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Fred Says Whaley Dishonest With Him


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Some people conveniently miss nuance - like quotes around words - as a strategy to advance their interests. Those whom they represent encourage these tactics to create false dichotomies that favor their narrative. Pretty sleazy stuff, yet fitting in a case such as this when the principle has acted in the sleaziest of fashions.

 

 

This stuff is priceless...how long have you worked on this shtick? It's good!

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#roguegate timeline:

 

1)Whaley cuts Fred without telling anyone. He went rogue!

 

2)Actually he did clear it with the owner but not the coaches. Still rogue!

 

3) Actually it was only some of the coaches. Still kind of rogue.

 

4) Actually it was just the sales rep for M&T bank who didn't know.

 

:doh:

:lol:

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See above, it was your wording, not mine.

 

And again, I now know never to take you seriously.

 

 

Yes, PR firms hire people to flood message boards. This is true.

 

However, I'd like to think that anyone that isn't 100% acluistic would click on poster's names and see how long they've been members of the boards, and then engage their brain in order to draw a conclusion as to whether they've been recently hired to shill.

 

Then again, I'm always giving people too much credit for thinking.

If anything much of the Whaley outrage seems to be coming from posters with less than a hundred posts.
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Yes, PR firms hire people to flood message boards. This is true.

 

However, I'd like to think that anyone that isn't 100% acluistic would click on poster's names and see how long they've been members of the boards, and then engage their brain in order to draw a conclusion as to whether they've been recently hired to shill.

 

Then again, I'm always giving people too much credit for thinking.

that we have progressed to "anyone that disagrees with me has been paid to lie" is an exciting development in the discussion.

 

Well...we can now add NoSaint to the list of shills

 

Welcome!

 

:beer:

did you run this all by football ops? or have you gone #fullwhaley in revealing the list? Edited by NoSaint
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My take on "rogue" is that Whaley was the only one who really had a thing against Jackson. Who knows why that was. Could have been personal. FJ's remark suggests this. Whaley wanted to cut him preseason, but the Pegs seem to have nixed that. He finally wore them down and the owners went back into "owner mode" and signed off to cover him. As for age, he has fewer NFL carries than McCoy, who is 27. Fred is not a burner but he was still the best pass blocker and always fell forward for yardage, unlike our other backs (even with the crappy OL design last year).

CJ is gone. The others move forward when they run the ball as well. And the carries thing is overblown. Fred is slower and more injury prone and cheaper. The other backs they are keeping are faster, have much fewer carries, and cheaper. I love Fred for many reasons but I do not find this move to be out of the norm in the league. Edited by YoloinOhio
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If anything much of the Whaley outrage seems to be coming from posters with less than a hundred posts.

 

You noticed that too, huh?

 

that we have progressed to "anyone that disagrees with me has been paid to lie" is an exciting development in the discussion.

did you run this all by football ops? or have you gone #fullwhaley in revealing the list?

 

I'm a shill and can do what I want :lol:

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Here is the entire timeline of events, big and small, that led to the abrupt releasing of Fred Jackson, M&T Bank not being communicated with, and football ops and administration not being consulted and told.

 

1. Karlos Williams was better than they thought.

2. Whaley and Rex and Roman talked about that.

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So I know Brown has a very high exposure fumble last year but he has otherwise looked really good. McKelvin fumbled a punt in that game also. I don't know why people hate Brown so much. I personally have questioned whether he has the "heart" to succeed as a NFL RB - simply because I don't know. We never hear from him. It may sound like a little thing but I think it's important to have an edge, passion on the field. I do see it with Karlos. Anyway I think Brown looked good... Not sure why he is always brought up with such bitterness around here.

Edited by YoloinOhio
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Here is the entire timeline of events, big and small, that led to the abrupt releasing of Fred Jackson, M&T Bank not being communicated with, and football ops and administration not being consulted and told.

 

1. Karlos Williams was better than they thought.

2. Whaley and Rex and Roman talked about that.

3. Karlos Williams cap hit is about 20% of Fred's.

4. Whaley makes tough decision but keeps a good player and saves money for future signings thus fulfilling his role as GM.

Yours are perfect but I just had to add 3 and 4 for my own sanity.

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If anything much of the Whaley outrage seems to be coming from posters with less than a hundred posts.

 

Not really. I am one of those that are a tad skeptical. Dave McBride, a regular is also expressing unhappiness.

I am against (1) Fred being cut because he is better than, at least, Bryce Brown, who has done little since getting here. Even if I ignore the fumbling issue (2) The way it was done. I trust FredJ because he has never dissed the FO in the media before.

