Hey, we won!

[YoloinOhio]

In recent past, the Bills have played poorly in many "easy win" games at home & lost. Below-average showing today but won. Many teams - yes, good ones with good QBs and coaches and OLs - did not.

[Augie]

 

the mark of a winner is the mark in the win column.

Oh, I DO like that. And I'm going to steal it from you (or whoever you stole it from). If you win despite playing poorly in may ways, you still WIN. If we mess up and lose due to the same mistakes, feel free to complain (and be judged on your reasonableness). If we win, I am happy.

[TheBrownBear]

It wasn't pretty but it was a win. More than seattle can say today.

[Ohiostyle]

My guess is that a lot of the bitchin is because they didn't cover the spread.

 

I won't lie, it has me a little down!

[Buftex]

Funny, when EJ won a lot of you were starting thread after thread about how EJ sucks. But when Orton sucks and we win you are all pissed if people feel like Orton isn't very good either and Hackett is still a terrible OC.

 

Try being consistent for once...QB play and OL were atrocious most the day today against a bad team. If it continues, and has for 3 weeks now, we won't win many more games. Its a problem, our offense is not very good and showing no signs of getting better.

Two things Dawg, with all due respect:

Of all the posters here, to take Promo The Robot to task is kinda odd..he is probably the most optimistic poster here, and I rarely, if ever, see him bash any Bills players. This place has been so miserable as of late, I admit I could only stomach so many "EJ sucks" threads, but I would be pretty surprised if PTR was piling on him...

 

Secondly, as ugly as things may have been today (and I say this as an EJ guy), do you honestly think this offens has shown "no signs of getting better" since Orton has been at the helm?

 

He has not been perfect, by any stretch, but he has made dozens of throws that EJ couldn't or wouldn't make, in the past three weeks. The run game has struggled, the O-line play has been atrocious...yet after 3 weeks, Orton is 2-1 as a starter, and has nearly doubled the productivity of the passing game in that time...have some perspective.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Buftex

[Jim in Anchorage]

I never feel like this but the bar has been raised. This were wins we celebrated under Jauron. This SHOULD be a playoff team. We shouldn't have to rally to beat a terrible Vikes team.

 

Our talent is playoff caliber but out coaches, QB, and oline aren't. Those are real problems and to just ignore them because the Vikes are terrible is a mistake. George Freakin' Edwards shut us down. That's a major concern going forward.

 

I hate not being a homer anymore but we shouldn't be happy with this. This was one of the worst Ws I've experienced. This team shouldn't have to have victories like that. Expect more and stop settling.

God you must be fun to watch a game with.

[Bills Fan since '64]

I would also say there there is no such thing as an ugly win. They are uniquely beautiful, in the way that they cause the opposing team to freak out in special ways.

Reminds me of some advice my father gave me once about women

[nucci]

Sorry it wasn't pretty. Say a couple of hail marys if you feel guilty about it.

Winning isn't important. It's how you play that matters.

[Wayne Cubed]

I never feel like this but the bar has been raised. This were wins we celebrated under Jauron. This SHOULD be a playoff team. We shouldn't have to rally to beat a terrible Vikes team.

 

Our talent is playoff caliber but out coaches, QB, and oline aren't. Those are real problems and to just ignore them because the Vikes are terrible is a mistake. George Freakin' Edwards shut us down. That's a major concern going forward.

 

I hate not being a homer anymore but we shouldn't be happy with this. This was one of the worst Ws I've experienced. This team shouldn't have to have victories like that. Expect more and stop settling.

 

Shouldn't have to rally, so "any given Sunday" means nothing to you? Should the Seahawks, the Super Bowl Champs, have to rally against a terrible St. Louis team, who by the way lost to the Vikings? Should the Detroit Lions, the #1 defense, have had to come back against a very weak (this year at least) Saints team? Should the Patriots* have had to block a field goal to win against a 1-5 Jest team? What about the same Jest team that was a pick-6 play away from possibly tie against the Broncos? Any team can win, any week. It happens all the time. It's not just a saying. But of course, now that you're a "realist", that doesn't matter right?

 

Do you hate being a "homer" because they aren't winning the way you thought they should? Because this is a pretty sad way to react after a win. If EJ was the QB behind center and they won in this fashion, I'm sure you'd have no problem with the W.

 

Also lets not forget 2 WR's fumbled the ball and the 2 starting RB's went out, one of them being a very vocal leader for the team. Was it a pretty win? No. Do they need to improve the OL play? Yes. But I would never not be happy about a Bills win. Especially after the injuries and mistakes that were made.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I can see if we cheated and won by a FG. We didn't. Had to go 80 yards in 3 minutes with two time outs and the Two-Minute Warning. Had to get a big 4th and 20... And then a TD was mandatory (actually there was a second left, so two plays they could have had).

 

The last drive was impressive and that's all it took to win. It was impressive and pretty @ the end. Ugly is squeaking by with a win while cheating and kicking a FG.

