Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) My guess is there is more to come on this matter. Perhaps then we'll find out some answers to your questions. You wrote: I actually have my suspicions that the investigation was conducted fairly and in an objective way. Not that that matters as the league got what they wanted in all of this. Could you explain how "the league got what they wanted in all of this"? Again, I'm having trouble understanding how a report that concludes that Brady cheated benefits the league or "gives the league what they wanted." Edited May 7, 2015 by Go Kiko go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My guess is that he gets suspended for 4 games. Maybe 8, but I think 4 is likely given the Browns and Falcons cases. People can raise 2007 all they want, but Brady wasn't found culpable for that - Belichik and the organization were. As far the league is concerned, he has a clean record up until now. And that's where the Pats really get away with something. Belichick took the fall for Spygate; Brady takes the fall here. Anyone who believes they weren't both in on (or at least culpably aware) of both of them is seriously delusional. But because there's no second strike for either of them, the penalty isn't as great in this case as it really should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 You wrote: Could you explain how "the league got what they wanted in all of this"? Again, I'm having trouble understanding how a report that concludes that Brady cheated benefits the league or "gives the league what they wanted." after he had his press conferences, its possible he upset them enough to feel vindictive. not saying its the case, but possible. i think a small part of the sean payton fiasco was him upsetting the league on other stuff prior, and them flexing muscle back at him. that was a super bowl winning coach and one of the leagues best TV draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. So they don't believe science either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. I love listening to them But miller is a jock holder when it comes to the pats and Brady Pretty sure he was a backup when they won the sb He won't spill **** on them only tarnishes his own ring Ya double checked received a Super Bowl ring as the backup quarterback for the 2004 New England Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. Yeah, but that ruins the fun. It's way more comforting to believe that the Patriots only win because they are constant cheaters, illegally creating big advantages, than to accept that the Bills have sucked due to their own incompetence for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The heavy handed "go on the offensive" tact of both Kraft and Brady's agent reinforce his guilt imo. There's no reason at all to believe the league had it in for Brady and the pats. Thats just silly. Theyve been caught red handed and rather than own up to it, they're going the Bill O'Reilly route when he was caught red handed lying about his journalistic experiences multiple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yeah, but that ruins the fun. It's way more comforting to believe that the Patriots only win because they are constant cheaters, illegally creating big advantages, than to accept that the Bills have sucked due to their own incompetence for so long. What will your reaction be if Brady is suspended? Most people believe that he will be suspended (even if it's just for a few games). It seems like that will really piss you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 From a legal standpoint the evidence doesn't meet the standard. It's not solid enough. If this case was examined by a supervising prosocutor who made the determination to formally procede with this case based on the evidence (very much of which is qualified) I'm very confident that it would not go any farther. The standard of beyond a reasonable doubt is more rigorous than what a reasonable person could conclude. The standard of beyond a reasonable doubt is based exactly on what a "reasonable person" would conclude based on the evidence. This investigation is not nearly as in-depth as a criminal investigation would be, and commenting on how solid the evidence is from a criminal prosecution perspective is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. Yeah, but that ruins the fun. It's way more comforting to believe that the Patriots only win because they are constant cheaters, illegally creating big advantages, than to accept that the Bills have sucked due to their own incompetence for so long. From the report: "As a result of exposure to the colder temperature on the field during the first half, the air pressure of all of the game balls tested at halftime decreased from the levels measured prior to the game. This result is consistent with basic scientific principles, including the Ideal Gas Law, which predicts the proportional change in pressure that is caused by a change in temperature of the gas inside a pressure vessel of fixed volume (such as a football). According to Exponent [one of the leading scientific and engineering consulting firms in the country], based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements." Edited May 7, 2015 by Go Kiko go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 You wrote: Could you explain how "the league got what they wanted in all of this"? Again, I'm having trouble understanding how a report that concludes that Brady cheated benefits the league or "gives the league what they wanted." Not my explanation but Brady's agent/lawyer "One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office’s protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Not my explanation but Brady's agent/lawyer "One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league offices protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration." The league also caught the browns and falcons breaking the rules but it's apparently OK to punish them according to his lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Not my explanation but Brady's agent/lawyer "One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league offices protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration." Why notify them in advance of when they're being observed? Clearly they won't do it in those instances. It'd be like the police telling a suspected burglar which buildings are under surveillance so he'll know to avoid them Edited May 7, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/07/tom-brady-suspension-deflategate/ Possibly season-long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Not my explanation but Brady's agent/lawyer "One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office’s protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration." So, the league allowed them to cheat and caught them red handed in what amounted to a "sting" operation? Even if that were the case, how exactly does that diminish the fact that Brady, Jastremski, and McNally were involved in violating league rules to gain an unfair competitive edge? Maybe what the league "wanted" was to check the balls during the game and find that they were well within what the league rules allow and, therefore, could say, "Look, we acted on information provided and found no evidence the Patriots were violating league rules." Edited May 7, 2015 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/07/tom-brady-suspension-deflategate/ Possibly season-long! Don't get your hopes up. Just saying. I don't think he gets more than 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/07/tom-brady-suspension-deflategate/ Possibly season-long! I think that would be excessive I hope 8. Expect 4. Hell be freed after the first drive of the season when Grappolo ***** his pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 From the report: "As a result of exposure to the colder temperature on the field during the first half, the air pressure of all of the game balls tested at halftime decreased from the levels measured prior to the game. This result is consistent with basic scientific principles, including the Ideal Gas Law, which predicts the proportional change in pressure that is caused by a change in temperature of the gas inside a pressure vessel of fixed volume (such as a football). According to Exponent [one of the leading scientific and engineering consulting firms in the country], based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements." But, are these points not entirely meaningless because there is a question on the validity of the starting PSI's due to referee incompetence? Why notify them in advance of when they're being observed? Clearly they won't do it in those instances. It'd be like the police telling a suspected burglar which buildings are under surveillance so he'll know to avoid them I have no comment on the process; I was simply offering up an answer to a query as to why the league got what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Not my explanation but Brady's agent/lawyer "One item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office’s protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration." Did you read note 25 on page 46? The report concluded that "prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no 'sting' operation, no plan for a 'sting' operation and no discussion of a 'sting' operation." Even if you don't want to believe the report's conclusion, you believe that this "sting" angle indicates that the league was acting with the purpose of having Brady publicly denounced as a cheater? You stated that the league "got what they wanted" when the report concluded that Brady was aware of rule violations, and you're pointing to this characterization of the league's actions as a "sting" as an indication that the league wanted the report to conclude that Brady cheated, correct? So, in other words, the story would go something like this: the Colts tipped off the league that the Patriots may be violating a rule, the league decided that they wanted to (again, for reasons that have not been articulated) have Brady publicly denounced as a cheater, so they did not inform the Patriots of the Colts's unfounded suspicions that they may be deflating footballs, instead hoping that the Patriots in fact were deflating footballs and that they would be able to catch them in the act, and then be able to publicly demonstrate that Brady was a cheater. Thus, when the report concluded that Brady was aware of rule violations, the league "got what they wanted." Is that correct? Edited May 7, 2015 by Go Kiko go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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