Polian's Advice to the Pegulas

[dave mcbride]

For the record, seantrel henderson is not a good player at all. At least yet.

[chris heff]

You set the bar pretty low for HITS

Watkins I'll give you

Woods is just another guy, 63rd in the league

Henderson as the season went on was a turnstile

Goodwin one catch

Richardson and Koju can;t find the field

Dixon 43rd in the league

MWilliams 8 catches

Brown 126 yards

 

Did we mention EJ?

 

Yeah Whaley can't scout offensive players

Woods, second year bad OC bad QBs

Henderson, rookie

Goodwin, see Woods

Richardson and Kujo, rookies

Dixon, third back

Williams, took the money, still worth a sixth rounder

Brown, fourth back

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

 

Since Whaley has been GM:

 

Offensive guys they have hit on in the Draft: Watkins, Woods, Henderson, Goodwin.

• Richardson/Kouadijio are still ? but could be good who knows... Doug never played them. Out of the 8 offensive players drafted the Bills have hit on 4 for sure, possibly 5 or 6. I'd say thats pretty good especially since 2-3 of those are high impact players.

 

Offensive guys they have hit on in FA: Boobie Dixon.

 

• Only other FA pick up was Chris Williams and he didn't play an entire season so it's hard to know but let's say he's a miss. Dixon is still very very nice pick up.

 

Offensive guys traded or picked up: Mike Williams, Marqueis Gray, Bryce Brown

 

• Mike Williams apparently was on Dougs **** list or didn't fit his scheme which is a bit odd. Marqueis Gray is interesting and is a nice FB/TE combo. Brown looked good except for the fumble but again didn't see the field a ton, why? who knows.

 

 

So you telling me they don't know how to scout offensive players?

Really? Let me try. They don't know how to scout offensive players! They can't evaluate OL talent at all.

Worst OL in football after "addressing" the OL with three picks and a FA? Cost us the playoffs for sure.

 

Middle of the road QBs look very good behind talented OLs. There are no great QBs playing behind bad OLs.

 

The year is summed up by the hard and cold statistical reality of 13 yards rushing @ Oakland when it mattered.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16034/bills-offensive-line-ranks-31st-in-bruschis-index

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

Let me spend two 1st and a 4th and I bet I can get an adequate WR every time. Thing is, Watkins grades out as the fourth best rookie WR this year, not the future HoF he is made out to be. Guess time will tell. Goodwin appears to be a track star and little else.

 

To answer your Brown question - BECAUSE HE FUMBLES! Always has, likely always will.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Bills Fan of Maryland

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

who was fired??

 

Don't for get that there was one guy fired, the only guy who was fired, during this mess. That's where people should be shifting their attention.

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't know if that happened, but it is entirely possible. These two don't like each other. For all I know, whaley traded for mike williams to antagonize marrone. Why else would marrone seem so vindictive toward williams??

Marrone did pick him up from the airport. I doubt if Whaley traded for him just to spite Marrone or Marrone really didn't want him that he would have gone to get him.

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

This is silly.

Who are you comparing Woods to? All R2 picks in their 2nd year?

Calling Henderson a turnstile without any data? Is that how you grade a 7th rounder?

Dixon was brought in mainly for STs, and was their 3rd back. He had the highest yards per carry on the Bills. Who are you comparing him to?

Richardson, any other 5th round picks start some games?

Kujo, yes, expected more. However, most scouting reports said he was raw. It's too early to judge Whaley on this pick.

 

You really have not made much of a case against Whaley.

So Marrone's decision to bench Urbik and move Pears pushed them down from 22 to 32....

Yes, maybe lower. Pears was abysmal! I think he was a lower end RT, but playing him at OG and then continuing to do so after he failed miserably time and time again was surreal. Henderson made more sense at OG and leave Pears at RT. The biggest knock was he couldn't run block, but was an average pass blocker. Williams was a horrible signing by all accounts. How could anyone expect Cyril to contribute, let alone start after watching him in the Senior Bowl? Did you see the game? JFHC! I've never seen a player perform so far below expectation. I was embarrassed for him and that was before we selected him as he plummeted down the draft board. Passed over by all other teams when he was originally thought to be a low end #1! What don't we get?

 

All three OL picks may pan out over time, but OL was our greatest need going into the 2014 draft and we squandered our stellar D play this year by gambling on Watkins as a future HoFer and then reaching for each OL pick. It didn't work, did it?

 

Anyway, we can argue all day about what could have been, should have been. As a Bills fan, I was embarrassed by 13 yards rushing against the freaking two win Oakland Raiders where we made Kamil Mack look like the second coming of Dick Butkis, Tommy Nobiss, and Mike Curtis just to date myself.

