PromoTheRobot Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 EJ is not being cut. He will be one of a mix of a free agent signing and a draft pick, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The problem is if you actually pay attention to college football & watch the games & watched FSU while EJ played there you see a QB that is very limited in what he can do. He can only read half the field, he slow on his progressions if he even goes thru his progressions, he has speed but he is not a good scrambler(if that makes sense) & his accuracy on the medium to long passes is horrible. I realize this is not his fault but he should of never been drafted in the first round. The big problem is that a lot of EJ's problems I really don't think are correctable. Van Miller told me a long time ago when we were discussing JP Losman at the gym that "accuracy is something you can't teach, either you have it or you don't." I hope I am wrong but I really think Manuel will be out of the league in 3 years. I find this statement disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The problem is if you actually pay attention to college football & watch the games & watched FSU while EJ played there you see a QB that is very limited in what he can do. He can only read half the field, he slow on his progressions if he even goes thru his progressions, he has speed but he is not a good scrambler(if that makes sense) & his accuracy on the medium to long passes is horrible. I realize this is not his fault but he should of never been drafted in the first round. The big problem is that a lot of EJ's problems I really don't think are correctable. Van Miller told me a long time ago when we were discussing JP Losman at the gym that "accuracy is something you can't teach, either you have it or you don't." I hope I am wrong but I really think Manuel will be out of the league in 3 years. Yet Manuel's stats 14 games in are mirror images of Tannehill's stats during his first 14 games including them having the exact same completion percentage. Also, Tannehill had Mike Sherman as his OC while Manuel had Hackett as his OC. He will never be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in terms of accuracy, but IMO he can be an Eli Manning type of QB who goes on hot and cold streaks and gets on a roll come playoff time. Whatever they do I want them to start throwing about 5 or 6 "jump balls" deep down the field every game and let Watkins and Woods win most of those battles against the DBs. I don't care about interceptions that are like punts. Doing this consistently will open up huge holes in the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think that EJ Manuel does what he's told to do (to a fault) because that's how he was raised. I think that he was told by Marrone to not take any chances and he also told him not to run around anymore because they were afraid of him getting hurt. NFL defenses tightened down on what the Bills were doing in this regard and there was no longer any breathing room for Manuel or Orton to succeed in an offense that was so suffocating in conservative play calling. The very strange thing about how much Manuel gets bashed by fans and media alike is by go looking at his stats 14 games in and juxtaposing them with Tannehill's and Bortles' stats at the same time of games started. EJ has slightly better numbers than they do, yet has anyone ever heard anything close to what EJ has got as far as criticisms with those two QBs? Has anyone heard the conclusive declarations of "Miami's got no QB", or "Jacksonville has no QB" in the media and with fans? To me, I think a lot of people have gone way overboard in the Manuel bashing. EJ's numbers represent what everyone expected when he was drafted. Before he even played a down of football, if everyone on this board was told that Manuel would have 16 TDs/12 INTs/78.5 QB rating/1 fourth quarter comeback and 3 games winning drives after 14 games then they would be totally fine with those numbers because he was a "project" QB. I still think that Manuel could be the Bills franchise QB, just as Miami fans and media still think that Tannehill can be their long term franchise QB and the same with Jacksonville fans with Bortles. Thankfully EJ Manuel will finally have true professional training this time around. I can't wait to see if there's going to be a major jump in his level of play this year. I more or less agree and the jury is still out here regardless of how many 'expert' opinions there are out there. There seemed to be something fundamentally wrong with the Marrone/Hackett offense. So how can we be certain that EJ can or cannot be a productive NFL QB with the right coaching and system? Bringing that is my expectation of Ryan/Roman here. How many players regressed under the Marrone/Hackett offense? The offensive line was awful across the board with even Wood and Glenn falling off. What happened to Hairston? He was a competent starter at one time and couldn't even sniff the field most of the season. Even Orton, who I thought started out well, seemed to have the life sucked out of him by the end of the season. The fact is we don't need the offense to light it up here. Just protect the football a little better and score 7 points a game more would get us close to 12 wins with the current defense which we can expect to be even more lethal next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 EJ is by FAR smarter than Kap However, Kap is by far more athletic and fast than EJ So I think EJ has enough athleticism to be Kap lite anyway, which might be good enough and would be a huge improvement for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Yet Manuel's stats 14 games in are mirror images of Tannehill's stats during his first 14 games including them having the exact same completion percentage. Also, Tannehill had Mike Sherman as his OC while Manuel had Hackett as his OC. He will never be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in terms of accuracy, but IMO he can be an Eli Manning type of QB who goes on hot and cold streaks and gets on a roll come playoff time. Whatever they do I want them to start throwing about 5 or 6 "jump balls" deep down the field every game and let Watkins and Woods win most of those battles against the DBs. I don't care about interceptions that are like punts. Doing this consistently will open up huge holes in the running game. Bulk stats do not tell the whole story. If EJ's accuracy is on Tanny's level, explain his completion percentage to WR's. Please. Also, what in EJ's game reminds you of Eli Manning? Edited January 12, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Also, what in EJ's game reminds you of Eli Manning? Their first and last initials are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Bulk stats do not tell the whole story. If EJ's accuracy is on Tanny's level, explain his completion percentage to WR's. Please. Also, what in EJ's game reminds you of Eli Manning? I think that EJ has shown clutch play in the fourth quarter of tight games. SJ and Chandler are the two that harpooned the 2013 season in the game against the Falcons. EJ hit them both on key pass plays that would have set them up for the win. He's also shown the ability in his limited opportunities of hitting WRs on deep patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If HC's are wary of Manuel, then fans should be as well. Some will say he's raw, but after 2 years