rumblefish Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 truth is always "hard and cold" and "bull squat" is "hot and steamy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Why do we have these silly trade scenarios when Hell will freeze over before any team let's their franchise QB go. Not even Cincy would give up Dalton because front office's know it is so hard to fill the QB position. So many misses by many teams. You only get the Brees deal from SD, Manning to the Broncos, or even Alex Smith to KC as a rarity. It just doesn't happen. If you want to discuss something that absolutely would never happen, fine, but it is based in fantasy. Bottom line is we're stuck with Orton, and hopefully we find some diamond in the rough in the 2nd or later rounds for a QB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Bills Fan Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 He slipped my mind. I hate him. But yes. I'd trade a 1 for him and move my wife and daughter into protective custody That's one of the best quotes that I have ever seen on this board. Totally agree with you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Trade a first round pick for a late-career Drew B? What could possibly go wrong? What about Luck would have him ahead of Brees? There have been 8 seasons of 5,000 yards passing in NFL history & 4 of them belong to Brees (probably will have number 5 this year). Brees has more yards & TDs than Brady & is 2 years younger. He is 4th all-time in each of those categories. He is an all-time great & people think that they can flip a future #1 for him? Seriously?!? Past performance is not a predictor of future performance, especially when you're talking about a guy for whom arm strength is not his forte, suddenly playing in Buffalo instead of a dome 8x a year. I wouldn't do this. And I think Brees is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Trade a first round pick for a late-career Drew B? What could possibly go wrong? Past performance is not a predictor of future performance, especially when you're talking about a guy for whom arm strength is not his forte, suddenly playing in Buffalo instead of a dome 8x a year. I wouldn't do this. And I think Brees is amazing. I'm not even talking about past performance. There is a very good chance that he has his 4th straight 5,000 yard season (keep in mind Brees holds 4 of the 8 seasons like that already) this year and somewhere between 35-40 TDs and a QB rating above his career average. Again, because the Saints are bad everyone thinks that it has to do with his regression -it doesn't. I've seen every game that the guy has played since '07 and he has a few good years left. He made a few mistakes early in the season in terms picks but he is still a top 5 QB at worst. One thing that I keep seeing come up here is the name Bledsoe. Bledsoe on his best day had nowhere near the career that Brees has had. He will end up statistically ahead of Marino with at least 1 Super Bowl. We aren't talkng about a pretty good Pro Bowl type QB. We are talking about someone who has had a career that ranks up there with anyone ever. I know that Bills fans don't see a ton of Brees with him being in the NFC South and maybe that has skewed people's opinions. Edited December 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I'm not even talking about past performance. There is a very good chance that he has his 4th straight 5,000 yard season (keep in mind Brees holds 4 of the 8 seasons like that already) this year and somewhere between 35-40 TDs and a QB rating above his career average. Again, because the Saints are bad everyone thinks that it has to do with his regression -it doesn't. I've seen every game that the guy has played since '07 and he has a few good years left. He made a few mistakes early in the season in terms picks but he is still a top 5 QB at worst. One thing that I keep seeing come up here is the name Bledsoe. Bledsoe on his best day had nowhere near the career that Brees has had. He will end up statistically ahead of Marino with at least 1 Super Bowl. We aren't talkng about a pretty good Pro Bowl type QB. We are talking about someone who has had a career that ranks up there with anyone ever. I know that Bills fans don't see a ton of Brees with him being in the NFC South and maybe that has skewed people's opinions. right - we got bledsoe after he lost his job coming of a 59% 6.2 YPA, 17 td 13 INT season. even drews big season in buffalo wasnt THAT great. he was a good, productive player -- but i think part of the issue was the expectations for a productive qb skyrocketed at the same time his ability declined. brees right now year to date is at 70% completions, 7.59 ypa, 31 TDs and 12 ints. hes just had a few at terrible times, or end up in long returns that have ended up getting himself a lot of negative highlights despite a very productive season. his rating is 100+ and QBR 74 (6th in the league, only .1 outside the top 5). espn has some other weird stats i just saw with regards to qb value and points added above replacement, and EPA and stuff and hes top 3 in all that this year. Edited December 17, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 In a freaking heartbeat. With Brees we are instant Super Bowl contenders -- even with schitty guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm not even talking about past performance. There is a very good chance that he has his 4th straight 5,000 yard season (keep in mind Brees holds 4 of the 8 seasons like that already) this year and somewhere between 35-40 TDs and a QB rating above his career average. Again, because the Saints are bad everyone thinks that it has to do with his regression -it doesn't. I've seen every game that the guy has played since '07 and he has a few good years left. He made a few mistakes early in the season in terms picks but he is still a top 5 QB at worst. One thing that I keep seeing come up here is the name Bledsoe. Bledsoe on his best day had nowhere near the career that Brees has had. He will end up statistically ahead of Marino with at least 1 Super Bowl. We aren't talkng about a pretty good Pro Bowl type QB. We are talking about someone who has had a career that ranks up there