The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Yes, but they have no comments from Brady - no texts, nothing. Just a lot of damning circumstantial evidence that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law (plus evidence that one of the parties involved really doesn't like Tommy and may have motivation to take him down). Right but would you like someone if they told you to do something that you didn't think was legit? The texts make it seem like he is nervous and didnt feel comfortable doing it. Even circumstantial evidence gets people convicted. Edited May 6, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yes, but they have no comments from Brady - no texts, nothing. Just a lot of damning circumstantial evidence that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law (plus evidence that one of the parties involved really doesn't like Tommy and may have motivation to take him down). One this isnt a court of law, and two why wouldn't it? He lied about knowing the guy, the guy deflated balls, an nfl qb knows if the ball is under-inflated or over inflated, the spike in phone calls, the text messages. Like you said, its pretty damning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 May 6, 2015 -- a day that will live in infamy. The day the NY Giants welcome back thousands of their fans. So !@#$ing true. I will confess that I was one of the skeptics about the charges. Turns out I was wrong. Your kind of skepticism (in all topics) is never a bad thing. You're always well reasoned and willing to have a discussion about things, even when you're wrong. That's the kind of back and forth that makes this place great. There are others though... Big Head Sports @BigHeadSports 10m10 minutes ago Technically, Tom Brady didn't refuse to turn over his phone. He did turn it over but, because his arm was moving forward, they gave it back. NOPE. I NEVER said they didn't cheat. I knew it was a possibility. I just don't think it's that serious of a transgression. A fine, a short suspension. That's fair to me. Stripped of Titles? A year suspension?....Bitter loser talk. "Bitter loser talk" -- coming from a guy who claims Rex Ryan is too "white trash" to be a good leader, but Belichick and Brady* are pillars of class and honor. Man, it's got to be tough for you to make it through your daily life while constantly gargling Brady* and the rest of the pats*' no-no-parts. I guess it's lucky for you they keep theirs pretty deflated. i get the feeling a lot of people on this board are going to be angry when the punishment handed down to brady is a lot lighter than the one that they anticipated. For me it's not about the severity of the punishment, it's about the shade being thrown on their dynasty*. Brady* and Belichick's* legacy will forever be clouded, as it should be considering they're cheaters and they dishonored the game with their multiple infractions. Bullschitt. I appreciate how you maybe like to see yourself as the only reasonable person evaluating this, but you can't just randomly assume those of us calling for a year's suspension and a title loss to be bitter losers. Let's all gather our children together, okay? Let's tell them how the Patriots** have a history of being "proven" cheaters. Then let's tell all the children that cheating to win is simply not that big of a transgression and you can cheat and still be revered and rich and glorified. Is that your plan? Really? Cheating is cheating and if you try to qualify it simply so you can portray yourself as the only reasonable thinker in the room, you're pretty much doing the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Just for the record, this is the same group who will dismiss Rex's little trip to Baton Rouge. Even if he didn't break the letter of the law, he certainly did break the spirit, and I'm ok with that. That said, I hope Brady gets nailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 One this isnt a court of law, and two why wouldn't it? He lied about knowing the guy, the guy deflated balls, an nfl qb knows if the ball is under-inflated or over inflated, the spike in phone calls, the text messages. Like you said, its pretty damning I *think* he'll take a fall; all I'm saying is that it isn't as open and shut as the Saints case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Just for the record, this is the same group who will dismiss Rex's little trip to Baton Rouge. Even if he didn't break the letter of the law, he certainly did break the spirit, and I'm ok with that. That said, I hope Brady gets nailed. Recruiting violations are VERY different in scope and impact than violations which alter the course of a game. To compare the two is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yes, but they have no comments from Brady - no texts, nothing. Just a lot of damning circumstantial evidence that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law (plus evidence that one of the parties involved really doesn't like Tommy and may have motivation to take him down). you might not have caught how heinous parts of the bountgate investigation were. the source was a guy they fired with cause for lying about his whereabouts on several occasions and they wouldnt give a superbowl ring, that publicly blamed them for his exile from the nfl. hargrove WASNT the guy on tape, and his punishment was for the things said on the tape, refusing to say he was the guy on tape, and generally not cooperating after being accused.... even