webtoe Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 There are many coincidences in life. It seems that many are willing to accept the correlation of Brady petitioning for the rule change regarding game balls....Brady being caught orchestrating systematic deflation of game balls.....and the anomolously low fumble rate statistics for the Pats since the rule change as being coincidence. I for one don't see it as coincidental. Add to that a guy who calls himself "the deflator" and mentions Brady (among other things), takes the footballs into a bathroom to use a non existent urinal before the game, and those balls are found over 1.5 psi below allowable limit. Just another coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I believe that's the case, yeah. I don't see why they'd want to do a lawsuit then. they got a penalty, while serious, still isn't enough to seriously damage their playoff chances. In the Ray Rice case (which their new lawyer took on) the damage was already done to his reputation. In this case, there is no smoking gun, but if they open it, everybody looks bad. If Brady cops to it, admits he lied and ask for clemency he probably gets 2 games. A pittance, and he keeps his 4 SB rings and has a chance to do it all over next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Actually 538 took a serious look at it, and after initially panning it found the findings were significant. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/ 538 used the same flawed data and assumptions, though. The study measures team fumbles (it should use just offensive fumbles), and assumes a normal distribution where there isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 There are many coincidences in life. It seems that many are willing to accept the correlation of Brady petitioning for the rule change regarding game balls....Brady being caught orchestrating systematic deflation of game balls.....and the anomolously low fumble rate statistics for the Pats since the rule change as being coincidence. I for one don't see it as coincidental. If Brady was deflating the balls around 2007 when the rule change was made, the rule change would have made ZERO difference. It had nothing to do with psi. It had nothing to do with how the balls were handled after they were weighed. It still would have been just as hard or easy to deflate them after the officials had them. The rule change had absolute zero affect on deflation and I have been Brady's biggest critic on this. All it meant was that away teams could now bring their own balls to the games to use after they were broken in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If Brady was deflating the balls around 2007 when the rule change was made, the rule change would have made ZERO difference. It had nothing to do with psi. It had nothing to do with how the balls were handled after they were weighed. It still would have been just as hard or easy to deflate them after the officials had them. The rule change had absolute zero affect on deflation and I have been Brady's biggest critic on this. All it meant was that away teams could now bring their own balls to the games to use after they were broken in. Prior to the rule change, were both teams using the same set of balls? The change could have made it easier for manipulation of the ball to go undetected I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Prior to the rule change, were both teams using the same set of balls? The change could have made it easier for manipulation of the ball to go undetected I suppose.If you're going to suppose the officials don't check the balls, then yes. But they do. It's funny but the rules for the balls being checked and between those 12.5 - 13.5 psi have been in effect like since 1940. And maybe before that. Plus, if he was doing it the way he was doing it now, it would have been extremely hard since the home team or the officials (usually the officials) bring the balls to the playing field. That didn't change in 2007 either and is still the case. Edited May 13, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If you're going to suppose the officials don't check the balls, then yes. But they do. It's funny but the rules for the balls being checked and between those 12.5 - 13.5 psi have been in effect like since 1940. And maybe before that. I was thinking more along the lines of the opposing QB would notice if all the balls started going flat, assuming they shared the balls prior to 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I was thinking more along the lines of the opposing QB would notice if all the balls started going flat, assuming they shared the balls prior to 2007 They didn't share the balls I don't think. I think 12 were prepared for the away team and they used those balls the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If Brady was deflating the balls around 2007 when the rule change was made, the rule change would have made ZERO difference. It had nothing to do with psi. It had nothing to do with how the balls were handled after they were weighed. It still would have been just as hard or easy to deflate them after the officials had them. The rule change had absolute zero affect on deflation and I have been Brady's biggest critic on this. All it meant was that away teams could now bring their own balls to the games to use after they were broken in. I don't know what proceedures were changed when that rule came in. Perhaps prior to the rule the away team was given their balls on the field. That would leave little wiggle room to be able to tamper with them. After the change, the Pats might have had the new ability to tamper with their away balls.....and who knows, perhaps the proceedures changed at that time which then enabled the home team to more easily tamper with the balls. What we do know is.... Soft balls are easier to hold on to. The Pats fumble rate is statistically miraculous since the rule change (apparently more so in wet weather). Brady pushed for the rule change. Brady was caught organizing the excessive deflation of balls. Perhaps the rule change had nothing to do with it. Perhaps Brady only grew the balls to orchestrate ball tampering in 2007. That coincidence is far easier to accept than accepting the low fumble rate was not connected to BBD (Brady Ball Deflation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 They didn't share the balls I don't think. I think 12 were prepared for the away team and they used those balls the whole game. that's fine. I just didn't know if they were in a shared pool since they were all prepared by the home team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't know what proceedures were changed when that rule came in. Perhaps prior to the rule the away team was given their balls on the field. That would leave little wiggle room to be able to tamper with them.). That is what happened. Prior to 2007 the away team was given the balls on the field just before pregame warmups. They were often new footballs and then could be broken in by the ball boys or trainers or quarterbacks. The away team used different balls than the home team. After that, the exact same procedure happened, except the balls were already broken in by the away team who brought their own. But the officials had possession of them for a long time before