Cyril

[Pete]

Can Cyril Richardson become a solid guard for us? I read his draft bio and the knock was a bad body. Can he build up his strength and be a quality starter? If Cyril, kugo, or Chris Williams could become a quality, reliable starter that would free up draft and free agent needs. Or do we just need 3 new guards?

[Green Lightning]

He looked lost and slow. Then again, he was tossed into the fray too early by my thinking. Supposedly the biggest jump in a player comes after the rookie year. He's played enough to know what to expect and should know what he needs to work on. Guess we'll see next TC.

[Pirate Angel]

We need 1 quality starting guard...between what we have with urbick and Williams we can man one

[boyst]

I'm telling ya the easiest way we might fix our OL is to draft BPA on the OL. That could easily come by drafting an OC. I'm fine with moving Eric Wood to LG or RG. I think he's more suited for RG, but he is pretty nimble and could play LG.

 

Hell, just looking at Astro's site... maybe OC Reese Dismukes from Auburn in the 3rd or 4th after Heuerman and getting AJ McCann (USC) or Landon Turner (UNC).

 

Kouandjio's brother, Arie Kouandjio, is also a top recruit out of Alabama. On Drafttek's big 300 board at #64. Maybe we could just swap Kouandjio's, giving ours back?

Edited December 16, 2014 by jboyst62

[Pete]

I'm telling ya the easiest way we might fix our OL is to draft BPA on the OL. That could easily come by drafting an OC. I'm fine with moving Eric Wood to LG or RG. I think he's more suited for RG, but he is pretty nimble and could play LG.

so do you think all we need is to add one quality lineman and we will have a good line? I want a smash mouth line that can win the battle of 4th and 1!

[boyst]

so do you think all we need is to add one quality lineman and we will have a good line? I want a smash mouth line that can win the battle of 4th and 1!

I think if we can go OL x 2, TE & RB/TE in the first four picks we will be set. I don't know much about the RB's this year to know if there is one I am looking for, but I'd like someone who is more a hybrid pass catcher then a runner. It depends what we do with Spiller, though.

 

Otherwise, I want two OL and two TE's. One a project TE and Chandler for goal line and the starter someone who can play like Graham.

[FireChan]

so do you think all we need is to add one quality lineman and we will have a good line? I want a smash mouth line that can win the battle of 4th and 1!

 

I think we'll have an above average line with one guard. That's assuming that Glenn and Wood have bounce back years and Seantrel improves a little.

[thewildrabbit]

I'm telling ya the easiest way we might fix our OL is to draft BPA on the OL. That could easily come by drafting an OC. I'm fine with moving Eric Wood to LG or RG. I think he's more suited for RG, but he is pretty nimble and could play LG.

Finding a quality offensive center is a lot tougher then finding a quality OG in my view, and do you recall what happened every year when Woods went on IR? The team struggled at the center position for the rest of the year.

 

so do you think all we need is to add one quality lineman and we will have a good line? I want a smash mouth line that can win the battle of 4th and 1!

You and me both brother!

 

I was hoping to eventually see the Bills O line become a solid unit under Marrone, and now I find out he wanted changes and the FO said no!

[Captain_Quint]

 

Kouandjio's brother, Arie Kouandjio, is also a top recruit out of Alabama. On Drafttek's big 300 board at #64. Maybe we could just swap Kouandjio's, giving ours back?

 

Wrong answer. We need ALL of the Kouandjios!

[3rdand12]

so do you think all we need is to add one quality lineman and we will have a good line? I want a smash mouth line that can win the battle of 4th and 1!

I love E Woods heart. But he is getting blown off the ball too much lately.

Maybe that can be fixed with a stronger/more able guard?

Since Urbik got his second game in Woods is looking off.

And we have NEVER gotten a push in short yardage much less goaline from the interior guys. I can only imagine what the Bills would look like with they could get the 3rd and 2 or 4th and ones

[vincec]

Bills OL regressed across the board this season IMO. To me, that points to coaching or scheme and not individual players.

[klos63]

just one of those annoying things. OC is offensive coordinator, no need to refer to offensive center - there is no defensive center. Center has been accepted as the term for probably 100 years.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I think if we can go OL x 2, TE & RB/TE in the first four picks we will be set. I don't know much about the RB's this year to know if there is one I am looking for, but I'd like someone who is more a hybrid pass catcher then a runner. It depends what we do with Spiller, though.

 

Otherwise, I want two OL and two TE's. One a project TE and Chandler for goal line and the starter someone who can play like Graham.

We'll be set except we'll still have no quality quarterback. It's like a baseball team with eight solid position players but no quality pitcher. You lose!

[thewildrabbit]

Bills OL regressed across the board this season IMO. To me, that points to coaching or scheme and not individual players.

I agree.