with anyone ever. I know that Bills fans don't see a ton of Brees with him being in the NFC South and maybe that has skewed people's opinions. I guess one of my biggest points is that he has looked pretty human if not abysmal at times, on the road. I don't think that's just the rah-rah crowd action helping him out. He plays far better in a dome, and Buffalo ain't getting one during his career timeline. And to boot, Buffalo weather is not going to be kind to an older man's arm. We saw how Brady and Manning played come winter last season, and they certainly looked closer to ordinary. None of this takes away from the fact that he is having an all-time great career, I just think Buffalo is not a place that would play to his strengths, as a location. I'd be happy to be wrong and he would be a huge upgrade over what we have, but as you say, the point is a bit moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm not even talking about past performance. There is a very good chance that he has his 4th straight 5,000 yard season (keep in mind Brees holds 4 of the 8 seasons like that already) this year and somewhere between 35-40 TDs and a QB rating above his career average. Again, because the Saints are bad everyone thinks that it has to do with his regression -it doesn't. I've seen every game that the guy has played since '07 and he has a few good years left. He made a few mistakes early in the season in terms picks but he is still a top 5 QB at worst. One thing that I keep seeing come up here is the name Bledsoe. Bledsoe on his best day had nowhere near the career that Brees has had. He will end up statistically ahead of Marino with at least 1 Super Bowl. We aren't talkng about a pretty good Pro Bowl type QB. We are talking about someone who has had a career that ranks up there with anyone ever. I know that Bills fans don't see a ton of Brees with him being in the NFC South and maybe that has skewed people's opinions. If you have watched most of the games for the past number of years you realize how special he is. When ranking him the issue isn't whether he is all-pro or not it is whether he is in the top five qbs in the modern era. His accuracy is impeccable. But what makes him special is his ability to make quick reads and almost instantly go through his progressions. The qb I compare him to who was able to do it at such a fast pace and respond with precise passing is Kurt Warner. Warner did not have the extended elite career but during his prime he was as good a qb as any, including Peyton and Brady. Would I give up a first round pick for him? Absolutely. Normally I would be hesitant to use a high draft pick on an elite qb who is in the declining stage of his career. But even if he was on a downward trajectory he would still be a very good qb with a team that now has a great defense. In this era of playover turnover due to the cap and contract system I would have no problem of going for the gold. When you get a Brees you get someone who is a training fanatic. He is the opposite of Orton who did no training while contemplating retiring. The Bills traded away a first pick to move up four spots to select Watkins. The selection of that elite receiver has been wasted because the qb is a flaccid player who can't get him the ball. With a Brees type qb playing behind a below average line its performance is instantly elevated because he quickly gets rid of the ball and he smartly and instincly moves around in the pocket to avoid the pressure and keep the play alive. The running game is improved because the defense can't stack the line because a credible passing game exists. A Brees type qb, even a diminished Brees, elevates every aspect of our offense. Compare that to Orton who diminishes every aspect of the offense because of his gross ineptitude. After watching the putrid play of Orton I would do anything to acquire a respectable qb. Brees at the tail end of his career, even at a diminished state, would still be a breath of fresh air and give the battered fan base an opportunity to watch football games with a pro .level of offensive play. I'll repeat it again and again if Orton is brought back to start next season the front office en masse should be fired for malfeasance. This season with its realistic playoff hopes has been squandered because the organization wasn't capable of finding a below average starting qb to match its terrific defense. What a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I guess one of my biggest points is that he has looked pretty human if not abysmal at times, on the road. I don't think that's just the rah-rah crowd action helping him out. He plays far better in a dome, and Buffalo ain't getting one during his career timeline. And to boot, Buffalo weather is not going to be kind to an older man's arm. We saw how Brady and Manning played come winter last season, and they certainly looked closer to ordinary. None of this takes away from the fact that he is having an all-time great career, I just think Buffalo is not a place that would play to his strengths, as a location. I'd be happy to be wrong and he would be a huge upgrade over what we have, but as you say, the point is a bit moot. i think thats a fair concern. not only does he have 8 home games in a dome, but also @atlanta, and every nfc division has atleast 1 dome team so hes often playing 10+ indoors. that said, hes actually sporting a higher completion percentage, a full yard per attempt more, and a better TD:INT ratio on the road this year. certainly not the norm, as there has been a drop the last few years but with a qb rating of 84 on the road last year, 90.1 the year before, 100.7 the year before, 91.8 (and better road than home) and 98.1 dating back to the super bowl. With 106.6 on the road this year. its not a greatly meaningful stat, but i think those numbers would surprise many given the saints road reputation. in his 5 games under 32 degrees (lifted these stats from an article that popped up pre-philly playoff game last year as i was curious) 61 percent, 260.8 yards per game, 10 touchdowns and six interceptions. the philly stats arent wildly out of line to add and how often would he play in the elements? of course, its not happening - but i think