the game and weighed them all and brought them to the field to hand over in pre game warm ups the same way. So he wouldn't have had any different scenarios to doctor them before or after. The. Only difference was they were a little more worn in to his liking as far as rubbing off the new ball film. But that's pretty easy and the ball boys can do that in the half hour before the game as well as during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Why exactly does each team have it's own balls? I mean it's not like in hockey, basketball or pretty much any other sport that the one main piece of equipment is neutral. Maybe that will be the next rule change. Refs provide 12 game balls to be shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Why exactly does each team have it's own balls? I mean it's not like in hockey, basketball or pretty much any other sport that the one main piece of equipment is neutral. Maybe that will be the next rule change. Refs provide 12 game balls to be shared. I don't see much problem with it. Different QBs like a different feel. Some like a little newer some like a little more worn. The new balls can be slippery. They definitely need to be broken in a little rather than right out of a box. It's like asking a pitcher not to be able to roll a baseball around in his hands for 30 seconds before he throws it in a pitch. They just don't expect you to cheat and let the air out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't see much problem with it. Different QBs like a different feel. Some like a little newer some like a little more worn. The new balls can be slippery. They definitely need to be broken in a little rather than right out of a box. It's like asking a pitcher not to be able to roll a baseball around in his hands for 30 seconds before he throws it in a pitch. They just don't expect you to cheat and let the air out of them. I get that, what I mean is give them the balls on the field during warm ups for them to do what they need to within the rules. Not pull it out of the box and go. If they can get a ball properly warmed up for the QB in 30 minutes I don't really think it's that big of a deal having all the balls be shared. I get different QB's like the ball differently but that's kind of my point. They should be able to play with the ball they are given like in every other sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) I get that, what I mean is give them the balls on the field during warm ups for them to do what they need to within the rules. Not pull it out of the box and go. If they can get a ball properly warmed up for the QB in 30 minutes I don't really think it's that big of a deal having all the balls be shared. I get different QB's like the ball differently but that's kind of my point. They should be able to play with the ball they are given like in every other sport.the league loves offense and catering to qbs though! really, even giving the freedom to do what they want all week isnt an issue, if the league takes possession for a final time at inspection and manages them through the game. for a multi billion dollar company, they love staying conservative on staffing official duties. Edited May 13, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 That is what happened. Prior to 2007 the away team was given the balls on the field just before pregame warmups. They were often new footballs and then could be broken in by the ball boys or trainers or quarterbacks. The away team used different balls than the home team. After that, the exact same procedure happened, except the balls were already broken in by the away team who brought their own. But the officials had possession of them for a long time before the game and weighed them all and brought them to the field to hand over in pre game warm ups the same way. So he wouldn't have had any different scenarios to doctor them before or after. The. Only difference was they were a little more worn in to his liking as far as rubbing off the new ball film. But that's pretty easy and the ball boys can do that in the half hour before the game as well as during the game. Except the deflation happened inside.....before the balls were brought onto the field. Do the refs now collect both teams balls and then test them in one area? Or do they test in each teams respective areas? If the later, the post rule away teams would have a new found opportunity to tamper.....where as pre rule, all balls were with the home team prior to being brought onto the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Why exactly does each team have it's own balls? I mean it's not like in hockey, basketball or pretty much any other sport that the one main piece of equipment is neutral. Maybe that will be the next rule change. Refs provide 12 game balls t Because their is a permissible range of variance for the PSI of the balls, and different teams may want to be at different spots with in the permissible range so as to match the balls they used in practice all week. People have dramatically over estimated the impact of how far out of range the patriots balls were. Ask youself this, would you rather face Tom Brady week 2, or would you rather the Bills have permissionould to inflate their balls to whatever pressure they would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Because their is a permissible range of variance for the PSI of the balls, and different teams may want to be at different spots with in the permissible range so as to match the balls they used in practice all week. People have dramatically over estimated the impact of how far out of range the patriots balls were. Ask youself this, would you rather face Tom Brady week 2, or would you rather the Bills have permissionould to inflate their balls to whatever pressure they would like. I'm not exactly sure what playing against Tom Brady in week 2 has to do with the Bills footballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Except the deflation happened inside.....before the balls were brought onto the field. Do the refs now collect both teams balls and then test them in one area? Or do they test in each teams respective areas? If the later, the post rule away teams would have a new found opportunity to tamper.....where as pre rule, all balls were with the home team prior to being brought onto the field.The deflation happened because McNally stole the balls from the referees. He's not supposed to do that. Anderson went to the officials room to get the balls to bring them to the field and they were gone and he was pissed. At an away game that would be really hard to do because the home team is somewhat responsible for the balls. The away ball boy would be wandering around the officials locker room with no business being there. The home team can carry the balls to the field if they ask the officials and are granted permission or if the officials walk with them. The away team doesn't have that opportunity. Edited May 13, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not exactly sure what playing against Tom Brady in week 2 has to do with the Bills footballs. i think it was a random comparison point for scale of impact. ie 1 game against brady would have a bigger impact than 1 psi all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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