Sammy V Odell Beckham

[John from Riverside]

No, because in that case no fool would have argued that watkins is better.

Yes its so easy to determine this after one year

[Deranged Rhino]

Yes its so easy to determine this after one year

 

Only a fool would argue that either one is better -- which is why it's a JTSP post.

[John from Riverside]

I respect JTSP's right to have a take......

 

Its just uninformed.....

[JohnC]

Yes its so eas y to determine this after one year

I'm not bothered by the fact that Odell had a better rookie season than Watkins. I'm not bothered that that Whaley traded a first round pick to move up a few spots. If Odell turns out to be a regular all-star then more power to him and the Giants. It's apparent our front office had a conviction that Watkins is a special talent and he is going to be a dynamic player for us. Anyone who watched the Bills last year saw a receiver who periodically flashed special game breaking abilities.

 

If Whaley upgrades the OL and upgrades the caliber of qbing where Watkins is more involved in the offense then the trade up makes sense for us. If Whaley doesn't take steps to upgrade the level of qbing and improve the passing game then the trade up was a wasted effort to add a dynamic player whose talents are under-utilized.

 

Is EJ the type of passer who can maximize the abilities of Watkins? (I have my doubts.) Or is another qb going to be brought in who is capable of improving the passing game and get the most out of our dynamic receiver? That's Whaley's challenge. If Whaley can't put this high octane receiver in a better position to succeed then Whaley made a bad decision with the trade up.

[jumbalaya]

Sammy can't catch OBJ's jock.

Edited January 25, 2015 by jumbalaya

[DC Tom]

Sammy can't catch OBJ's jock.

 

But what if you deflate OBJ's jock?

[John from Riverside]

Sammy can't catch OBJ's jock.

Would he really want to if he could?

[Uffalo Ills]

My prediction is that OBJ could see a sophomore slump.

I want to believe (oops, billieve) that too. It seems likely with Cruz coming back. Then again, I hope Sammy rockets to stardom in his second year, but I'm worried about offseason injuries and the QB situation.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

But what if you deflate OBJ's jock?

 

:lol:

[Luap22]

Sammy is a great find, we've blown many draft choices in the past. Sammy is a winner and a great threat.

 

Comparing him to others is useless. Be glad we've got him. He'll be the best.

 

The past is past, we need positive attitudes for next year. Griping and complaining now is useless.

[Rob's House]

As far as I know; you can bruise your ribs and later break them.

That's a myth.

[KDIGGZ]

There is no way our scouts watched OBJ do this and then traded 2 firsts for Sammy.

 

Check out @SportsCenter's Tweet: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/559499141756489730?s=09

[Dorkington]

There is no way our scouts watched OBJ do this and then traded 2 firsts for Sammy.

Check out @SportsCenter's Tweet: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/559499141756489730?s=09

You do remember what team this is, right? We probably outsmarted ourselves, like usual.

[negativo]

Sammy had a nice rookie year, and could definitely develop into a solid #1 receiver with the right QB. That said, IMO there is a legit chance Odelle Beckham could become the greatest wide receiver of all time. He's that good. It's simply unfair to compare Sammy to this guy.

[John from Riverside]

Sammy had a nice rookie year, and could definitely develop into a solid #1 receiver with the right QB. That said, IMO there is a legit chance Odelle Beckham could become the greatest wide receiver of all time. He's that good. It's simply unfair to compare Sammy to this guy.

 

Your right.....one of them is smaller....missed 4 games due to injury.....and had better QB throwing him the ball....

 

oh

 

And he was also TARGETED more....meaning he was given MORE chances to make plays

[FireChan]

You do remember what team this is, right? We probably outsmarted ourselves, like usual.

The Giants had Sammy over ODB. But, you know, same old Bils trading up for the best WR and offensive prospect in the draft. Outsmarting themselves with a great WR. Just imagine if there's a decent DB or LB at #19? The horror.

[John from Riverside]

The Giants had Sammy over ODB. But, you know, same old Bils trading up for the best WR and offensive prospect in the draft. Outsmarting themselves with a great WR. Just imagine if there's a decent DB or LB at #19? The horror.

You know the interesting thing about all this is usually the complaints of not having the 19th pick revolve around not being able to draft that ever elusive QB....you know the one that WONT BE AVAILABLE AT 19.

 

Every need that we have (with the exception of QB) there are free agent veteran players that can fill those needs

 

OG

TE

RB (although I hope we draft one)

 

Free agents will be available.

 

You know what wont be available? A player of Sammy Watkins potential.

 

I applaud Doug Whaley and the job he has done.

