Enough incoherence/whining from WGR re: EJ

[thebandit27]

Here's what it looks like individually:

 

Cassel

7-8 45yds 0 TD

 

TT

12-18 114yds 0 TD

10 - 88 rushing

 

EJ

13 - 22 188yds 2 TD

4 - 13 rushing

 

You know what sticks out to me among all of those numbers?

 

Zero turnovers.

[metzelaars_lives]

OC, do me one favor if you can.

 

Can you write three bullets, none of which is over 1 sentence, what point you are trying to make?

When it comes to persuasive writing, it's not about how many fancy words you can squeeze into a sentence to try and show everyone how smart you are but rather to effectively convey a point to your audience by capturing and maintaining their attention, even if it means dumbing it down sometimes. I have no idea what he's talking about myself. I couldn't make it through half of his post. It sounds like he doesn't like WGR and thinks there is a media bias against EJ Manuel.

[The Wiz]

 

You know what sticks out to me among all of those numbers?

 

Zero turnovers.

That's a very good stat indeed.

[plenzmd1]

When it comes to persuasive writing, it's not about how many fancy words you can squeeze into a sentence to try and show everyone how smart you are but rather to effectively convey a point to your audience by capturing and maintaining their attention, even if it means dumbing it down sometimes. I have no idea what he's talking about myself. I couldn't make it through half of his post. It sounds like he doesn't like WGR and thinks there is a media bias against EJ Manuel.

agree 100%.. I know when i am the author of a business case...3-5 bullets of problem/situation and then .3-5 bullets how my solution will help along with expected benefit.

 

That all i want him to do LOL

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

That's fair. I did not mean to insinuate that preseason games mean nothing at all, I do not believe that. I just think people pointing out EJ's passer rating from 9 possessions or whatever fail to understand that according to literally (yes, I know what literally means) every reporter, analyst, etc., EJ dug a hole for himself in camp and was a clear cut third- at least prior to the preseason games.

Take the stats with a grain of salt Metz. Stats lie and in this case they just might. However said stats are an argument to use for those who say EJ is still very inaccurate. You can't have a passer rating of 117.95 for example if you are off target all the time.

 

For this to happen one of these are true

• EJ was on target more often than not
• The 3rd string WR's & TE's are phenomenal players and should be kept on the team.

and lastly using documented high numbers is a great way to troll

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

Edited August 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[metzelaars_lives]

Take the stats with a grain of salt Metz. Stats lie and in this case they just might. However said stats are an argument to use for those who say EJ is still very inaccurate. You can't have a passer rating of 117.95 for example if you are off target all the time.

 

For this to happen one of these are true

• EJ was on target more often than not
• The 3rd string WR's & TE's are phenomenal players and should be kept on the team.

and lastly using documented high numbers is a great way to troll

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

Yeah but my point is that it's still such a small sample size. As mentioned, Dan Orlovsky had a great rating this past week. Does that necessarily mean he is a super accurate QB? Clearly EJ hasn't been accurate enough throughout camp to move up on the depth chart. We'll see what happens on Saturday but again, they're practicing all week and what happens in practice counts in the coaches eyes as well.

[Mr. WEO]

 

Christ, when will the incoherence end?

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm the one being manipulated here. Once again we see that it's the other way around. No. I've found on 3 separate occaisions, when I go all out, "college thesis" style (If they only knew, right PPP?) on WGR...that there are instant behavior changes.

 

 

 

How's that for predictable, WEO? You keep telling yourself you're flying above everybody on this board...in your helicopter. Meanwhile, I'll keep flying above you in my jet.

Funny. I don't feel hot or bothered. In fact, once again, I'm LMFAO.

 

Once again, you have things exactly backwards. All I have to do is write a 10 minute, albeit "college thesis" style post, and I can force WGR's capitulation. Let me say it correctly for you: They know all of us are listening, and if they behave poorly, any of us can write a thread that forces them to correct, provided that thread is quality, and THAT is all that matters.

 

EDIT: They are reading what we say here, just as much as we are listening. They are able to get what they want, sure, but, so are we.

 

------

 

 

.