 

The thing I don't get the reason for shoving Richardson into the lineup so quickly when clearly Urbik was the better player. Usually teams develop young linemen by letting them cut their teeth on special teams where a misstep isn't nearly as critical. Then, it seems everyone is playing poorly, and getting penalties when they shouldn't be at this point in the season. The Rookie at RT looks to be playing somewhat well.

[NewEra]

I'd be fine drafting 3 OL with our first 3 picks. Build a beast running game to go with our beast defense. Win the wars in the trenches. I doubt we find our QB of the future this offseason, so we NEED to give our defense some help on O. If we don't make the playoffs, its because our QB, OL and play calling (yep). If we can't fix the QB, I'm hoping to fix the OL and OC.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I never hear anything about the O-line coach. Is he immune to criticism? He doesn't appear to be getting the job done!

[Rockinon]

I have a theory on the OL. I do not pretend to be an expert on this subject and could be very far off the mark so don't beat me up too bad over this. During the draft, the Bills were clearly trying to fix the OL. 3 of them were brought in.....THREE!!

 

The problem I think is Marone. He has been preaching all year to the players to stop making excuses, stay focused on the game and just play. This same philosophy has been applied to the offensive line. We have some big OLmen. Marone, I think is pushing them to be physical.....beat your man and the offense will win it's matchups.

 

The problem is and this was revealed very early against the Chargers. Their defense never allowed the OL to get a bead on them. Instead they ran a bunch of stunts and misdirection to confuse the OL. It worked perfectly and since, every defense we have played is mixing things up on their DLines. The offense has had some success but they certainly have not caught up with what defenses are doing to them. You cannot beat your man if the guy backs up goes around another OLman unless linemen learn to communicate and hand off a block to the guy next to him.

 

I think these big linemen are big enough and strong enough. Not sure if they are smart enough yet. Not sure if they are nimble enough either. Defenses are attacking in different ways. These guys need to figure out the flaws to their game and Marone and his line coach needs to catch up with the rest of the NFL. You can't just tell these guys to beat your man. You also have to find ways to beat stunts and misdirection.

 

I have seen the Bills use more max protect schemes with success but they really need to be better at teaching the OLmen to help each other.

 

I never hear anything about the O-line coach. Is he immune to criticism? He doesn't appear to be getting the job done!

I think you may be on to something. Edited December 17, 2014 by Rockinon

[rumblefish]

anyone have a take on Brandon Shell as a possible draft pick

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I have a theory on the OL. I do not pretend to be an expert on this subject and could be very far off the mark so don't beat me up too bad over this. During the draft, the Bills were clearly trying to fix the OL. 3 of them were brought in.....THREE!!

 

The problem I think is Marone. He has been preaching all year to the players to stop making excuses, stay focused on the game and just play. This same philosophy has been applied to the offensive line. We have some big OLmen. Marone, I think is pushing them to be physical.....beat your man and the offense will win it's matchups.

 

The problem is and this was revealed very early against the Chargers. Their defense never allowed the OL to get a bead on them. Instead they ran a bunch of stunts and misdirection to confuse the OL. It worked perfectly and since, every defense we have played is mixing things up on their DLines. The offense has had some success but they certainly have not caught up with what defenses are doing to them. You cannot beat your man if the guy backs up goes around another OLman unless linemen learn to communicate and hand off a block to the guy next to him.

 

I think these big linemen are big enough and strong enough. Not sure if they are smart enough yet. Not sure if they are nimble enough either. Defenses are attacking in different ways. These guys need to figure out the flaws to their game and Marone and his line coach needs to catch up with the rest of the NFL. You can't just tell these guys to beat your man. You also have to find ways to beat stunts and misdirection.

 

I have seen the Bills use more max protect schemes with success but they really need to be better at teaching the OLmen to help each other.

 

I think you may be on to something.

I mean we drafted three guys who were all prospects. We brought in a FA. We had 4 returning guys who were good enough to run with last year. Chris Hairston is back and was serviceable. We had all these JJ Unga type guys that we loved at one time and then cut them because we had better guys. Jeez all I see is that we added talent to a decent line and then regressed! Who's fault is that?

[boyst]

We'll be set except we'll still have no quality quarterback. It's like a baseball team with eight solid position players but no quality pitcher. You lose!

yep. And so we are

 

We can't pull a QB out of thin air. We would bet the farm to try to get someone decent and hope he pans out by trading for someone. And that guy would be like Cutler, Tannehill, Bradford or Stafford. And they're all garbage.

 

We can try to draft one with one of our picks but I don't have much faith in this years class.

 

We might as well get as much makeup as we can and work on getting a fancy wig because we are going to end up dancing with this pig for another year.

 

Trading for Brees or anyone else is silly. Leverage the future and trajectory we are setting on a whim for one or two years of payoff? No thanks.

 

Upgrade the TE. Fix the OL. And Ralph is cheap. That's all it will take to make this pig dance.