[DirtDart]

I am so sick of NFL analysts grilling Whaley on the Sammy trade. Yeah Beckham had a phenomenal year with NYG but look who he had throwing him the ball! Eli got the ball to his playmaker. Orton and EJ could not do that regularly enough! I would love to see if Eli was throwing the ball to Sammy. I don't think that there would be any debate then!

 

If we got a gunslinger like Cutler, he would make a star out of Sammy and Woods. Yeah he would have some bad interceptions, but I think our defense would be able to recover. Get Sammy someone who can get him the ball so we can stop listening to idiots criticize the trade.

More Cutler talk. ...yea....

[machine gun kelly]

Both Beckham and Watkins got hurt over the summer. Coughlin put Beckham on the shelf until he was healthy. Marrone played an injured Watkins in a meaningless preseason game, and the guy was clearly hampered for much of the season.

Exactly e-ball. Maroon is a douche. It's really too bad we never were able to see Sammy completely healthy. I believe he had three injuries throughout the year, but still kept playing.

 

Hopefully, he'll come in healthy and well conditioned for next year. Then the analysts will fawn over him like they. Did with Beckham after "the catch". I have to admit that was the most athletic catch I've ever seen, and I've been watching football for over 40 years.

[Thurman#1]

I am so sick of NFL analysts grilling Whaley on the Sammy trade. Yeah Beckham had a phenomenal year with NYG but look who he had throwing him the ball! Eli got the ball to his playmaker. Orton and EJ could not do that regularly enough! I would love to see if Eli was throwing the ball to Sammy. I don't think that there would be any debate then!

 

If we got a gunslinger like Cutler, he would make a star out of Sammy and Woods. Yeah he would have some bad interceptions, but I think our defense would be able to recover. Get Sammy someone who can get him the ball so we can stop listening to idiots criticize the trade.

 

 

Golly, this is a whole new perspective.

 

Never heard it put quite this way before.

 

An eye-opening revolutionary slant on things.

[BillsBytheBay]

Sammy does something that will ensure a long fruitful career IMHO. He separates from coverage so well, he hasn't had to make many spectacular catches. His best display of hands were on poorly thrown balls last year.

 

Both players will be great, but its crazy to start putting a gold jacket on one or the other.

I know Sammy experienced bracket coverage a ton. I wonder how teams game planed for ODB.

[1billsfan]

There is no way our scouts watched OBJ do this and then traded 2 firsts for Sammy.

 

Check out @SportsCenter's Tweet: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/559499141756489730?s=09

 

Yes, how dare the Bills not know the future superstardom of a 5'11" 198 lb WR with only 12 TDs in college who had a question mark on whether he'd ever become a true #1.

 

That's the funny thing about the draft, they don't tell who the future superstars are going to be. If they did, Russell Wilson would have been picked by the Redskins over RGIII, JJ Watt would have gone to the Broncos over Miller, and on and on and on...

 

When I saw Beckham's videos, he looked like a better version of Stevie Johnson. A WR with the same size and route running style but with better hands than a WR already on our roster. IMO he was never in the conversation at OBD because of this and thats why they were looking at Ebron.

Edited January 26, 2015 by 1billsfan

[Thurman#1]

The Giants had Sammy over ODB. But, you know, same old Bils trading up for the best WR and offensive prospect in the draft. Outsmarting themselves with a great WR. Just imagine if there's a decent DB or LB at #19? The horror.

 

 

 

Yup. The Giants had Sammy over ODB.

 

Tell me, did the Giants trade up and give up next year's pick to get Sammy? If not, there's no reason to think the Giants thinking on this backs up the Bills actions.

[Maury Ballstein]

Sammy rules. Keep crying about it though.

[Thurman#1]

Sammy is a great find, we've blown many draft choices in the past. Sammy is a winner and a great threat.

 

Comparing him to others is useless. Be glad we've got him. He'll be the best.

 

The past is past, we need positive attitudes for next year. Griping and complaining now is useless.

 

 

 

Letting the FO off the hook for their decisions, that's what's useless.

 

Fans and the FO itself should always be evaluating. So far, Sammy is a bit behind ODB but seems to be good enough that it wouldnt' be a surprise if he ends up being as good or better.

 

But what would be a huge surprise at this point is if he ends up being the best WR in the class by a margin that would ever justify the trade value.

 

The standard rule is that you don't trade away two firsts unless you're getting a QB. We broke that rule. It looks like we should not have done so.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Thurman#1

[GG]

The Giants had Sammy over ODB. But, you know, same old Bils trading up for the best WR and offensive prospect in the draft. Outsmarting themselves with a great WR. Just imagine if there's a decent DB or LB at #19? The horror.

