YoloinOhio Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 While this is a plausible scenario, they're more than likely moving on from Manuel. I know some people here think EJM just needs better coaching, but waiting until the 7th round or via UDFA seems implausible considering their depth at the position. They need a prospect and it's not Manuel. EDIT: I'm not saying it's Petty, Grayson, or the other 2nd tier QB's. Just that they're interested given the depth. isnt TT a "prospect"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLbills Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Smokescreens? I don't understand this, what is the reason behind it? My thoughts are, why do teams need to do this? For example: When it comes time for Team A to draft, they are going to take who they need, one that fits their scheme of what they are trying to build. Why would they draft a player that doesn't fit, just to block Team B from drafting that player? It would become a wasted pick at that point, no? What is the purpose of a smokescreen when it comes to the draft (and yes, I understand the principle of a smokescreen, to offer many options to whoever it is directed at so as to not tip your hand in the direction you are going)? I have been curious about this for quite awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) I don't feel victimized whatsoever. Look at this thread right now- people scrutinizing his age because he's like one year older than most seniors. I'm just pointing out the irony, that's all. My biggest pet peeve is when people have unwavering, steadfast opinions on how good of a pro these kids are gonna be before they're even drafted. I remember in 2011, half this board was all "BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I can't believe Carolina is actually gonna take Newton!!!!! What a joke!!!!!" As opinionated as I am, I prefer to judge players after they've been in the league a couple years. Half you guys are like the 15 year old Jets fans in the audience who put their hands on their head in disbelief when the Jets take a cornerback in the fourth round on day three of the draft because he wasn't the highest rated cornerback on Mel Kiper's big board. It's a freaking crapshoot. Not buying it. I'd be more inclined to believe your explanation above if both times it was about a potential draft pick. Not the case. In that thread, you complained about how people "scoff at the idea of RG3 yet defend EJ." We get it. You don't think EJ will be good and don't like that people want to give him a chance. You still just come off as if you feel slighted because you're brave enough to have the opinion that EJ will never succeed. Edited April 28, 2015 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) @FLbills -- I don't believe teams specifically draft players to "keep them away" from another team. But teams certainly do trade up to jump ahead of a team to get a player they want if they believe said team also wants that player. By floating misinformation about the players in which your team has true interest, you may influence trade opportunities and/or cause a player you really covet to fall down the draft board. And in the case of the poorer scouting organizations, you might actually influence their selection decisions. Edited April 28, 2015 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 While I am against us using one of our top 2 picks on a QB this year, I would not be shocked if we traded up a few spots in round 3 assuming Petty slipped to that point. I do not, however, believe he will slip that far. I'm guessing Petty goes somewhere between pick 31 and pick 59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 @FLbills -- I don't believe teams specifically draft players to "keep them away" from another team. But teams certainly do trade up to jump ahead of a team to get a player they want if they believe said team also wants that player. By floating misinformation about the players in which your team has true interest, you may influence trade opportunities and/or cause a player you really covet to fall down the draft board. And in the case of the poorer scouting organizations, you might actually influence their selection decisions. While I agree that is how the game is played, it's impossible for me at least to believe that Doug Whaley going to see Bryce Petty for the first time two days before the draft is going to influence anyone anywhere to the point of thinking the Bills are serious about selecting him at 50 and then expedite trading up ahead of 50 to take Petty because they were worried the Bills would. I don't really find the idea of Whaley going there today influencing that trade plausible in the least. if anything, they would look at it more as a smokescreen than a genuine interest. And if they want Petty and want to trade up for him and their hard deck is less than 50 they will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 While I agree that is how the game is played, it's impossible for me at least to believe that Doug Whaley going to see Bryce Petty for the first time two days before the draft is going to influence anyone anywhere to the point of thinking the Bills are serious about selecting him at 50 and then expedite trading up ahead of 50 to take Petty because they were worried the Bills would. I don't really find the idea of Whaley going there today influencing that trade plausible in the least. if anything, they would look at it more as a smokescreen than a genuine interest. And if they want Petty and want to trade up for him and their hard deck is less than 50 they will do it. So maybe it's a smokescreen intended to make other teams think it's a smokescreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 So maybe it's a smokescreen intended to make other teams think it's a smokescreen. to me it depends on whether this was intentionally leaked from OBD or if Joe b really has this secret source who is throwing him a bone. I hope it's the first one. Since he has never to my knowledge broken any news like this I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 So maybe it's a smokescreen intended to make other teams think it's a smokescreen. Maybe they like the guy? I don't love him as a prospect but I wouldn't be surprised if someone did. He is big with a good arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Until we have a good QB on the roster, Bills should seriously consider drafting a QB every year until we find one. Stop wasting time on the Manuel's and Tuel's that we already know aren't any good. Belichick has one of the all-time best QB's and he still burns 2nd and 3rd round picks on QB's hoping to find his replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 So maybe it's a smokescreen intended to make other teams think it's a smokescreen. That would be smart. But it's not true. Ha. Again, there is zero chance to me that they are serious about drafting him there and this is his first visit. It's possible that they have been hearing that he may fall to the third and that is the impetus for the visit. But I doubt that, too. I think he's probably not even going and this is just info put out there to keep teams in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 If Browns don't make a move for Mariotta in the R1, I'm predicting they will take Petty in R2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Not