 

 

"When will the incoherence end"? Never I hope! As always, OC brings pure gold!

 

" 'college thesis' style" posts!

 

"forced capitulation" of a radio station due to above referenced "college thesis" "quality" posts!

 

flying in jets!

 

"uninteded irony" used in a obviously unintended ironic way!

 

You never disappoint, OC....keep the lesser minds under that giant intellectual jackboot heel!

[GunnerBill]

Schopp and "the Bulldog" are terrible. Schopp quite obviously does not have a clue what he is on about. Talks total nonsense the whole time. Can anyone tell me why the Bulldog is called the Bulldog? Why is a grown adult going around calling himself "the Bulldog"? It is a bit creepy.

 

I tend to stick them on about this time of night though. It is 10.15pm over here in the UK. My next 45 minutes consists of doing the dishes, sweeping the kitchen and hallway, ironing a shirt for work tomorrow etc... they are good entertainment value for those kinds of tasks.

[The Wiz]

Schopp and "the Bulldog" are terrible. Schopp quite obviously does not have a clue what he is on about. Talks total nonsense the whole time. Can anyone tell me why the Bulldog is called the Bulldog? Why is a grown adult going around calling himself "the Bulldog"? It is a bit creepy.

 

I tend to stick them on about this time of night though. It is 10.15pm over here in the UK. My next 45 minutes consists of doing the dishes, sweeping the kitchen and hallway, ironing a shirt for work tomorrow etc... they are good entertainment value for those kinds of tasks.

I can only guess because of the way he looks and he sounds like he has smoked since he was 12.

 

When bulldog is on the show alone or with a guest when Schoop is out is probably the only time I enjoy(probably should say tolerate) listening. When schoop is on bulldog becomes a lapdog to schoop.

Edited August 26, 2015 by The Wiz

[TSOL]

An entire segment of The Schoop uncharacteristclly talking football. Sounded forced.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Yeah but my point is that it's still such a small sample size. As mentioned, Dan Orlovsky had a great rating this past week. Does that necessarily mean he is a super accurate QB? Clearly EJ hasn't been accurate enough throughout camp to move up on the depth chart. We'll see what happens on Saturday but again, they're practicing all week and what happens in practice counts in the coaches eyes as well.

yes, I know it is a small sample size..... hasn't that been the point all along WRT EJ

as I said camp and game play can be very different.

EJ could be named #3 and WGR and the rest can all say we told you so.

[metzelaars_lives]

yes, I know it is a small sample size..... hasn't that been the point all along WRT EJ

as I said camp and game play can be very different.

EJ could be named #3 and WGR and the rest can all say we told you so.

I'm not looking for an "I told you so." I just want you to know that where EJ stands today doesn't surprise me one bit; I'm just surprised that it surprises so many of you.

[kickedface]

yeah had to put an end to listening to wgr. i listen to it because i no longer live in wny and i liked hearing about the bills. have to agree with the whole whining thing, annoyed me to the point that i quit listening. if your listeners want you to look at things differently you do it because they are paying to keep the lights on.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Buffalo Bills .com seems to show case Tyrod. E.J. highlights or positive talk is hardly mentioned. Can`t wait till all this secret shitz is over. I do think it`s going to be T.T.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

How come when the radio hosts call a celebrity, even when it's another radio guy always start with something like "How you doing"?

 

I notice this all the time and just laugh.

[TheFunPolice]

Buffalo Bills .com seems to show case Tyrod. E.J. highlights or positive talk is hardly mentioned. Can`t wait till all this secret shitz is over. I do think it`s going to be T.T.

Now the Bills are in on it... Great

[The Wiz]

How come when the radio hosts call a celebrity, even when it's another radio guy always start with something like "How you doing"?

 

I notice this all the time and just laugh.

Because they know that person is going to eat up time where others would call in so they respect them.

[Big Hurt]

OP: Very true.

 

I live out of the area but have been listening to WGR a lot this summer online to get training camp details. Murphy seems to be one of the very few broadcasters not ripping into Manuel.