 

That's the rub. It's still too early to say definitively, but this could be the case of the scouting services totally blowing it on OBJ. He wasn't even the No. 2 rated WR, and probably #4 on some boards.

 

Someone brought up Les Miles as the reason, and that's probably true. Landry was Mettenberger's #1 target and was more productive than OBJ in his offense.

 

I don't follow NCAA players until after the fact, but looking at a roster of Mettenberger, OBJ, Landry & Jeremy Hill shocking they didn't score more than 50 in each game.

[Dorkington]

The Giants had Sammy over ODB. But, you know, same old Bils trading up for the best WR and offensive prospect in the draft. Outsmarting themselves with a great WR. Just imagine if there's a decent DB or LB at #19? The horror.

Sounds like the Giants got lucky, then. Right *now* ODB is the greater value... costing less, and producing more. Maybe after a few years go by, the fortunes will change, but for right now, the Bills made the wrong choice, as usual. Hindsight being 20/20 and all.

 

Please don't take this as me thinking Sammy sucks, he's damned good. Just right now, there's someone who is better. I'm glad to at least have the "consolation prize" of Sammy (and a hell of a consolation he is).

[truth on hold]

Sammy had a nice rookie year, and could definitely develop into a solid #1 receiver with the right QB. That said, IMO there is a legit chance Odelle Beckham could become the greatest wide receiver of all time. He's that good. It's simply unfair to compare Sammy to this guy.

agree odb is just in a totally different category. he has a chance to be on the short list of best ever with names like moss and rice. watkins ceiling is to be about as good as moulds

[Maury Ballstein]

agree odb is just in a totally different category. he has a chance to be on the short list of best ever with names like moss and rice. watkins ceiling is to be about as good as moulds

Please stop. you look foolish when you post this nonsense.

 

ODB has a gold jacket waiting and Watkins might be moulds. Cool story. Nyg's record was sweet !

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ryan L Billz

[Dorkington]

agree odb is just in a totally different category. he has a chance to be on the short list of best ever with names like moss and rice. watkins ceiling is to be about as good as moulds

Ok, this is ridiculous. We don't have any idea of either player's ceilings at this point.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Sounds like the Giants got lucky, then. Right *now* ODB is the greater value... costing less, and producing more. Maybe after a few years go by, the fortunes will change, but for right now, the Bills made the wrong choice, as usual. Hindsight being 20/20 and all.

 

Please don't take this as me thinking Sammy sucks, he's damned good. Just right now, there's someone who is better. I'm glad to at least have the "consolation prize" of Sammy (and a hell of a consolation he is).

 

See, Dork, got to disagree on the "wrong choice" viewpoint. You pick a guy that looks good and has a good football attitude according to your scouting and interviews etc. Then, at the top of the 1st round, there's about a 50% chance you get a guy who can play, and decreases as you go to the bottom of the 1st and top of the 2nd. By the 3rd round it's like 20-30%.

 

Anytime you make a draft choice and get a quality fish, a guy who can really play, it's not the "wrong choice". It's only a "wrong choice" if you overlook bundles of guys who can actually play in favor of a Maybin or a TJ Graham.

[Dorkington]

 

See, Dork, got to disagree on the "wrong choice" viewpoint. You pick a guy that looks good and has a good football attitude according to your scouting and interviews etc. Then, at the top of the 1st round, there's about a 50% chance you get a guy who can play, and decreases as you go to the bottom of the 1st and top of the 2nd. By the 3rd round it's like 20-30%.

 

Anytime you make a draft choice and get a quality fish, a guy who can really play, it's not the "wrong choice". It's only a "wrong choice" if you overlook bundles of guys who can actually play in favor of a Maybin or a TJ Graham.

We agree more than you think. There's varying levels of "wrong", and I certainly don't think Sammy is a Maybin level of "wrong"

[thebandit27]

Sigh...this topic again...

 

Anyone that's watched any football for any length of time could tell you that--of the top-tier rookie WRs--the guy that gets the most targets, who also happens to play with a 2x Superbowl MVP QB, is most likely to have the best production.

 

Anyone that wants to attribute that production to anything beyond the above is guessing at best, and simply ignorant at worst.

 

There, I said it.

