips' D is noted for being very simplistic in its approach; one of the main reasons that kubiak wanted him in a win-now environment. Rex's D is quite the opposite Which is why his judgement as a HC looks very suspect and he appears married to a system. That's not uncommon.....Schwartz actually came in and faced with media questions about whether he would mess up their pass rush that excelled under Pettine......he outright lied and claimed he wasn't going to play his wide 9.....and then played it pretty much exclusively. But the difference was that the talent fit Schwartz system better. If Ryan wasn't going to put his DL in better position to make plays they would have been better off keeping the heady Searcy than giving out big DL contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Depending on todays result, this season could turn ugly fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Which is why his judgement as a HC looks very suspect and he appears married to a system. That's not uncommon.....Schwartz actually came in and faced with media questions about whether he would mess up their pass rush that excelled under Pettine......he outright lied and claimed he wasn't going to play his wide 9.....and then played it pretty much exclusively. But the difference was that the talent fit Schwartz system better. If Ryan wasn't going to put his DL in better position to make plays they would have been better off keeping the heady Searcy than giving out big DL contracts. While I think the point about playing the DEs wider is noteworthy, I think it's worth allowing Rex more than 4 games to see how the players adapt. Different doesn't always mean worse...over time it could mean better. That's no guarantee for sure, but the potential is certainly there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 While I think the point about playing the DEs wider is noteworthy, I think it's worth allowing Rex more than 4 games to see how the players adapt. Different doesn't always mean worse...over time it could mean better. That's no guarantee for sure, but the potential is certainly there IMO. May i suggest, that Rex is still getting to know the players and vice versa. Ryan is an intelligent man and his coaching knowledge is near elite for more than one reason. This is chess not checkers, the adjustments are not always obvious right away. All 22 helps me realize that often times Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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