 

They are defensive, and as the summer progresses, do not seem to want EJ to suceed. And as he has done well in games they have seemed to up their attacks, almost as if they are nervous that they were wrong and he could become a high quality NFL quarterback. Their biased comments and attacks would, of course, look even worse if this were to happen.

 

I am not saying that Manuel should start, as he has not been consistent. But he has looked more like an NFL quarterback each week. By being so negative they have lost their objectivty and are not reliable and trustworthy.

 

Too bad, as there are not althernatives on Buffalo radio to my knowledge, and we want to breathe Bills this time of year and will take what we can get. (Or are there alternatives on Buffalo radio?)

 

I totally agree with everything you said. I also have been listening for years. The second point OC made, I actually heard it live. It was Sal who said it on air to a caller Anthony. Sal said he wasn't trying to be a jerk on the radio but that was exactly what he was. I stopped listen to the station, except for John Murphy, after that statement.

On the topic of EJ, I have two points. 1. What EJ have done in spring has very little effect on today. EJ may have a bad camp, but he improved since. I value preseason more than practice because the purpose to practice is to get better. If you are already perfect than why do you still need to practice. WGR host seems to hang on to every pass players made and analyzed it to death. I think because they didn't have much else to said. That led to them talking about meat draft on the radio.

2. Tyrod is a running QB. We all know what happens to running QB, most of them don't make it through the season. That makes it very important to keep 3 QBs. From what I can see, EJ just needs time to develop. He may not be ready now but I see leadership quality in him. If the Bills let him go before he has a chance to develop, then it may explain why we couldn't make the playoff and why they still don't have a franchise quarterback. Good teams know how to develop quarterbacks.

[jester43]

 

And I could also say that a narcissist was butthurt that WGR on air personalities didn't like the results of the first poll, and decided to start an inane thread on a message board, and then proclaimed that he's the one who spurred the on-air discussion in the first place.

I just wish i had as much time to listen to the show as he does. I really like it.

[seq004]

Most of Schopp's opinions come from others. I'll bet he hasn't watched 10 minutes total of actual camp. It turns into an echo chamber. Also, Schopp is only interested in controversy, fodder for his ponderous show. His last segment with Sal he asked four questions about Roman and Rex disagreeing on a starting QB. Sal kept answering him and Schopp kept asking the same thing a different way.

Your right PTR I thing Schopp loves controversy and in his mind thinks he's Morton Downey Jr. Ever notice how slow he talks? So....Sal...would ...you...say ..then that Rex has a problem...with...EJ? He talks slow to eat up air time.

[BillsVet]

Your right PTR I thing Schopp loves controversy and in his mind thinks he's Morton Downey Jr. Ever notice how slow he talks? So....Sal...would ...you...say ..then that Rex has a problem...with...EJ? He talks slow to eat up air time.

 

Ever hosted a radio show, college, local, national? Nearly every on-air talent needs to be acutely aware of their words and being deliberate isn't a bad thing in that context. You can't just be a stream of consciousness type and let it all out, especially when it's charged issue.

 

It's so absurd reading this thread. I guess some people are completely intolerant of anyone who doesn't share their opinion...and...they then seek to silence the opposing view instead of just ignoring it. I don't understand why, when someone doesn't like what another says the first person just can't go somewhere else and not be offended.

 

Essentially, this is a digital temper tantrum. And there's no appeasing those throwing the tantrum until the other side absolutely capitulates.

[ALF]

I prefer listening to Murph , easy on the nerves.

 

Enjoy hearing his analytics guests like PFF , and professional scouts.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

 

Ever hosted a radio show, college, local, national? Nearly every on-air talent needs to be acutely aware of their words and being deliberate isn't a bad thing in that context. You can't just be a stream of consciousness type and let it all out, especially when it's charged issue.

 

It's so absurd reading this thread. I guess some people are completely intolerant of anyone who doesn't share their opinion...and...they then seek to silence the opposing view instead of just ignoring it. I don't understand why, when someone doesn't like what another says the first person just can't go somewhere else and not be offended.

 

Essentially, this is a digital temper tantrum. And there's no appeasing those throwing the tantrum until the other side absolutely capitulates.