though they couldnt show it was him on the tape, and it wouldnt have made sense in the context of the conversation to have been him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Recruiting violations are VERY different in scope and impact than violations which alter the course of a game. To compare the two is silly. Oh, I totally agree. This was much more serious. But I don't want to hear "cheating is cheating" and then people squak if something happens just because it's us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I was really waiting on my ride home to see how schopp would make this whole thing seem like nothing big and find out He's out sick. This day really can't get better. I really liked Hamilton telling people he knew the difference between a deflated ball and a game approved ball. Every non-Pats fan today is probably looking like this watching these news outlets: Edited May 6, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhDozeBills Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The NFL couldn't 100% determine if the Patriots broke the rules. Well duh, it's impossible to do so when the team doesn't cooperate with an investigation!!! As an analogy, it's like the killer hiding the murder weapon from investigators. There's enough circumstantial evidence to convict, but all the naysayers will say there is no smoking gun. Brady didn't hand over his cell phone for one reason only. There was something on there he didn't want them to see. Period! Oh, and the Patriots also denied a 2nd interview with their locker room guy, of which the report states there was some important follow up questions they wanted answered. What do you say to that ROBERT KRAFT! Fully cooperated my ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Oh, I totally agree. This was much more serious. But I don't want to hear "cheating is cheating" and then people squak if something happens just because it's us. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 you might not have caught how heinous parts of the bountgate investigation were. the source was a guy they fired with cause for lying about his whereabouts on several occasions and they wouldnt give a superbowl ring, that publicly blamed them for his exile from the nfl. hargrove WASNT the guy on tape, and his punishment was for the things said on the tape, refusing to say he was the guy on tape, and generally not cooperating after being accused.... even though they couldnt show it was him on the tape, and it wouldnt have made sense in the context of the conversation to have been him. You have to understand one thing about my take on Bountygate: there is only ONE guy I cared about in that, and that was the most arrogant and unlikeable coach in Buffalo Bills history. And he was caught red-handed. The rest of 'em? I could care less about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. +1 Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. This 1000 percent. There is so much circumstantial evidence its very convincing. This is cheating by gaining an advantage on the field. I *think* he'll take a fall; all I'm saying is that it isn't as open and shut as the Saints case. fair enough my hope for this isnt that brady is punished (i do want that though), but its for this dynasty* to be remembered for what it was, constant proof of cheating. So many people have forgotten the video tape cheating... Edited May 6, 2015 by Crayola64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 One of the most ignorant comments I've seen on this forum, and that's saying something. How so? Please explain. You haven't said much. Are you 17 as well? I dont understand that thinking maybe you are the one who should be ignored for such a far reaching small minded comment Are you 18? One of the great flaws of a forum like this is that we can't see one another or interact in a real manner. There are thousands of determinations we all make when we interact with one another in real life made in milliseconds. Sorry, but I am not going to give as much respect to the idiotic ideas of a 17 year old as I am to someone three times that age. It's just not worth it. We were all young and dumb once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 @adbrandt: Team owners/executives watching NFL discipline with known Goodell/Kraft relationship. Feeds ingrained paranoia about favoritism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You have to understand one thing about my take on Bountygate: there is only ONE guy I cared about in that, and that was the most arrogant and unlikeable coach in Buffalo Bills history. And he was caught red-handed. The rest of 'em? I could care less about them. then its rather odd you chimed in on the comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Given the NAZI like attitude of Bellichick and company, If this had happened to any other player other than Tom Brady, do you think that player would be cut from the Patriot's roster tomorrow? Polish Dave, you have to let September of 1939 go. It's OK. (Just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 then its rather odd you chimed in on the comparison Why? One case has incontrovertible evidence (re: Williams) and one doesn't. And one has an instance of an overturning of the commissioner's decision (Vilma) because the evidence was perceived to be sketchy. Williams's suspension was never in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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