[Alphadawg7]

Two things Dawg, with all due respect:

Of all the posters here, to take Promo The Robot to task is kinda odd..he is probably the most optimistic poster here, and I rarely, if ever, see him bash any Bills players. This place has been so miserable as of late, I admit I could only stomach so many "EJ sucks" threads, but I would be pretty surprised if PTR was piling on him...

 

Secondly, as ugly as things may have been today (and I say this as an EJ guy), do you honestly think this offens has shown "no signs of getting better" since Orton has been at the helm?

 

He has not been perfect, by any stretch, but he has made dozens of throws that EJ couldn't or wouldn't make, in the past three weeks. The run game has struggled, the O-line play has been atrocious...yet after 3 weeks, Orton is 2-1 as a starter, and has nearly doubled the productivity of the passing game in that time...have some perspective.

 

No worries, fair post:

 

First, wasn't taking Promo to task...if you read my post it was addressed to the thread. Just hit reply on the topic out of habit.

 

Second, I do not feel the offense is that much better. Its better in some areas and worse in others, and I do not think its good enough yet. I don't care if its Orton or EJ back there, I just want to win. Facts are that in the Detroit game, we lost it and no one told the Detroit Kicker. Our offense was not good at all that day. Orton took advantage of 3rd chance late in the game, and I was thrilled he did and tip my hat to him. But at the end of the day, the overall play of the offense was not good enough if we want to win 9 or 10 games given our remaining schedule.

 

Against NE, the offense was also wildly inconsistent and a game ending INT sealed the loss. Yesterday against Minny, we lose that game against 95% of the league with that effort.

 

In fact, the last good offensive efforts were week 1 and week 2. Since then, our offense has struggled mightily every week with EJ and Orton and our OL has continued to get worse on top of that.

 

Does anyone actually think yesterdays offense was good enough to beat teams on our tougher part of the schedule? The frustrating part is that if you criticize the effort you are now labeled a Orton Hater and a EJ Lover. Its stupid. There is no fair discussion going on anymore. Its not about Orton vs EJ, at least not for me. Its about can this team make the playoffs for me and what needs to happen to do so. And right now, this offense is not playing good enough to get us there given our remaining schedule.

 

I SINCERELY hope it changes and Orton can stop turning the ball over and find some consistency. For that to happen, our OL needs to get its crap together and Hackett needs to get his head out of his a** too. We have guys dropping too many passes on offense too. This offense just can't get out of its own way, and its a problem.

[Buftex]

No worries, fair post:

 

First, wasn't taking Promo to task...if you read my post it was addressed to the thread. Just hit reply on the topic out of habit.

 

Second, I do not feel the offense is that much better. Its better in some areas and worse in others, and I do not think its good enough yet. I don't care if its Orton or EJ back there, I just want to win. Facts are that in the Detroit game, we lost it and no one told the Detroit Kicker. Our offense was not good at all that day. Orton took advantage of 3rd chance late in the game, and I was thrilled he did and tip my hat to him. But at the end of the day, the overall play of the offense was not good enough if we want to win 9 or 10 games given our remaining schedule.

 

Against NE, the offense was also wildly inconsistent and a game ending INT sealed the loss. Yesterday against Minny, we lose that game against 95% of the league with that effort.

 

In fact, the last good offensive efforts were week 1 and week 2. Since then, our offense has struggled mightily every week with EJ and Orton and our OL has continued to get worse on top of that.

 

Does anyone actually think yesterdays offense was good enough to beat teams on our tougher part of the schedule? The frustrating part is that if you criticize the effort you are now labeled a Orton Hater and a EJ Lover. Its stupid. There is no fair discussion going on anymore. Its not about Orton vs EJ, at least not for me. Its about can this team make the playoffs for me and what needs to happen to do so. And right now, this offense is not playing good enough to get us there given our remaining schedule.

 

I SINCERELY hope it changes and Orton can stop turning the ball over and find some consistency. For that to happen, our OL needs to get its crap together and Hackett needs to get his head out of his a** too. We have guys dropping too many passes on offense too. This offense just can't get out of its own way, and its a problem.

 

I get your point...and I admit, I was miserable for most of the game yesterday, as I have been many Sundays over the last 15 years or so, watching this team. But, you say you don't care who is taking snaps, EJ or Orton... again I say this as somebody who has been pretty supportive of EJ...I can't help but feel the Bills might very well be 2-5 right now if he had been left in there. I think the evidence is pretty compelling that EJ was not getting the job done, with constant pressure.

 

Through no fault of EJ's or Ortons, the O-line is playing horribly, and the run game, even before Freddie and CJ was not really doing a hell of a lot...I would argue, despite his problems, Orton has been the difference in both of the last two wins...and I don't think he lost the New England game for us. For all those saying Orton is Fitzpatrick V.2, I might agree..but an improved V.2,who, two of the last three weeks has been able to finish.

