Big Turk Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 The thing that was wrong was Marrone's insistence on running a blocking scheme and offense that didn't suit his personnel on the line. Which is doubly damning considering Marrone was the one advocating for big, lumbering linemen -- the exact opposite skillset normally associated with a zone blocking scheme. St. Doug was terrible for player development across the offense, from QB to RB to OL, everyone got worse as Doug doubled down on his stubbornness. And from what Wood said in comments, there were up to 3 people telling them to do 3 different things at times...hard to be good as a group when 1 guy might be doing 1 thing, another might be doing something else, and the 3rd might be doing a 3rd thing... no wonder why they couldn't pick up simple stunts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) The thing that was wrong was Marrone's insistence on running a blocking scheme and offense that didn't suit his personnel on the line. Which is doubly damning considering Marrone was the one advocating for big, lumbering linemen -- the exact opposite skillset normally associated with a zone blocking scheme. St. Doug was terrible for player development across the offense, from QB to RB to OL, everyone got worse as Doug doubled down on his stubbornness. There is little doubt that very few offensive players progressed under Marrone. We all witnessed it and whatever metrics you choose to consult bear it out. I loved Rex as a HC hire; however, I will say that I was more excited about getting Roman and Kromer. I truly believe Roman is one of the most innovative OCs out there - and Kromer is one of the best Oline coaches. I do believe the offensive line talent is not as bad as they played last year. I think they are going to add more talent this year (and should); but, I am very interested in how the current linemen, in particular last year's draft class, respond to the new offensive coaching, philosophies, and schemes. Edited March 17, 2015 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 i think the point was, if you can't block well as a starter, why would you expect him to block well as a backup when inserted in the game. The biggest benefit with Urbik would be familiarity with linemates, which is significant. And I think the obvious retort is he's not an ideal starter but when compared to guards #65-96 he's quite capable by comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 At the end of the day what you want is your OL to be completely unknown because no penalty flag is thrown and no defensive player ate their lunch on the way to the qb You get that out of your line and everyone is thrilled A couple of other things - S. Henderson will be going into his second year....and this would be the OT that Urbik would be playing next to. Urbik really is a better RG then he is a LG. - We have one of the better blocking FB's in the league now....which does help out in blocking schemes for the OL - Both Shady AND Freddy are both good blitz pick up guys.....this also helps the OL Slowly but surely....bills management is improving the protection on the field........I would still like to see another OG so that Urbik can be a relief pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 And from what Wood said in comments, there were up to 3 people telling them to do 3 different things at times...hard to be good as a group when 1 guy might be doing 1 thing, another might be doing something else, and the 3rd might be doing a 3rd thing... no wonder why they couldn't pick up simple stunts... Great point, I had forgotten about that comment by Wood. Oh, St. Doug, is there nothing you can't f-up? There is little doubt that very few offensive players progressed under Marrone. We all witnessed it and whatever metrics you choose to consult bear it out. I loved Rex as a HC hire; however, I will say that I was more excited about getting Roman and Kromer. I truly believe Roman is one of the most innovative OCs out there - and Kromer is one of the best Oline coaches. I do believe the offensive line talent is not as bad as they played last year. I think they are going to add more talent this year (and should); but, I am very interested in how the current linemen, in particular last year's draft class, respond to the new offensive coaching, philosophies, and schemes. Completely agree. If Ryan hadn't come with Roman I'd be far less enthused about the hire. I think Roman's presence will make people forget about how bad this offense has been the past two seasons. If one of the QBs end up being better than we think, this team will win 11 or 12 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Pay cuts for everyone! Happy Paddy's Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I don't mind the Urbik restructure given the price. At the end of the day, Buffalo can't have an all star at every position. Football Outsiders had the Bills ranked 26th in run blocking and 19th in pass protection using their advanced statistics. We should see an improvement this season because of Incognito. People forget though that now we have Felton as well. He's a 240 pound LOAD. If we happen to lock up Clay as well, he's twice the blocker that Chandler was. So Urbik takes a pay cut. His other option was getting cut and having to negotiate a contract with someone else. Not sure he would have been paid that much, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraq Vet Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Was it "take a pay cut or be released"? If so, it says something about his worth on the open market. Things are generally worth what people will pay. You house is worth what others will pay for it, not the investment you put into it. A common mistake in the industry I work in. Yes, a rare crazy person might pay 100% more for your home. But that is pure luck. Sometimes when you buy something you get a seal of a deal... But overall, things are priced what the market holds them as. Urbik is a solid back up guard at about 1.5 million per year. Sounds about right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Was it "take a pay cut or be released"? If so, it says something about his worth on the open market. Perhaps. Or it could say something about how much he wants to stay in an organization that's on an upswing. Tough to really tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Was it "take a pay cut or be released"? If so, it says something about his worth on the open market. Things are generally worth what people will pay. You house is worth what others will pay for it, not the investment you put into it. A common mistake in the industry I work in. Yes, a rare crazy person might pay 100% more for your home. But that is pure luck. Sometimes when you buy something you get a seal of a deal... But overall, things are priced what the market holds them as. Urbik is a solid back up guard at about 1.5 million per year. Sounds about right... he's getting 1.2 mil per year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I see that the majority of the fans think that this is a good move