I am not sure anyone is offended. I truly do not care if they are bias(which from an objective view point I would say they are) or not. Just be honest about it and do not try and pretend to be objective or using empirical data.

Edited August 27, 2015 by A Dog Named Kelso

[seq004]

 

Ever hosted a radio show, college, local, national? Nearly every on-air talent needs to be acutely aware of their words and being deliberate isn't a bad thing in that context. You can't just be a stream of consciousness type and let it all out, especially when it's charged issue.

 

It's so absurd reading this thread. I guess some people are completely intolerant of anyone who doesn't share their opinion...and...they then seek to silence the opposing view instead of just ignoring it. I don't understand why, when someone doesn't like what another says the first person just can't go somewhere else and not be offended.

 

Essentially, this is a digital temper tantrum. And there's no appeasing those throwing the tantrum until the other side absolutely capitulates.

Meh. I guess Mike's show could be more based on informative information and it might help if he didn't come off as a condescending pretentious twit, but thats jmo. I just listen and follow Sal now.

[TheFunPolice]

Sirius NFL Radio is a lot better but I listen to WGR during the season for Bills/Sabres talk...

[LB3]

I wish I could listen to WGR at work this afternoon. Someone will need to provide highlights of the on air meltdowns.

[26CornerBlitz]

What will Dope and the Lap Dog have to say this afternoon?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

@ChrisTrapasso

Each #Bills QB had bad misses/off days. When I was at camp, EJ was most accurate/decisive 3/4 days. Showed most advanced QB'ing in preseason

@JeremyWGR:

Can't figure how to feel. I don't care who wins the job. Very odd that a start goes to the guy clearly in third place. #KillThePreseason

Any one see a difference in these two? Please tell me that there is not a bias against EJ.

[OCinBuffalo]

Listening to the last 20 minutes of the Dope and the BS show has proven everything I said in the OP.

 

Reading Tea Leaves and Listening to Coaches.....only to have them blow up when the coaches start EJ.

 

Hey fellas: just listen to the coaches! "Even EJ" gets to start after all.

 

Hilarious. I love it when a thread comes together.

 

:lol: ity

Edited August 27, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[TSOL]

They painted themselves in a corner, you could see this coming a mile away.

 

I look at Their show as more of a radio talk show with a little sports mixed in, rather than a sports talk show anyways.

Edited August 27, 2015 by mastershake

[RayFinkle]

I have listened to WGR very sparingly over the last week, however, each and every time I have I heard the same 4-5 statements made by multiple hosts, with regard to their coverage of EJ this preseason.

 

These statements are either bereft of logic, or, on par with the whining of a 2nd grader. Once again I heard Jeremy White re-hash this crap this morning, and normally I wouldn't care, but, enough is enough. So let's get to it:

 

1. "We have been getting emails and tweets that our coverage has been biased against EJ"

 

You don't say? Well, this morining Sal Capaccio said "We aren't as bad off at QB as was expected. It's a tribute to Greg Roman being able to get these QBs ready to play....EVEN EJ." Ah, when you say schit like this, what, exactly, do you expect listeners to conclude?

 

Hey WGR? Fans have observed a clear pattern of behavior from you. Why the F else are you getting the response? Mass Hysteria? A conspiracy to troll you? No. You are causing this problem with comments like that, and instead of introspection, it's blame the fans?

 

I literally heard...what you say you aren't doing...in 2 separate instances this MORNING!, never mind this past week.

 

I like Sal, but, Sal? You chose those words, not the fans. Why throw in the "...even EJ"? Greg Roman has done a good job with all 3 QBs. Well, that is supposedly Sal's premise. Greg Roman is being paid a compliment...so why is the "...even EJ" necessary? It is not. It's totally irrelevent...so why say it? Answer: bias, supporting the choice, made long ago, that EJ == Bad.

 

2. "Either we are liars, or, we don't know how to do our jobs".

 

Holy drama batman. Yes, arguing to the extreme isn't a logical fallacy or anything. Follow that link fellas.