[TPS]

Yes, maybe lower. Pears was abysmal! I think he was a lower end RT, but playing him at OG and then continuing to do so after he failed miserably time and time again was surreal. Henderson made more sense at OG and leave Pears at RT. The biggest knock was he couldn't run block, but was an average pass blocker. Williams was a horrible signing by all accounts. How could anyone expect Cyril to contribute, let alone start after watching him in the Senior Bowl? Did you see the game? JFHC! I've never seen a player perform so far below expectation. I was embarrassed for him and that was before we selected him as he plummeted down the draft board. Passed over by all other teams when he was originally thought to be a low end #1! What don't we get?

 

All three OL picks may pan out over time, but OL was our greatest need going into the 2014 draft and we squandered our stellar D play this year by gambling on Watkins as a future HoFer and then reaching for each OL pick. It didn't work, did it?

 

Anyway, we can argue all day about what could have been, should have been. As a Bills fan, I was embarrassed by 13 yards rushing against the freaking two win Oakland Raiders where we made Kamil Mack look like the second coming of Dick Butkis, Tommy Nobiss, and Mike Curtis just to date myself.

who would you have selected instead?

Btw, for one, it's hard to call Richardson a reach in R5; two, whaley's trade down in R2 from 41 to 44 got the bills that R5 pick.

[chris heff]

Yes, maybe lower. Pears was abysmal! I think he was a lower end RT, but playing him at OG and then continuing to do so after he failed miserably time and time again was surreal. Henderson made more sense at OG and leave Pears at RT. The biggest knock was he couldn't run block, but was an average pass blocker. Williams was a horrible signing by all accounts. How could anyone expect Cyril to contribute, let alone start after watching him in the Senior Bowl? Did you see the game? JFHC! I've never seen a player perform so far below expectation. I was embarrassed for him and that was before we selected him as he plummeted down the draft board. Passed over by all other teams when he was originally thought to be a low end #1! What don't we get?

 

All three OL picks may pan out over time, but OL was our greatest need going into the 2014 draft and we squandered our stellar D play this year by gambling on Watkins as a future HoFer and then reaching for each OL pick. It didn't work, did it?

 

Anyway, we can argue all day about what could have been, should have been. As a Bills fan, I was embarrassed by 13 yards rushing against the freaking two win Oakland Raiders where we made Kamil Mack look like the second coming of Dick Butkis, Tommy Nobiss, and Mike Curtis just to date myself.

So MR. GM who would you have picked up in FA and who would you have drafted? And how is it that some of these OL players were so much better in Chan's offense?

[MarkyMannn]

Woods, second year bad OC bad QBs

Henderson, rookie

Goodwin, see Woods

Richardson and Kujo, rookies

Dixon, third back

Williams, took the money, still worth a sixth rounder

Brown, fourth back

Keep making excuses

[BADOLBILZ]

For the record, seantrel henderson is not a good player at all. At least yet.

 

He looked like a revelation for a rookie at LT in preseason and immediately looked mediocre at RT.

 

Glenn dropped off a cliff this year too.

 

I can see the much talked about moving of Henderson and Glenn to LT and LG respectively. While the *better* pass rushers tend to be opposite the LT a lot of teams have 2 very good pass rushers now. It's a pass rushing league. They both gotta' pass block now. Even so, if Glenn doesn't play better next year he won't be the great guard everyone assumes he will.

[Reed83HOF]

 

He looked like a revelation for a rookie at LT in preseason and immediately looked mediocre at RT.

 

Glenn dropped off a cliff this year too.

 

 

I thought Marrone focused most of his time working with the OL

[Wayne Cubed]

Really? Let me try. They don't know how to scout offensive players! They can't evaluate OL talent at all.

Worst OL in football after "addressing" the OL with three picks and a FA? Cost us the playoffs for sure.

 

Middle of the road QBs look very good behind talented OLs. There are no great QBs playing behind bad OLs.

 

The year is summed up by the hard and cold statistical reality of 13 yards rushing @ Oakland when it mattered.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16034/bills-offensive-line-ranks-31st-in-bruschis-index

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

Let me spend two 1st and a 4th and I bet I can get an adequate WR every time. Thing is, Watkins grades out as the fourth best rookie WR this year, not the future HoF he is made out to be. Guess time will tell. Goodwin appears to be a track star and little else.

 

To answer your Brown question - BECAUSE HE FUMBLES! Always has, likely always will.

 

Middle of the road QB's look good behind good OL's? Really, thats your argument? Wow.

 

Let me ask you this, how the heck do you know for certain the OL players are any good based on the fact that the departing coach, a former OL coach and player, was supposedly coaching them up? How come Glenn regressed? Couldn't possible be the coaching could it... nope, every player drafted either has it or doesn't, there are no coached up players. BTW, Jerry Hughes says hello.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Wayne Cubed

[Doc]

During the Ralph Wilson years the team was mostly built thru the draft, if you needed a player then you better wait for those rookie contracts.

 

Common sense says Morrone needed a few physical OG's but for some reason the Bills did nothing.

 

Just because the coach says he needs something does mean he is smarter then everyone else.