buying it. I'd be more inclined to believe your explanation above if both times it was about a potential draft pick. Not the case. In that thread, you complained about how people "scoff at the idea of RG3 yet defend EJ." We get it. You don't think EJ will be good and don't like that people want to give him a chance. You still just come off as if you feel slighted because you're brave enough to have the opinion that EJ will never succeed. Not trying to argue and certainly not trying to turn this into an EJ thread. I believe I have been pretty consistent though: a) I'm not going to pretend to know more about how good a college player is going to be from catching a few 4th quarters on ESPN than an NFL scouting department. I trust Doug Whaley. If he loves Grayson or Petty or whoever and the Bills draft them then it will be pretty easy to sell me on them. b) I think it's ridiculous for someone to scoff at or dismiss the idea of trading for a guy who is two seasons removed from one of the best rookie seasons in the history of the NFL while telling everyone it's way too early to judge EJ Manuel. And c) for the record, I am all for giving Manuel a chance. I would be thrilled if he took control and emerged as the franchise QB. I just don't think it's going to happen at this point. Edited April 28, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 So maybe it's a smokescreen intended to make other teams think it's a smokescreen. But what about the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I don't feel victimized whatsoever. Look at this thread right now- people scrutinizing his age because he's like one year older than most seniors. I'm just pointing out the irony, that's all. My biggest pet peeve is when people have unwavering, steadfast opinions on how good of a pro these kids are gonna be before they're even drafted. I remember in 2011, half this board was all "BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I can't believe Carolina is actually gonna take Newton!!!!! What a joke!!!!!" As opinionated as I am, I prefer to judge players after they've been in the league a couple years. Half you guys are like the 15 year old Jets fans in the audience who put their hands on their head in disbelief when the Jets take a cornerback in the fourth round on day three of the draft because he wasn't the highest rated cornerback on Mel Kiper's big board. It's a freaking crapshoot. It's great that you get to pick and choose statements from all of the posters on this board and lump them into one set of people. I question Petty as a developmental project QB because of his age, injury history and system. That doesn't mean I am dead set against him or have claimed that he will no doubt be a failure in the NFL; it's just an opinion on what I think about him. I also have never made any claims about EJ being a total failure, or about Cam Newton when he was drafted by Carolina. But yeah, you're the only one with a rational take on the draft. Keep patting yourself on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLbills Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 @FLbills -- I don't believe teams specifically draft players to "keep them away" from another team. But teams certainly do trade up to jump ahead of a team to get a player they want if they believe said team also wants that player. By floating misinformation about the players in which your team has true interest, you may influence trade opportunities and/or cause a player you really covet to fall down the draft board. And in the case of the poorer scouting organizations, you might actually influence their selection decisions. This is all hypothetical: Ok, so Whaley puts out the smokescreen and goes and talks to Petty to provide the rest of the teams with the misinformation that the Bills are interested in him, all the while having true interest in Garrett Grayson. However, the Steelers (pick #56) are also interested in Grayson to groom behind Ben. With Whaley showing interest in Petty, the Steelers do not feel it is necessary to trade up to pick #49 in order to get Grayson due to the smokescreen from Whaley. Bills are on the clock and now able to draft Grayson because the Steelers didn't trade up because of the false interest in Petty. Did I understand that correctly? Thanks for helping clear it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Not trying to argue and certainly not trying to turn this into an EJ thread. I believe I have been pretty consistent though: a) I'm not going to pretend to know more about how good a college player is going to be from catching a few 4th quarters on ESPN than an NFL scouting department. I trust Doug Whaley. If he loves Grayson or Petty or whoever and the Bills draft them then it will be pretty easy to sell me on them. b) I think it's ridiculous for someone to scoff at or dismiss the idea of trading for a guy who is two seasons removed from one of the best rookie seasons in the history of the NFL while telling everyone it's way too early to judge EJ Manuel. And c) for the record, I am all for giving Manuel a chance. I would be thrilled if he took control and emerged as the franchise QB. I just don't think it's going to happen at this point. Fair enough. I will also not attempt to hijack this thread any longer. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I heard a fwiw rumor today that originated from someone that knows his football abilities as well as anyone at Baylor that Petty is a nice kid but dumb. If first impressions are worth anything, he looked dumb on Gruden's QB segment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 This is all hypothetical: Ok, so Whaley puts out the smokescreen and goes and talks to Petty to provide the rest of the teams with the misinformation that the Bills are interested in him, all the while having true interest in Garrett Grayson. However, the Steelers (pick #56) are also interested in Grayson to groom behind Ben. With Whaley showing interest in Petty, the Steelers do not feel it is necessary to trade up to pick #49 in order to get Grayson due to the smokescreen from Whaley. Bills are on the clock and now able to draft Grayson because the Steelers didn't trade up because of the false interest in Petty. Did I understand that correctly? Thanks for helping clear it up for me. yes, unless the Steelers view it as a double secret smokescreen and trade up for Grayson assuming that's who the Bills really wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 This is all hypothetical: Ok, so Whaley puts out the smokescreen and goes and talks to Petty to provide the rest of the teams with the misinformation that the Bills are interested in him, all the while having true interest in Garrett Grayson. However, the Steelers (pick #56) are also interested in Grayson to groom behind Ben. With Whaley showing interest in Petty, the Steelers do not feel it is necessary to trade up to pick #49 in order to get Grayson due to the smokescreen from Whaley. Bills are on the clock and now able to draft Grayson because the Steelers didn't trade up because of the false interest in Petty. Did I understand that correctly? Thanks for helping clear it up for me. Yes, hypothetically, it could work that way. As others have stated, however, the timing of this "leak" is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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