 

Nobody is accusing you of being liars. Some of us have been accusing some of you of not doing your jobs for a decade+ (anybody want to have a meat draft? ) so this is nothing new, and not specific to EJ coverage.

 

The simple fact is that these aren't the only 2 outcomes, and to suggest otherwise is childish. There is all sorts of research that shows the influenece one person or group can have on others. Both confidence bias, and choice-supportive bias are very real, every day occurances that are much more likely to be the culprits here, than intentional deceit, conspiracy, or staggering incompetence. Groupthink is also infinitely more likely, especially in this case, since the QB issue is so acute. Everyone knows the problem, its importance, and thus fears making a mistake, and its consequences, as both will be maginfied. It's much safer, and natural, for everybody to run in the herd together, and nobody strays too far away. This is prime Groupthink territory. Do the reading.

 

So, please, enough with the incoherent emoting. Nobody is accusing you of anything...other than not seeing your own bias. And that's perfectly normal. IF you could see the bias, you wouldn't have it(unless you really did have an agenda).

 

In ALL cases, liar/incompetent aren't the only 2 possible outcomes. I'm not sure WGR's coverage is biased, because I haven't listened enough. But,it sure smells like it given what I've heard in the last 24, especially the statements I've bolded.

 

3. "We do this for a job"

 

What are we doing? Running through EVERY logical fallacy? Now it's Argument from Authority? Thus, this thread is necessary.

 

Do you really want to have this conversation? How about with X and Os, or draft, or other heavy content posters here? Why is it that every time I write a heavy content post here...my topic is discussed by WGR the next day?(Most recent example: 1985 Bears-->46 Defense == WGR articles and air devoted < 24 hours after my post.)

 

This is 2 Bills Drive, and I have news: WE do this for a job too, often 2-3x better than you, and have for years. The only real difference is that we don't get paid, and we aren't "required by our job to watch the Jets game where EJ was horrible". We'd do that anyway. The WGR host/reporter/contributor who thinks they can go toe to toe on Bills Football with any heavy duty poster here is fooling themselves.

 

According to some respected posters here: WGR has an anti-EJ bias. These people have a long history of being right about this team. WGR is just starting to get some football credibility with Sal Capaccio(ahem, see? I have no bias), who actually knows the Xs and Os well enough to discuss them(unlike others at WGR who refuse to learn the game, and defend that by telling us that Xs and Os are: boring...to Bills fans, of all people. /facepalm Hint: This is not Miami.)

 

WGR: You have a problem. Stop blaming others. Don't argue from authority. Especially when you haven't earned said authority. Your work has been shoddy at best...which...is WHY 2 Bills Drive exists.

 

4. "This is coming from some weird place amongst the fans".

 

Um no, the reason fans are saying WGR's coverage is biased: is because it's empirical.

 

Get over yourselves. Fans simply don't care that much about WGR. The notion that this started in some evil little corner of the internet/twitterverse, dedicated solely to the downfall of WGR, is patently retarded.

 

The fans are responding to: you, WGR. If you don't want to hear the calls and see the emails? Simple: clean up your act. Be conscious of the feedback, aware that you DO say things like "...even EJ"...and make the necessary corrections. Realize that people aren't pointing this out because there's something wrong with them. They are pointing it out because there's something wrong with you. As soon as your behavior changes, the response will change.

 

I am tired of the whining as well. You ARE getting paid to do a job. We AREN'T getting paid to listen to you. I am sick and tired of hearing you B word about doing a job you signed up for, and all that comes with it. Keep your whining to yourselves, look inside, realize you are the cause of your own problem, and, how's about resolving to do a better job?

 

Beats the hell out of more incoherent/weak arguments and whining.

 

5. My personal favorite "We are reading the TEA leaves from the coaches/We are merely reacting to what the coaches are saying"

 

Q1: Who asks the coaches the questions?

A1: The media.

C1: What the "coaches are saying" is driven mostly by the media's questions and how they are framed.

QED. The notion that the media is merely reacting in this situation, is patently retarded. Especially when we consider the fact that "reading the TEA leaves" is the basis for most of this analysis.