The Bills addressed the OG situation. They had Urbik, who had a decent 2013 season. They drafted Cyril Richardson, a first-team all-Big 12 and All American. And they signed Chris Williams.

 

The Mike Williams thing was surreal.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Marrone hated that move as well.

[zonabb]

The only argument that is valid is for someone to go and show how the FA moves and the drafted players from Whaley are worse than every other GM out there. It's about context, which people either intentionally or ignorantly ignore. If you're going to JUST point out the bad, that's an obvious bias because it conveniently allows you to ignore the good. First you need to start, or better yet accept, that no GM is perfect. I read this morning that 31% of the players on 2013 rosters were undrafted free agents. That should tell you how much of a crap shoot the draft is. If you look at the 2011-2014 drafts, those with Whaley in some vapacity (I leave out 2010 since he was only here a few months and I'm not sure how much of a role he played), they are the best drafts this team has had in terms of hitting on the early picks, which is what you must do. Yeah, EJ hasn't panned out, but there's a lot to be said for the value of the position and the tend to overdraft QBs just to try and get one. If we look at that draft, all the QBs sucked and because they were dead set on picking one, you could argue that they were destined to fail. Sure they could have not picked one, which has been rounded decried on this board by those stating the Patriots have drafted more QBs since Brady than the Bills. But outside that, three of the four first rounders during this time are Dareus, Gilmore, Watkins. Not a bust in the bunch and most would suggest Gilmore and Watkins are likely pro bowlers. Contrast that to 2006-2009 (again leaving out 2010, altough it was Spiller so make what you want of it)... Whitner, Lynch, McKelvin, Maybin. In terms of careers, I'd say one has done very well but we traded him. One was one of the buggest busts ever. The other two, McKelvin and Whitner, has not played up to their top 11 draft slots. Prior to that, going back to 2000, first round picks were Flowers, Clements, Mike Wlliams, McGahee, Evans, and Losman. Two good ones, Evans and Clements, another RB they traded away and three more monster busts in Flowers, Wiliiams and Losman.

 

The point here is, you have to hit on the first rounders. It's obvious from the team and the league that first round QBs are a crap shoot and honestly, you should expect a lot of busts. But the rest of the time, you have to nail them because of the talent level and Whaley's time here they've done well. Throw in the 2nd and 3rd rounders as players who can and should contribute as starters if not as backups, you have Aaron Williams, Sheppard (who became HIghes), Searcy (a 4th actually), Cordy Glenn, Bradham (4th), Woods, Alonso, Preston Brown. A few in there have fizzled or underwhelmed like Goodwin, Graham and Kouandjio.

 

If you expect 7 starters every year from the draft, you're not paying attention. 27 players were drafted and didn't make rosters last year, about 10% of drafted players. And all were from rounds 5-7. So put another way, 27 out of 116 picks (includes the awarded compensatory picks) didn't make it. That's 24% of late rounders and a number likely similar every year.

 

 

This team has made a concerted effort to draft better, they've stated that building through the draft is how to sustain winning football and his record and contribution is pretty good at this point. If you want to offer up a better GM to replace him that's currently available, go for it but I don't know that person exists right now. You'd be taking a guy who is what Whaley was 5 years ago. Young with potential.

 

This is a good read on the historical effiicient of picks by team. Buffalo ranks a putrid 30th. The team Whaley was cut his teeth with and learned how it's done? Second.

[BADOLBILZ]

I thought Marrone focused most of his time working with the OL

 

 

One of many things to be unsatisfied with about Marrone.

 

Retaining him as HC was at best a 50/50 for me. And probably half of the good 50% was simply continuity.

 

It's too bad that so many on this board can't be objective when discussing the team.

[buffalobillsfootball]

Marrone simply forget he was coach of the Buffalo Bills; not owner.

[MattM]

 

He looked like a revelation for a rookie at LT in preseason and immediately looked mediocre at RT.

 

Glenn dropped off a cliff this year too.

 

I can see the much talked about moving of Henderson and Glenn to LT and LG respectively. While the *better* pass rushers tend to be opposite the LT a lot of teams have 2 very good pass rushers now. It's a pass rushing league. They both gotta' pass block now. Even so, if Glenn doesn't play better next year he won't be the great guard everyone assumes he will.

Remember, however, that Glenn also missed all of TC with a mystery injury, so I'd cut him some slack, personally.

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

One of many things to be unsatisfied with about Marrone.

 

Retaining him as HC was at best a 50/50 for me. And probably half of the good 50% was simply continuity.

 

It's too bad that so many on this board can't be objective when discussing the team.

Most of the board is pissing back and forth and it has changed a lot. You are correct about needing 2 good tackles in the current league. The Guard play was atrocious this past year and LG was a huge concern the year before. It obviously effected the entire OL; Wood didn't look that good and Glenn looked pretty bad at times. Henderson had a slow footed RT playing RG. Honestly the whole offense is a mess...