[negativo]

agree odb is just in a totally different category. he has a chance to be on the short list of best ever with names like moss and rice. watkins ceiling is to be about as good as moulds

I'd take a Moulds career from Sammy in a heartbeat. He was a solid #1 receiver for years and made 3 pro bowls. Even a Lee Evans level career would be fine with me. Anyone with eyes can see Beckham is in another category. The Giants clearly hit jackpot with a generational phenom. Draft boards can't see everything. Jerry Rice was taken after Al Toon and Eddie Brown, both quality pro receivers in their own right but clearly not in the same stratosphere as Rice. Is Rice just a product of having HOF QBs throwing to him? Would Toon or Brown have had equal numbers if they traded places? Clearly no sane person would think so. Rice was the best, and all signs point to Beckham being in the super-elite category, too.

[truth on hold]

I'd take a Moulds career from Sammy in a heartbeat. He was a solid #1 receiver for years and made 3 pro bowls. Even a Lee Evans level career would be fine with me. Anyone with eyes can see Beckham is in another category. The Giants clearly hit jackpot with a generational phenom. Draft boards can't see everything. Jerry Rice was taken after Al Toon and Eddie Brown, both quality pro receivers in their own right but clearly not in the same stratosphere as Rice. Is Rice just a product of having HOF QBs throwing to him? Would Toon or Brown have had equal numbers if they traded places? Clearly no sane person would think so. Rice was the best, and all signs point to Beckham being in the super-elite category, too.

agree people should be delighted if watkins elevates his game to moulds level, and starts winning some jump ball contests for a change.

[KDIGGZ]

 

Yes, how dare the Bills not know the future superstardom of a 5'11" 198 lb WR with only 12 TDs in college who had a question mark on whether he'd ever become a true #1.

 

That's the funny thing about the draft, they don't tell who the future superstars are going to be. If they did, Russell Wilson would have been picked by the Redskins over RGIII, JJ Watt would have gone to the Broncos over Miller, and on and on and on...

 

When I saw Beckham's videos, he looked like a better version of Stevie Johnson. A WR with the same size and route running style but with better hands than a WR already on our roster. IMO he was never in the conversation at OBD because of this and thats why they were looking at Ebron.

I'm talking specifically about this routine that Beckham Jr does before EVERY game. catching 1 handed passes all over the field. watch that video and then tell me that you wouldn't think he would be a good receiver

[Hot Buffalo Wings]

Wow! Odell Beckham, and Sammy Watkins? Comparing the two?!?!? I never even thought about such an analysis until just now. So glad there's a thread about this. Maybe one about whether EJ is the guy or not? I'd like to hear people's thoughts.

It starts to get annoying reading posts like this. You have to realize not everyone is on this board every day to catch every thread that comes through. Its probably easier to ignore a thread that you may feel is repetitive.

 

Unless you really need the self-esteem boost...

[FireChan]

I'd take a Moulds career from Sammy in a heartbeat. He was a solid #1 receiver for years and made 3 pro bowls. Even a Lee Evans level career would be fine with me. Anyone with eyes can see Beckham is in another category. The Giants clearly hit jackpot with a generational phenom. Draft boards can't see everything. Jerry Rice was taken after Al Toon and Eddie Brown, both quality pro receivers in their own right but clearly not in the same stratosphere as Rice. Is Rice just a product of having HOF QBs throwing to him? Would Toon or Brown have had equal numbers if they traded places? Clearly no sane person would think so. Rice was the best, and all signs point to Beckham being in the super-elite category, too.

Was Jerry Rice Jerry Rice after one season?

 

Lots of ODB love in here. Wait til Cruz starts vulturing targets.

[BillsBytheBay]

I'm talking specifically about this routine that Beckham Jr does before EVERY game. catching 1 handed passes all over the field. watch that video and then tell me that you wouldn't think he would be a good receiver

both hall of fame talents, do you take Randy moss, or Chris Carter?

I'm not trying to make a direct comparison but ODB reminds me of Chris Carter's hands.

I still take that Moss speed strength and ability to get wide open.

Maybe when we have a QB who dosent throw lame ducks down field, we'll see if Sammy can high point.

[KDIGGZ]

both hall of fame talents, do you take Randy moss, or Chris Carter?

I'm not trying to make a direct comparison but ODB reminds me of Chris Carter's hands.

I still take that Moss speed strength and ability to get wide open.

Maybe when we have a QB who dosent throw lame ducks down field, we'll see if Sammy can high point.

All things equal, sure. But we gave up 2 firsts to take a guy wth similar talent (if we are lucky) intead of just picking the guy that was perhaps just as good (and as we are seeing probably much better). Sammy will be good but he was never 2 first round picks better than ODB jr. I just can't believe they watched his pre-game routine and then decided they thought Sammy was worth it. Watch that video, it's nuts