to keep this player. However I don't! I think 5$ would be a waste of money on this bum. What so many fans fail to see is this player falls on his face during the big games, and what worse player can you have at any position then one that can't play his best when the chips are down? Go back and watch last years Raider game with playoff consideration on the line for the team, and then with 6:21 in the first QTR watch 5 Raiders on the D line rushing 7 Bills defenders. Then watch Raider DT Antonio Smith drive #60 5 yards into the backfield to tackle Spiller for a 5 yard loss. Urbik was one on one, and was overpowered at the line by a scrub DT on a 2-12 team. Smith had only 18 tackles all year, and the bum Urbik lets him make a big play for one of them. 13 rushes for 13 yards is all the Bills had in that game. How unbelievably pathetic!! As bad as Richardson was last season I didn't see him get driven 5 yards into the backfield, and allow a 5 yard loss in an important game. I'd rather see the position go to a younger, developing player. This season under Rex Ryan I was really hoping the team would move away from the bad one dimensional players, and invest in some quality talent. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I see that the majority of the fans think that this is a good move to keep this player. However I don't! I think 5$ would be a waste of money on this bum. What so many fans fail to see is this player falls on his face during the big games, and what worse player can you have at any position then one that can't play his best when the chips are down? Go back and watch last years Raider game with playoff consideration on the line for the team, and then with 6:21 in the first QTR watch 5 Raiders on the D line rushing 7 Bills defenders. Then watch Raider DT Antonio Smith drive #60 5 yards into the backfield to tackle Spiller for a 5 yard loss. Urbik was one on one, and was overpowered at the line by a scrub DT on a 2-12 team. Smith had only 18 tackles all year, and the bum Urbik lets him make a big play for one of them. 13 rushes for 13 yards is all the Bills had in that game. How unbelievably pathetic!! As bad as Richardson was last season I didn't see him get driven 5 yards into the backfield, and allow a 5 yard loss in an important game. I'd rather see the position go to a younger, developing player. This season under Rex Ryan I was really hoping the team would move away from the bad one dimensional players, and invest in some quality talent. JMO Yes, bad coaching causes lots of problems. Good coaching fixes problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I may in the minority here, but despite some of the lower rankings by PFF and others, I did not think that Urbik played THAT poorly last season. I know he was banged up in the preseason and somehow wound up in St. Doug's doghouse. It was only by a matter of attrition that he finally got on the field once Williams went down for the season and Richardson proved to be unready for prime time. From what I observed, Urbik was clearly the best of the 3. Agreed. And getting injured in the preseason can impact on your play all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_g Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 This was a good move by the front office, seem to be doing alot of that recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I see that the majority of the fans think that this is a good move to keep this player. However I don't! I think 5$ would be a waste of money on this bum. What so many fans fail to see is this player falls on his face during the big games, and what worse player can you have at any position then one that can't play his best when the chips are down? Go back and watch last years Raider game with playoff consideration on the line for the team, and then with 6:21 in the first QTR watch 5 Raiders on the D line rushing 7 Bills defenders. Then watch Raider DT Antonio Smith drive #60 5 yards into the backfield to tackle Spiller for a 5 yard loss. Urbik was one on one, and was overpowered at the line by a scrub DT on a 2-12 team. Smith had only 18 tackles all year, and the bum Urbik lets him make a big play for one of them. 13 rushes for 13 yards is all the Bills had in that game. How unbelievably pathetic!! As bad as Richardson was last season I didn't see him get driven 5 yards into the backfield, and allow a 5 yard loss in an important game. I'd rather see the position go to a younger, developing player. This season under Rex Ryan I was really hoping the team would move away from the bad one dimensional players, and invest in some quality talent. JMO Urbik was perfectly fine under Gailey when we averaged 5 ypc as TEAM. Spiller, Wood, Urbik, Stevie Johnson, Manuel, Lewis, Orton, Glenn, etc all regressed the last 2 years. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_g Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'll take Coaching for 1000 Alex Urbik was perfectly fine under Gailey when we averaged 5 ypc as TEAM. Spiller, Wood, Urbik, Stevie Johnson, Manuel, Lewis, Orton, Glenn, etc all regressed the last 2 years. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Urbik was perfectly fine under Gailey when we averaged 5 ypc as TEAM. Spiller, Wood, Urbik, Stevie Johnson, Manuel, Lewis, Orton, Glenn, etc all regressed the last 2 years. Why? Agreed, I like Urbik as the swing guy inside. You aren't going to do much better as your 3rd guard or 2nd center especially when you factor in the salary. Now you need to secure a high end starting guard, start to develop the young guys and you are in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhit34 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Something just didn't add up with the offensive line under Marrone. Once Urbik went into the lineup last year, they had 4 of the 5 guys that comprised the final Chan Gailey line (Glenn, Urbik, Wood, Pears) though Pears and Urbik were in different positions. With 80% of the same personnel, and presumably Wood in the prime of his career and Glenn on the rise, it is hard to believe that the play dropped off that much. Even if Urbik ends up starting again I am mildly optimistic that they will be better. I'm looking for Wood to return to form, Glenn's career to pick back up where he left off in 2012-13, Henderson to utilize his athletic talents and make a big step forward this year, Incognito to be a good citizen and be decent, and then have them figure out the 5th spot. You can't have stars at every position and if they have to plug one of the guard spots so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Nice, good back up. Still believe we need to take best OL available at 50. I wonder if Roman views Henderson and Glenn as tackles or is there a possibility he wants either of them at guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I wonder if he would have done this if his buddy Marrone was still here. If the reduced pay came in the form of a fine for punching Marrone in the face, then maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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