dave mcbride Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I have no problem with the pass on third and one -- the play was there and the run game was putrid all day. I also don't disagree with the punt - it's very rare to convert a 3rd and 22, and hats off to both Carr and the 6'4" receiver (can't recall his name). That said, I think the logic behind this thread (the analysis of the all 22) is off because Orton was about to be killed if he turned to his right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Sorry to ruin the slow clap moment for you by introducing doubt into your screenshot. That screenshot somehow was supposed to let us know that we lost the game because of a 3rd and 22. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 This 3rd and 1, before the "no punt" looks just as bad for Orton, Hackett, Marrone, The Bills, My parents, and everyone involved: really no one open there, was hoping they were going to run, really not a fan of those out routs, especially on short yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 really no one open there, was hoping they were going to run, really not a fan of those out routs, especially on short yardage. This is not on Orton. Orton only has 1 place to go with the football here. Coming out of the bunch formation, two receivers run down the field and block. They aren't options. The Raiders corner reads the play and puts himself between the QB and the WR to defend the smoke screen. And he does exactly that. It's a trivial play design run into a defense that is ready for it. There are 2 blockers and 4 defenders. The play doesn't have a good chance of success as the Raiders are pressing the bunch and prepared for the smoke screen. What's interesting is the entire Raiders defense shifts toward their right other than the mike and Woodson. They have zero respect for the Bills running. I suspect they also played the tendencies that the Bills were unlikely to sneak Chandler out for an easy toss and catch as well. Woodson is 5 yards off, so there would be a chance to pick up 1 yard there. PS: This could go in the Eric Wood thread too. This shows Wood blocking on roller skates here. It is impressive how quickly and deep he is blown backwards and the pocket collapses. Chandler also almost completely whiffs on his block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Terrible play call and design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) its a 'rub' play coming out of the bunch.. different ways to run it, but looks like the #2 (Woods) came off the line too quick to pick the DB who came up to the line defend the #3 (Hogan). if that DB were off the line a yard or two, Woods could have run a quick Z route (slant across his face, and then angle out) - but since the DB was too close, Woods should have delayed coming off, or even hitched back as if receiving a bubble screen. not a bad call, but Wood wasn't ready to execute it as defended. somebody really has to get Hackett's nose out of the play book and get him onto the practice field. sloppy execution continues to bite his O in the ass. Edited December 24, 2014 by BackInDaDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 its a 'rub' play coming out of the bunch.. different ways to run it, but looks like the #2 (Woods) came off the line too quick to pick the DB who came up to the line defend the #3 (Hogan). if that DB were off the line a yard or two, Woods could have run a quick Z route (slant across his face, and then angle out) - but since the DB was too close, Woods should have delayed coming off, or even hitched back as if receiving a bubble screen. not a bad call, but Wood wasn't ready to execute it as defended. somebody really has to get Hackett's nose out of the play book and get him onto the practice field. sloppy execution continues to bite his O in the ass. Fair point. It's far from clear that the players didn't just !@#$ up their assignments as well. I was going with the assumption that the design was for him to fire out and drive block since that's what he does. Hogan's jab step does give him a little separation, but the tight corner recognizes the situation almost immediately and reacts quickly and correctly. I've seen enough of this offense to believe that defenses are very dialed in to what Can't Hackett is calling. I don't think making Hackett practice (with or without pads) is a short-term solution to make up his lack of experience. He's getting paid to get schooled at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I don't think making Hackett practice (with or without pads) is a short-term solution to make up his lack of experience. He's getting paid to get schooled at this point. i didn't mean that Hackett should practice, if that's behind your answer - but that might be fun to see.. i meant that Hackett should be playing a constant game of 'what if', fueled by conversations with his defensive coaches about how they'd defend particular formations in various situations - followed by practicing the executiuon of plays against what he might encounter. it's the fear of missing some small aspect of preparation that keeps the best coaches awake at night, but Nate's constant smile reminds me of that old saying ~ ignorance is bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmsbills Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Stop with all that common sense why our coach believes Orton gives us the better chance to Win. I would like to know what film he is watching. I guess not the game films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Ive been saying this for weeks: Orton pre-determines where he is going with the football 95% of the time before it is even snapped. The guy has very limited mobility and combined with our terrible blocking decides where his best shot is on the field before the play begins. Often times this leads him to either A: Snapping and gunning an inaccurate throw like you see above B. Lack of plays where he