 

Not arguing that Orton is the guy the Bills should be buidling their future around (or that EJ isn't) but he is actually using the WR's we have and winning games with them. I can't blame Orton for the failings of the run game...but he is getting the job done. The Bills are moving the ball veritically...something they haven't done consistantly, in a few seasons...people are acting as if they are ashamed of the way the Bills have won games...how many games have the Bills lost the last 15 years, in the fashion that the Lions and Vikings lost to them the last few weeks? Countless. If you follow any team, week in, week out, event the "great teams", you will find that they all win a few games every year where they take advantage of the failures of their oppenant.

 

If this was the Broncos, or the Patriots or one of the other perenials, I could understand the fans being so miserable after a loss... but everybody having the collective mind-set that the Bills should be an elite team is silly...until they actually start winning games...no matter how they do it. Take some satisfaction that, perhaps, Watkins is the real deal, and we have a QB who is using him...it is a start.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

This win was quite ugly. What bothered me more than anything else was watching the quite offensive offensive line pretty much collapse every time Orton went back to pass. As he dropped back, so did the line; no hold your ground, no push. Watch the tape. Lucky they didn't have more sacks.

 

The offensive line was nearly as offensive as the officials and their two blatant pass interference non-calls.

[jsswansonjr]

They played will enough to win and that is what counts. But if they do not play better against the tougher opponents then the outcome will be different. Hey, lets enjoy the win. We will find out soon enough just how good this team is with Orton at the helm.

[Whites Bay]

This is almost crazy. Personally, I LOVE a win! When you think that all of us wait all LONG off-season for what has recently been only 6-7 per season, HOLY CRAP! They're like Hen's Teeth! This having been said, I'm growing deeply concerned about two things (both related). First, the O-Line is just-this-side of a dumpster fire. But second is more disconcerting. So Marrone's ready to bring out the pitchforks and torches this week, and knock over the china and crystal on the O-Line to get more productivity out of it. Here's the big question - it's not like these guys aren't motivated to do better, and it's not like we have scads of diamonds-in-the-rough sitting around waiting for their time to start on the O-Line. The coaching staff has already evaluated all these people, right? I just have to wonder (reaching for my collar like Rodney Dangerfield used to do...)...do the Bills even have the talent on the roster to FIX the O-Line problem? And brother, if they do, they'd better do it fast. The Jets may be a TRUE dumpster fire, but at home against THAT D-Line? THAT'S what keeps me on edge. I love what Orton is doing. He's making plays that EJ is just not capable of making at this point in his career, and I hope he's soaking up all the pointers he can. But that O-Line against the Jets D-Line this weekend is NOT going to be a good thing.

[Magox]

Orton is better than EJ, our O-line stinks, Hackett Stinks, we have a good stable of backs, Wr's are good and the defense is top five and we have a winning record.

[Alphadawg7]

I get your point...and I admit, I was miserable for most of the game yesterday, as I have been many Sundays over the last 15 years or so, watching this team. But, you say you don't care who is taking snaps, EJ or Orton... again I say this as somebody who has been pretty supportive of EJ...I can't help but feel the Bills might very well be 2-5 right now if he had been left in there. I think the evidence is pretty compelling that EJ was not getting the job done, with constant pressure.

 

Through no fault of EJ's or Ortons, the O-line is playing horribly, and the run game, even before Freddie and CJ was not really doing a hell of a lot...I would argue, despite his problems, Orton has been the difference in both of the last two wins...and I don't think he lost the New England game for us. For all those saying Orton is Fitzpatrick V.2, I might agree..but an improved V.2,who, two of the last three weeks has been able to finish.

 

Not arguing that Orton is the guy the Bills should be buidling their future around (or that EJ isn't) but he is actually using the WR's we have and winning games with them. I can't blame Orton for the failings of the run game...but he is getting the job done. The Bills are moving the ball veritically...something they haven't done consistantly, in a few seasons...people are acting as if they are ashamed of the way the Bills have won games...how many games have the Bills lost the last 15 years, in the fashion that the Lions and Vikings lost to them the last few weeks? Countless. If you follow any team, week in, week out, event the "great teams", you will find that they all win a few games every year where they take advantage of the failures of their oppenant.

 

If this was the Broncos, or the Patriots or one of the other perenials, I could understand the fans being so miserable after a loss... but everybody having the collective mind-set that the Bills should be an elite team is silly...until they actually start winning games...no matter how they do it. Take some satisfaction that, perhaps, Watkins is the real deal, and we have a QB who is using him...it is a start.

 

I dont disagree with anything you just said. My thing is that this team has enough talent on it overall to be better than we are showing. Offense has been the achilles heal and I have yet to see anything that makes me feel like its getting better. With EJ, I still think the kid has potential long term. His biggest problem was that he played not to fail instead of to win. I don't think he was ready for the level of pressure on him given the talent on this roster and the expectations that came with it to finally break the playoff streak. Orton is better suited to play right now and hopefully it can show EJ how to play with more confidence.

 

However, even with Orton this offense is still stalling more often than not in all facets. Receivers dropping balls, penalties, inept run game, bad sacks by Orton and his cleats made of cement, inconsistent throws, and too many total turnovers. It must improve, but Hackett and the OL are not doing anyone any favors thats for sure.