with an NFL organization that shouldn't be the case anymore. I get that some people refuse to believe EJ's not starting material, but after throwing more than 400 passes, he's about a 58% completion guy combined with a low yards per attempt (6.4 yards). Given these metrics, I don't think it's only a coaching thing with EJ. Coaching can only get him so far and these prospective HC's know this. *knock knock*. I can't tell you whether or not EJ, specifically is starting material. But I have Alex Smith here. He'd like to talk to you about how he threw more than 800 passes in his first 3 years in the NFL with <58% completion (that was his best year) and <6 ypa on average. Then after being benched for a year, he came back and looked servicable but meh. With different coaching in KC, he'd like to talk to you about his 7.0 AY/A and his 63% completion rate Coaching does matter. So does experience and time in the NFL sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think that EJ has shown clutch play in the fourth quarter of tight games. SJ and Chandler are the two that harpooned the 2013 season in the game against the Falcons. EJ hit them both on key pass plays that would have set them up for the win. He's also shown the ability in his limited opportunities of hitting WRs on deep patterns. Huh? Tuel and Thad threw better deep balls than EJ. So a few good plays, and he can be Eli Manning, a surefire HoFer. I wish I was that optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Huh? Tuel and Thad threw better deep balls than EJ. So a few good plays, and he can be Eli Manning, a surefire HoFer. I wish I was that optimistic. You're talking about 3 or 4 passes combined with Tuel and Thad compared to EJ's 14 game sample size? That's ridiculous. All I'm saying is that I think EJ throws a very good deep ball. It's one of his positives that were never accentuated because of Morrone's "don't take any chances" offense. The Bills need to let EJ throw it deep 5 or 6 times a game and live with 1 extra interception per game doing this, because I think it would lead to 10 extra points per game for the Bills. I see a 10:5 ratio of added points for us and added points for them if they take that many shots down field. It would also have the added benefit of loosening up the defense for the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) You're talking about 3 or 4 passes combined with Tuel and Thad compared to EJ's 14 game sample size? That's ridiculous. All I'm saying is that I think EJ throws a very good deep ball. It's one of his positives that were never accentuated because of Morrone's "don't take any chances" offense. The Bills need to let EJ throw it deep 5 or 6 times a game and live with 1 extra interception per game doing this, because I think it would lead to 10 extra points per game for the Bills. I see a 10:5 ratio of added points for us and added points for them if they take that many shots down field. It would also have the added benefit of loosening up the defense for the running game. Clearly, Manuel needs to improve on his deeper passes, as there’s a sharp decline in his completion percentage on passes twenty or more yards downfield (30.2 percent in 2013). 35 percent of the 43 deep attempts were on target, while another 30 percent were overthrown. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-analysis-all-22/2014/5/28/5755028/ej-manuel-stats-classifying-rookie-season-incompletions I don't think so. And yes. Thad and Tuel both have a smaller sample size, and I have reason to believe they completed more passes per attempt over 20 yards than EJ. Edited January 12, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I'm not going to read 18 pages, but is there anyone who doesn't want Rex to revive EJ? After all, he is the only NFL QB currently on the team. Edited January 12, 2015 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Clearly, Manuel needs to improve on his deeper passes, as there’s a sharp decline in his completion percentage on passes twenty or more yards downfield (30.2 percent in 2013). 35 percent of the 43 deep attempts were on target, while another 30 percent were overthrown. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-analysis-all-22/2014/5/28/5755028/ej-manuel-stats-classifying-rookie-season-incompletions I don't think so. And yes. Thad and Tuel both have a smaller sample size, and I have reason to believe they completed more passes per attempt over 20 yards than EJ. Going by that chart, Manuel is near 50% on a passes 30-40 yard passes either being caught or called a drop by the receiver. That range just might be his "wheel house". I'm not saying he's great, just that I think he's got a feel for the deep pass and that the deep passing game should be expanded in the new offense. With more reps doing it those percentages should get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 *knock knock*. I can't tell you whether or not EJ, specifically is starting material. But I have Alex Smith here. He'd like to talk to you about how he threw more than 800 passes in his first 3 years in the NFL with <58% completion (that was his best year) and <6 ypa on average. Then after being benched for a year, he came back and looked servicable but meh. With different coaching in KC, he'd like to talk to you about his 7.0 AY/A and his 63% completion rate Coaching does matter. So does experience and time in the NFL sometimes. I think this is for Chan and Kelly83!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 *knock knock*. I can't tell you whether or not EJ, specifically is starting material. But I have Alex Smith here. He'd like to talk to you about how he threw more than 800 passes in his first 3 years in the NFL with <58% completion (that was his best year) and <6 ypa on average. Then after being benched for a year, he came back and looked servicable but meh. With different coaching in KC, he'd like to talk to you about his 7.0 AY/A and his 63% completion rate Coaching does matter. So does experience and time in the NFL sometimes. Alex Smith is an interesting comparison. As you noted, he is on his second team and still inching along his development curve. (I would say his last year in SF was his best year, btw.) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 RE Deep passes..... Is that a function of EJ or the plays called for him? I saw a lot of deep balls thrown this past weekend... Quite a few of them were well off target. Do the EJ detractors blame him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 RE Deep passes..... Is that a function of EJ or the plays called for him? I saw a lot of deep balls thrown this past weekend... Quite a few of them were well off target. Do the EJ detractors blame him too? Did we call "bad" deep plays? Don't really understand the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Did we call "bad" deep plays? Don't really understand the question.I think he's saying that the deep plays were bad choices based on the players' inability to execute them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Alex Smith is an interesting comparison. As you noted, he is on his second team and still inching along his development curve. (I would say his last year in SF was his best year, btw.) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm EJ has actually threw tds to wrs too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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