[rumblefish]

ah, Ralph is gone

[Max997]

He didn't look like he even belongs in the league

[3rdand12]

I mean we drafted three guys who were all prospects. We brought in a FA. We had 4 returning guys who were good enough to run with last year. Chris Hairston is back and was serviceable. We had all these JJ Unga type guys that we loved at one time and then cut them because we had better guys. Jeez all I see is that we added talent to a decent line and then regressed! Who's fault is that?

You guys Are onto something.

Anybody know the name of the O Line coach or recognize him in a picture ?

Its Pat Morris.

I think he is an old school type. But the Man has been around and seen it all. This is a Marrone Guy. Very good point when just talking about stunts and passing off attackers. I might guess even though its a zone. Marrone and Morrris are very focused with hat on hat wins. I think its a team philosophy out to WR.

I like the concept but the O line needs more finesse. Not Gailey ,Joe D style . Well maybe a little Chan/ Joe D ?

If the center and guards cant get push off scrimmage, and they dont , get the quick and or wide stuff going.

 

On the other hand Bills did not exactly ADD talent. Because its a theoretical still.

C Williams got all injured right off and the LG position became a focal point quickly.

Henderson is just a perfect balance of smarts and effort from the Bills staff.

Lets see how the other rooks shake out in otas etc.

Its up to the staff to develop them. That is one thing I have faith in actually. Regardless of the negatives the game day O line showed this year still holdin out hope for Cyril +1 and even Kujo-

Edited December 17, 2014 by 3rdand12

[T master]

Can Cyril Richardson become a solid guard for us? I read his draft bio and the knock was a bad body. Can he build up his strength and be a quality starter? If Cyril, kugo, or Chris Williams could become a quality, reliable starter that would free up draft and free agent needs. Or do we just need 3 new guards?

 

If Marrone is this great offensive minded line coach & has put the right people in place to teach these guys then there should be no question about this guy ...

 

Whaley & his guys have been lights out in finding good talent & i think this Cyril will be a good pick up he like Kugo just needs the coaches to coach them up , but if this staff isn't what some think it is (& i don't think it is) then these guys will go to another team & flourish & have great NFL careers ...

[TPS]

I agree.

 

The thing I don't get the reason for shoving Richardson into the lineup so quickly when clearly Urbik was the better player. Usually teams develop young linemen by letting them cut their teeth on special teams where a misstep isn't nearly as critical. Then, it seems everyone is playing poorly, and getting penalties when they shouldn't be at this point in the season. The Rookie at RT looks to be playing somewhat well.

I'm sure this has been said in a thread about Marrone or Hackett, but I don't think it's a coincidence that you have a D that is excellent because it uses the DC's system, and the O (and line) stinks, which is based on Marrone/Hackett system.

[FireChan]

If Marrone is this great offensive minded line coach & has put the right people in place to teach these guys then there should be no question about this guy ...

 

Whaley & his guys have been lights out in finding good talent & i think this Cyril will be a good pick up he like Kugo just needs the coaches to coach them up , but if this staff isn't what some think it is (& i don't think it is) then these guys will go to another team & flourish & have great NFL careers ...

 

Dude, he's a fifth round pick. Whaley isn't and will not bat 1.000. To blame the coaches is absurd.

 

What percentage of fifth round picks ever start in the NFL? What percentage wash out?

Edited December 17, 2014 by FireChan

[Don Beebe]

I have a theory on the OL. I do not pretend to be an expert on this subject and could be very far off the mark so don't beat me up too bad over this. During the draft, the Bills were clearly trying to fix the OL. 3 of them were brought in.....THREE!!

 

The problem I think is Marone. He has been preaching all year to the players to stop making excuses, stay focused on the game and just play. This same philosophy has been applied to the offensive line. We have some big OLmen. Marone, I think is pushing them to be physical.....beat your man and the offense will win it's matchups.

 

The problem is and this was revealed very early against the Chargers. Their defense never allowed the OL to get a bead on them. Instead they ran a bunch of stunts and misdirection to confuse the OL. It worked perfectly and since, every defense we have played is mixing things up on their DLines. The offense has had some success but they certainly have not caught up with what defenses are doing to them. You cannot beat your man if the guy backs up goes around another OLman unless linemen learn to communicate and hand off a block to the guy next to him.

 

I think these big linemen are big enough and strong enough. Not sure if they are smart enough yet. Not sure if they are nimble enough either. Defenses are attacking in different ways. These guys need to figure out the flaws to their game and Marone and his line coach needs to catch up with the rest of the NFL. You can't just tell these guys to beat your man. You also have to find ways to beat stunts and misdirection.

 

I have seen the Bills use more max protect schemes with success but they really need to be better at teaching the OLmen to help each other.

 

I think you may be on to something.

This is a very good post. I think beating stunts gets better with experience. Although some of the veterans are never going to get better.

[RealityCheck]

For better or worse, this past season's O-line picks will need time to develop. That's just how it goes. Physical and mental maturity play a big role in this, and it does take time.