stands in the pocket and assesses the field for his 2nd or 3rd read. Anybody notice on Sammys TD play (One of the only ones we executed all season) a perfect pocket formed for Orton and he went to his 3rd or 4th progression? The guy is capable but its a combination of him being limited skillset wise and bad Oline play that makes our offense so bad. If you gave orton a wall I bet he would be a lot better than he is right now. The problem is and always will be is that Ortons play will deteriorate when his pocket collaspes and he gets pressured, and I dont think he'll ever be able to to overcome that like the best franchise QBs do. Which means that he may be an adequate starter for next year if he works his butt off in the offseason and improves his mobility, but we still need to find a new guy. While I'm not saying Orton is good, the fact is that he's getting the balls out of his hands faster than most other QBs in the NFL. My guess it's because he has no confidence in the offensive line. (Orton's snap to attempt time is 2.32 seconds, third fastest of 27 qualifiers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 i didn't mean that Hackett should practice, if that's behind your answer - but that might be fun to see.. i meant that Hackett should be playing a constant game of 'what if', fueled by conversations with his defensive coaches about how they'd defend particular formations in various situations - followed by practicing the executiuon of plays against what he might encounter. it's the fear of missing some small aspect of preparation that keeps the best coaches awake at night, but Nate's constant smile reminds me of that old saying ~ ignorance is bliss I knew what you meant. Can't Hackett was a curious hire at the time. Two years in, it looks more like a serious blunder on Marrone's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I knew what you meant. Can't Hackett was a curious hire at the time. Two years in, it looks more like a serious blunder on Marrone's part. Not really a curious hire when you think about it. Marrones an offense guy, he hired a stooge to run his offense. Payton did it, McCarthy did it, Reid did it, etc... All the big offensive minded coaches hire stooges to run their offense. Even Arians did it, he hired his old OL coach Harold Goodwin who had no OC experience. These guys want someone who shares there philosophy and will implement it. This is Marrones offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Not really a curious hire when you think about it. Marrones an offense guy, he hired a stooge to run his offense. Payton did it, McCarthy did it, Reid did it, etc... All the big offensive minded coaches hire stooges to run their offense. Even Arians did it, he hired his old OL coach Harold Goodwin who had no OC experience. These guys want someone who shares there philosophy and will implement it. This is Marrones offense. That's all well and good...but Hackett calls the plays, which is a way different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Turbosrrgood will be on here defending Orton any minute now. LMAO!! Tired of seeing screen grabs like this one: Let's hope, Mr.Marrone, that this is NOT one of the things EJs learning from Orton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) I saw that yesterday. First off the free safety is already reacting to Orton throwing the ball, but he still had three receivers open and he went after the guy double coveraged. If he could pump fake there, he has a touchdown deep over the middle or he's going to get sacked, which seems more likely. I bet you can find 2 or 3 of these every game from most QB. But it's especially painful knowing how the game turned out. Edited December 24, 2014 by KRT88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 That's all well and good...but Hackett calls the plays, which is a way different animal. I'm sure they plan there first couple series and would bet money that Marrone determines those play calls. Also the overall philosphy of the offense is Marrones. And Marrone has admitted that he will sometimes during the game say what he wants called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 1 play proves nothing. Anyone else notice how when a drive is scripted like the first one of the game the Bills seems to do well? Hackett can not adjust is the problem. He lacks the ability to stay ahead. Orton is not good but neither is Hackett. If you can not tell that after 31 games you don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I'm sure they plan there first couple series and would bet money that Marrone determines those play calls. Also the overall philosphy of the offense is Marrones. And Marrone has admitted that he will sometimes during the game say what he wants called. I see Hackett has having a lot more influence on the in-game offense than the other examples you pointed out... ...but I don't want to argue with you because Marrone is certainly responsible for this often unwatchable offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 In other words: Nate Hackett is awesome. At least that's confirmed now. I wonder if Hackett or Downing could pull orton and put Ej in for an entire half without Marrone knowing it? Pepper Johnson did it, hopefully these guys could too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I'm sure they plan there first couple series and would bet money that Marrone determines those play calls. Also the overall philosphy of the offense is Marrones. And Marrone has admitted that he will sometimes during the game say what he wants called. They certainly script the first chunk- Id be curious to see the efficiency of the first 10ish plays vs the rest of the game. My gut has been we get one of our extended scoring drives out of the gate with some semblance of regularity vs mid second quarter drives. Might be in my head though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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