 

So far, the company line was that Ryan and Whaley are lock step regarding personnel decisions and the direction of the team. If Whaley , in fact, circumvented Ryan, it plays against this narrative.

 

Don't get me wrong, Whaley has done a great job with the roster so far (Except for QB). But we have to be objective when things appear suspicious. So far I see: bringing on players with past issues, possible continued mismanaging of the QB situation (does Cassel really have to be cut ?), unceremoniously getting rid of a locker room leader, fan favorite, on-field cheerleader. There is nothing wrong with pointing out what appears less than ideal.

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Here's a question. I was not on this board when Thurman was cut. Was the reaction the same? I would guess not, because everyone knew it was time. This is different. FJ was cut when most of our backfield is injured. We are told they will be fine, but we haven't even been told what Karlos's problem is. I'm just not buying everything I hear from official sources. I think the Bills are better with FJ this year. I don't know about next year, but I think this move will not strengthen the team, especially on passing downs.

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Not really. I am one of those that are a tad skeptical. Dave McBride, a regular is also expressing unhappiness.

I am against (1) Fred being cut because he is better than, at least, Bryce Brown, who has done little since getting here. Even if I ignore the fumbling issue (2) The way it was done. I trust FredJ because he has never dissed the FO in the media before.

 

So far, the company line was that Ryan and Whaley are lock step regarding personnel decisions and the direction of the team. If Whaley , in fact, circumvented Ryan, it plays against this narrative.

 

Don't get me wrong, Whaley has done a great job with the roster so far (Except for QB). But we have to be objective when things appear suspicious. So far I see: bringing on players with past issues, possible continued mismanaging of the QB situation (does Cassel really have to be cut ?), unceremoniously getting rid of a locker room leader, fan favorite, on-field cheerleader. There is nothing wrong with pointing out what appears less than ideal.

I'm not sure, other than his pass blocking (which isn't as critical this year with the mobile QB and improved OL, plus McCoy being on field for 3rd downs) that he is better than Brown. If they even keep Brown. Why do you think so? I love Fred, but brown has looked really good.

 

Ultimately I think Karlos is his replacement but still wondering.

Here's a question. I was not on this board when Thurman was cut. Was the reaction the same? I would guess not, because everyone knew it was time. This is different. FJ was cut when most of our backfield is injured. We are told they will be fine, but we haven't even been told what Karlos's problem is. I'm just not buying everything I hear from official sources. I think the Bills are better with FJ this year. I don't know about next year, but I think this move will not strengthen the team, especially on passing downs.

they are not required to tell us about Karlos's medical procedure, just as they weren't required to tell us about Glenn's illness last year. They told us his timetable for return, that's all that's necessary (and standard).

 

McCoy isn't Spiller. He will be on the field on passing downs. This is a good thing.

Edited by YoloinOhio
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Not really. I am one of those that are a tad skeptical. Dave McBride, a regular is also expressing unhappiness.

I am against (1) Fred being cut because he is better than, at least, Bryce Brown, who has done little since getting here. Even if I ignore the fumbling issue (2) The way it was done. I trust FredJ because he has never dissed the FO in the media before.

 

So far, the company line was that Ryan and Whaley are lock step regarding personnel decisions and the direction of the team. If Whaley , in fact, circumvented Ryan, it plays against this narrative.

 

Don't get me wrong, Whaley has done a great job with the roster so far (Except for QB). But we have to be objective when things appear suspicious. So far I see: bringing on players with past issues, possible continued mismanaging of the QB situation (does Cassel really have to be cut ?), unceremoniously getting rid of a locker room leader, fan favorite, on-field cheerleader. There is nothing wrong with pointing out what appears less than ideal.

 

The very telling difference, Fan, is that there are those that are able to express themselves genuinely on many different topics, and then there are those that totally fly off the handle about everything.

 

I may not totally agree with your take, but I have no problem understanding where you're coming from with it.

 

Massive difference from certain others.

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I'm not sure, other than his pass blocking (which isn't as critical this year with the mobile QB and improved OL, plus McCoy being on field for 3rd downs) that he is better than Brown. If they even keep Brown. Why do you think so? I love Fred, but brown has looked really good.

 

Ultimately I think Karlos is his replacement but still wondering.

 

Fred's energy on the field can inspire the team. He has proven to be superior at pass blocking. he has consistently keyed the offense through tough runs, first downs when badly needed. Fans love his on-field and off-field attitude and character. Brown has not shown that yet. In some areas, he never will.

 

Karlos is totally unproven. He may turn out to be Barry Sanders or Trent Richardson.