its an interesting chat on a player ive obviously gotten to follow pretty closely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm a bit split on it. He's better than what we have, but it could also cause us to lose out on a franchise player... hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm a bit split on it. He's better than what we have, but it could also cause us to lose out on a franchise player... hm. I think the argument is that he can be a franchise player for 3 years at min. If you were going to get 3 years of elite performance from a first round pick, guaranteed, you should take that option even if it doesn't yield dividends over 10 years. You can hardly project over 5 years for a draft pick given FA. The question would likely be, how much more than a first-rounder would it take, to get Brees. It simply ain't happening. That REALLY only happens when the well-regarded, groomed replacement is in waiting or even finding some onfield success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I guess one of my biggest points is that he has looked pretty human if not abysmal at times, on the road. I don't think that's just the rah-rah crowd action helping him out. He plays far better in a dome, and Buffalo ain't getting one during his career timeline. And to boot, Buffalo weather is not going to be kind to an older man's arm. We saw how Brady and Manning played come winter last season, and they certainly looked closer to ordinary. None of this takes away from the fact that he is having an all-time great career, I just think Buffalo is not a place that would play to his strengths, as a location. I'd be happy to be wrong and he would be a huge upgrade over what we have, but as you say, the point is a bit moot. That's not true at all this year. The Saints have been way, way better on the road than at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I'm a bit split on it. He's better than what we have, but it could also cause us to lose out on a franchise player... hm. in a heartbeat youd trade a late 20s pick that is a 4 year contract with a question mark for a guy thats a pretty good slam dunk to play very well at the most important position for 3 years. the problem is the saints would have no reason to do it. Edited December 17, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I guess what I am struggling with is why people don't think that you could get 3 good years out of him? We would absolutely win a Super Bowl in the next 3 years of he was the QB. Brees is 2 years younger than Brady (and has more yards & Tds in his career). He may have his 4th straight 5,000 yard season and will have 35+ TDs. What is the hesitation?!? Just for some perspective Ben Roethlisberger has already surpassed his career best season with 4,400 yards and 29 TDs. Edited December 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's not true at all this year. The Saints have been way, way better on the road than at home. Other than the Carolina and Cincy games, they've been pretty competitive at home. But I digress. In one season I think it's harder to evaluate. Especially one where you play the likes of Tampa and a broken Chicago team on the road. Their reverse-split against Carolina is also strange. I guess what I am struggling with is why people don't think that you could get 3 God years out of him? We would absolutely win a Super Bowl in the next 3 years of he was the QB. Brees is 2 years younger than Brady (and has more yards & Tds in his career). He may have his 4th straight 5,000 yard season and will have 35+ TDs. What is the hesitation?!? Just for some perspective Ben Roethlisberger has already surpassed his career best season with 4,400 yards and 29 TDs. I like Brees, but God is a bit much. Although it might take that to get the Bills a Super Bowl win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I like Brees, but God is a bit much. Although it might take that to get the Bills a Super Bowl win. With God Brees and St Doug we could not go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Other than the Carolina and Cincy games, they've been pretty competitive at home. But I digress. In one season I think it's harder to evaluate. Especially one where you play the likes of Tampa and a broken Chicago team on the road. Their reverse-split against Carolina is also strange. I like Brees, but God is a bit much. Although it might take that to get the Bills a Super Bowl win. They also lost at home to a pretty good Baltimore team and a bad SF team. They have lost 4 straight home games and are 3-4 in the dome. It doesn't make a ton of sense but they have been bad there. Ha ha, whoops. Obviously the Saints would laugh in your face if you called to ask for Brees so it's a meaningless conversation. It is the easiest of no brainers though. This is Manning to Denver minus the neck injury. I actually think that Brees is the same age now as when Peyton went to Denver. The Bills team is way better than what he walked into in Denver (they have since improved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 in a heartbeat youd trade a late 20s pick that is a 4 year contract with a question mark for a guy thats a pretty good slam dunk to play very well at the most important position for 3 years. the problem is the saints would have no reason to do it. They have lots of reasons to do it. 1) According to sources within NO, he is showing signs of aging with decreased arm strength, etc. and that they believe he has cost them a couple games this year with timely interceptions. In other words, they believe he is on the decline. 2) NO is believed to be aiming to go after a QB in the draft early on. 3) They are significantly over the cap and keeping Brees is a big reason for that. 4) They may make the calculation that NO doesn't have a realistic opportunity to win a Super Bowl in the next couple years and just decide to rebuild. It's ok if you don't believe that they won't trade him but to say that NO reason has No reason to do so is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 With God Brees and St Doug we could not go wrong. Breesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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