 

WGR: You are telling us that most of your work is based solely on interpretation....EVERYWHERE! Interpretation of what you see on the field, interpretation of what the coaches are saying, interpretation of how EJ answers the question "How do you expect things to go at your next team?" (No bias in that question at all)

 

NOTHING here is empirical. ALL is based on interpretation...and WGR people are trying to tell us that there's 0 chance for bias?

 

Here's what I do for a job: tell people like WGR that they are the opposite of right, because this environment is the MOST likely to produce bias. Enough delusion, dissonance, problem denial and shifting the blame to fans as though they are the cause.

 

Enough whining and blaming fans for merely responding to what they can clearly see is broken.

For a guy who listens sparingly, those are some diligent notes. WGR thanks you for tuning in....again.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

@ChrisTrapasso

Each #Bills QB had bad misses/off days. When I was at camp, EJ was most accurate/decisive 3/4 days. Showed most advanced QB'ing in preseason

@JeremyWGR:

Can't figure how to feel. I don't care who wins the job. Very odd that a start goes to the guy clearly in third place. #KillThePreseason

Any one see a difference in these two? Please tell me that there is not a bias against EJ.

 

that is what happens when you drink the Kool Aide

[YoloinOhio]

Vanessa Williams listens to Schopp!

 

@VWOfficial: @Schopptalk So we'll be at the game and I'll bring my new hubby along Plus we love Drew Blum as well

 

@Schopptalk: @VWOfficial Can't wait!

Edited August 27, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[TSOL]

Vanessa Williams listens to Schopp!

 

@VWOfficial: @Schopptalk So we'll be at the game and I'll bring my new hubby along Plus we love Drew Blum as well

 

@Schopptalk: @VWOfficial Can't wait!

I belive that children are our future

Treat them well and let them lead the way

[YoloinOhio]

I belive that children are our future

Treat them well and let them lead the way

That's Whitney Houston

[TSOL]

That's Whitney Houston

Oh, well i guess ill have to concede to you, as our resident late '80s pop R&B expert.

[26CornerBlitz]

That's Whitney Houston

George Benson well before her.

[YoloinOhio]

Oh, well i guess ill have to concede to you, as our resident late '80s pop R&B expert.

yes! I'm finally an expert in something

George Benson well before her.

doh!

[Mr. Suicide Wings]

For a guy who listens sparingly, those are some diligent notes. WGR thanks you for tuning in....again.

Unfortunately for WGR and friends, it takes only two shows to understand everything OC said is true. I know they suck so I stopped listening. Normally I read these posts from anyone who went to practice other than those butt hurt fools, but I needed to know just how bad was bad. I just turned it on for the first time in two months strictly because of this post. Wish I hadn't... ears bleeding. And, my balls ache a bit. Oh wait those are Brady's not mine. Chit I just heard A'Schwipe again, and now they do.

 

Either way, do we have definitive evidence that in fact every single WGR announcer went to every single practice? Something tells me no. Watch your quantifiers and qualifiers please.

 

ESPN is raw doging this to the bone as well without saying anything new. This is not a debate about WHO should be the qb its an exclamation on how awful our media coverage is; in and about Buffalo. I for one think its time for a change.

 

Time for Mr. and Mrs Pegula to buy a new station and put OCinBuffalo on it. Actually put ANYONE on it and just let them read twobillsdrive.com out loud all day and night with a commercial every 5-10 minutes. Pretty sure it would crush WGR inside of 2 weeks. In fact they've bought enough, lets start a fan fund to play "Pegulas are jolly good fellows" 24/7 on air. I'd listen to that for 24 hours straight before WGR. No I like my first idea better.

 

At this point I think I've said "I" about as many times as A'Schwipe does so I'm done.

[OCinBuffalo]

For a guy who listens sparingly, those are some diligent notes. WGR thanks you for tuning in....again.

Reading is fundamental. I specifically said that these not-bullet points are merely what I lifted out of the few times I tuned in.

 

What can I say? I am a good listener. This is why I am able to directly quote people, whether it's yesterday, or 3 years ago. I'll grant it's annoying as hell for some people, but, it is equally as annoying as it is: effective.