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Kirby, I respect your views very much, but I just don't see this as being a 'risk your job' event. And if it is, T-Pegs is no less mercurial than Ralph and the only difference the franchise has now is a bigger checkbook to play with.

 

No one can be happy when these kind of hard realities butt up against "fandamonium," but it's the nature of the GM job responsibilities. Ask any GM in the league what they dislike the most about the role and they'll tell you it's making decisions like this.

 

But whether it's Belichick, Newsome,Thompson ("hey Brett, we're sorry but...") or our own Battling Bill Polian back in the day, they do happen. And the organization moves on.

 

The only ire I have for this is the way Tweedle Dee and Dumb (TG and the Buckster) are playing it out. They get the benefit of hiding behind anonymous 'sources' that could be Fred, his agent or the fly on the wall in the OBD men's room. TG in particular, who's only role at the Snooze appears to be 'agitator' and immature Twitter empresario...

Just to be clear I do not think that the move to replace Fred is like dealing away a young Andrew Luck. I meant it more in a way that it is pretty clear that this was a Whaley decision. If it does not work out then it is a Whaley problem. To me it would have been different if he was sticking his neck out for someone like Karlos Williams with no experience. He is sticking his neck out for a guy with a few years in the league, a ton of talent but not a ton of production (college included).

 

It would have been much less risky to keep Fred (the team leader) and waive Brown. If Bryce Brown went somewhere (like Dallas) and rushed for 600+ yards I still dont think that you would hear ANYONE saying, "they should have kept Brown and dumped Freddy." What you would have heard is, "good for him, there just was no room for him here with Shady, Fred, Karlos and Boobie." If Freddy goes to Seattle and rushes for 600+ yards you best believe that you will hear, "OMG, I cant believe that they let Fred walk to keep freakin' Bryce Brown."

 

That is really what I meant by risky. There is much more to lose by making that decision than there is to gain. Whaley may be right but he certainly didn't choose the conservative, safe route.

Edited by Kirby Jackson
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Fred's energy on the field can inspire the team. He has proven to be superior at pass blocking. he has consistently keyed the offense through tough runs, first downs when badly needed. Fans love his on-field and off-field attitude and character. Brown has not shown that yet. In some areas, he never will.

 

Karlos is totally unproven. He may turn out to be Barry Sanders or Trent Richardson.

everything you mentioned are intangibles. The pass blocking won't be done by the backups, it is done by McCoy. I understand the intangibles and I love those things about him but you can't be afraid of the unknown... The team had scouts that feel the RBs we have can replace him. Every rookie is unproven. Edited by YoloinOhio
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The very telling difference, Fan, is that there are those that are able to express themselves genuinely on many different topics, and then there are those that totally fly off the handle about everything.

 

I may not totally agree with your take, but I have no problem understanding where you're coming from with it.

 

Massive difference from certain others.

Thanx, bandit. Maybe I am a tad jaded but have definitely learned that not every thing is black and white in the coaching and GM area. As an example, not everything that Marrone did was wrong (Mike Williams) and not everything that Whaley has done is golden (QB, getting rid of Levitre without a replacement). Similarly, I am not sure everything Ryan is doing will turn out to be the best for the team.

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That is really what I meant by risky. There is much more to lose by making that decision than there is to gain. Whaley may be right but he certainly didn't choose the conservative, safe route.

 

Absolutely. Also he will hear it when Brown misses a blitz pick up and Taylor gets whacked.

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What I believe happened....

 

Waley wanted to release Freddy before training camp all along, but Pegula told Doug to keep him on and to allow Jackson to prove him wrong... Problem, jackson played great against Pittsburgh, but Waley was planning on cutting him all along.

 

In the end Waley doesn't have a reason for keeping Jackson on the team through the preseason other than the owner made him... It would have been a better for all parties if they had parted ways before camp, but Waley was handcuffed. There's no doubt that Whaley told Jackson (which was a lie) that he will make the team if he wins the rb back-up competition. What was he supposed to tell him? The owner is making me keep you on, but I'm definitly going to cut you in the end because we would rather keep our younger plethora of running backs?

 

I see this blunder on Pegula. He's a new owner, he needed to either give Waley full control of the situation to cut Jackson prior to camp.... Or he can be an Al Davis and have told Waley that Jackson stays no matter what. He went for something in the middle and it now looks bad for everyone.

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everything you mentioned are intangibles. The pass blocking won't be done by the backups, it is done by McCoy. I understand the intangibles and I love those things about him but you can't be afraid of the unknown... The team had scouts that feel the RBs we have can replace him. Every rookie is unproven.

Again, my argument is not McCoy over FredJ, it is Bryce Brown over FredJ. This move makes little sense, no matter how it is spun

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